Should we ban pornography?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press"

There are synonymical words.

Speech is not expression. If you wish to convey the message that you dislike them, you can say "You suck!" or you can express that through throwing rotten tomatoes at them.

Rather different.

Rotten tomatoes = assault. You are no longer keeping your hands and property to yourself.

Porn, on the other hand, is voluntarily submitted, and voluntarily accessed.

[Topoliani]

Considering it leads people to murder, rape, steal, etc. in the name of God, then no it doesn't.

All those would be a sin.......you can't justifiably do any of that "in the name of God (swt)".

Let me put it in a different way.

"Going by the advice of some despot in the sky, whose existence is unproven, is superior to checking all the circumstances and making a balanced decision".

Sounds sensible?

"Sky despot"....that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of God (swt) in the first place. A "balanced decision" is irrelevant, God's (swt) directives are greater than ours.

You're not helping your point, you do realize that?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

That's still pretty vague.

What sort of regulations are we talking about here?

Measures to ensure diseases do not spread. Bans on certain types like incest and bestiality. Minimum age to star in a porn video. That type of stuff.

Where does that leave hentai?

[Petrolheadia]

speaking from the perspective that wage labour is inherently coercive

If it was so easy to make a profit off a company, nobody would be doing wage labour.

Just my own 2 cents.

[The Batavia]

- it's basically a form of rape, because actresses are coercied into pornography.

Hentai doesn't involve actresses at all. Or are you counting artists as actresses and fans asking for new content as rape?

Oh haven't seen that one before lmao.

[The Parkus Empire]

The except is not really arbitrary, anymore than the exception other countries have for hate speech.

I don't see how porn is like hate speech.

They're both excluded from free speech protection based on their being seen both as offensive and lacking content. That latter especially cinches the point with porn, which is not seen as expressing opinion.

[The Slytherin]

Measures to ensure diseases do not spread. Bans on certain types like incest and bestiality. Minimum age to star in a porn video. That type of stuff.

Where does that leave hentai?

No, I wouldn’t ban hentai.

[Aillyria]

- it encourages men to treat women as objects (and often even worse).

Define "as objects."

- it's basically a form of rape, because actresses are coercied into pornography.

Hentai doesn't involve actresses at all. Or are you counting artists as actresses and fans asking for new content as rape?

He means objects as in "fuck toys" and objects for ones own gratification.

[Xelsis]

Speech is not expression. If you wish to convey the message that you dislike them, you can say "You suck!" or you can express that through throwing rotten tomatoes at them.

Rather different.

Rotten tomatoes = assault. You are no longer keeping your hands and property to yourself.

Porn, on the other hand, is voluntarily submitted, and voluntarily accessed.

And now you are making an argument on the basis of the item-and not on the basis of "Freedom of expression"-which is rather the point.

There is nothing in the Constitution which bans pornography, nor anything that on an actual reading of the words provides it protection. It, like many things, is left to the states, where you can make the various arguments for its legality.

[Sir Cumberbun of Gloucester]

-Porn wrecks your libido

Need a source for that. I don't seem to have this problem.

I think there was a piece on TIME Magazine on this issue. I couldn't seem to dig it up online, but I did find a relevant psychology today piece on the problem.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/tech-support/201407/what-porn-does-intimacy

TLDR, it says porn can ruin long-term relationships and lead people to cheat on their partner.

Now, granted, I'm certainly not for a Fundamentalist Biblical crackdown on porn (kindof like what the Morons Mormons are trying to do in Utah) but I think one can take a reasonable stance against pornography.

It's like most adult things; if a person is exposed to it at a young age in an unhealthy way it can seriously fuck up that person's views and expectations of sex later in life. Just my opinion on the matter, based on some personal observations.

There is also this if anyone is wondering;
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/

Granted, it's not 100% concrete (what is) but it does seem to indicate that porn can have a negative effect on male sexual performance.

[The Parkus Empire]

Nowhere. But there is a little more to American law than just the words of the Constitution.

Correct, but you reference the Constitution, so presumably we are talking about Constitutional law. The meaning and intent of the Constitution is determined by the judiciary, which has never read it to cover pornography.

[Petrolheadia]

A "balanced decision" is irrelevant, God's (swt) directives are greater than ours.

If he exists.

IF.

[USS Monitor]

Then to fix the problem you legalize it, regulate it, and punish those who break the regulations

Let's hope the regulations include the sex workers getting paid enough then, cuz drugs ain't cheap.

Helping drug addicts buy more drugs is not helping them. With sex workers that take drugs, usually the drug problem came first.

[Petrolheadia]

Define "as objects."



Hentai doesn't involve actresses at all. Or are you counting artists as actresses and fans asking for new content as rape?

He means objects as in "fuck toys" and objects for ones own gratification.

Assholes will always exist.

And guess what a guy who treats women as "fuck toys" does without porn...

[Vulturret]

Nowhere. But there is a little more to American law than just the words of the Constitution.

Correct, but you reference the Constitution, so presumably we are talking about Constitutional law. The meaning and intent of the Constitution is determined by the judiciary, which has never read it to cover pornography.

Yes, other laws don't have as much standing as the constitution, it is the top document, but this is true the judiciary has never interpreted anything in the constitution to cover pornography.

[Kenmoria]

Considering it leads people to murder, rape, steal, etc. in the name of God, then no it doesn't.

All those would be a sin.......you can't justifiably do any of that "in the name of God (swt)".

Let me put it in a different way.

"Going by the advice of some despot in the sky, whose existence is unproven, is superior to checking all the circumstances and making a balanced decision".

Sounds sensible?

"Sky despot"....that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of God (swt) in the first place. A "balanced decision" is irrelevant, God's (swt) directives are greater than ours.

Taking something there is no logical way to know exists and probably doesn't against actual values hardwired via evolution into the human brain results in a clear winner. The reasons for allowing pornography are based upon moral values that result from human instincts, which exist. The reasons for disallowing it, at least those that come from most of the religious posters against it here, are based upon something we have no way of knowing is real. The conclusion that I draw from this is that pornography should definitely be legal.

[The New California Republic]

God's (swt) directives are greater than ours.

Countering any and all arguments with this doesn't prove anything in your favor. Using "God said so" as a rubber stamp reply to criticism isn't going to cut it for most people on this forum, more reasoned arguments are needed.

[Zanera]

Oh goddamnit. Now I gotta go flag down an uninvolved mod.

And I can't do anything with it cos I already posted in the thread.

This is why Mods should be aloof.

[Sir Cumberbun of Gloucester]

God's (swt) directives are greater than ours.

Countering any and all arguments with this doesn't prove anything in your favor. Using "God said so" as a rubber stamp reply to criticism isn't going to cut it for most people on this forum, more reasoned arguments are needed.

^^This. Literally any bad idea ever can be justified by a "God said so" justification.

[Topoliani]

Countering any and all arguments with this doesn't prove anything in your favor. Using "God said so" as a rubber stamp reply to criticism isn't going to cut it for most people on this forum, more reasoned arguments are needed.

^^This. Literally any bad idea ever can be justified by a "God said so" justification.

Everyone should give me 100 dollars an hour, because God said so

[Sir Cumberbun of Gloucester]

Wait, important question no one seems to be answering;

People who want porn banned, have you ever watched porn?

[Kenmoria]

Countering any and all arguments with this doesn't prove anything in your favor. Using "God said so" as a rubber stamp reply to criticism isn't going to cut it for most people on this forum, more reasoned arguments are needed.

^^This. Literally any bad idea ever can be justified by a "God said so" justification.

I completely agree. Religion cannot and should not be used as the sole argument for anything, particularly decisions which would affect millions of people, like pornography.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Then to fix the problem you legalize it, regulate it, and punish those who break the regulations

Let's hope the regulations include the sex workers getting paid enough then, cuz drugs ain't cheap.

Requiring clients wear protection can reduce the spread of STDs, if you're talking about medical drugs. If recreational, there are plenty of other reasons for prostitution than addiction, and plenty of lawful walks of life associated with drug use. I'd be more worried about coked-up stockbrokers than coked-up hookers. Guys aren't known for high standards when it comes to casual sex.

As for wages... minimum wage is $10 an hour. Do you really think any client would last an hour if he tried?

[Petrolheadia]

^^This. Literally any bad idea ever can be justified by a "God said so" justification.

Everyone should give me 100 dollars an hour, because God said so

I'm going to drive a Buick Estate through my local supermarket, because God said so.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Considering it leads people to murder, rape, steal, etc. in the name of God, then no it doesn't.

All those would be a sin.......you can't justifiably do any of that "in the name of God (swt)".

[/quote]
The Qur'an is kind of wishy-washy about that one.

You're going to need something better than religion to go on.