Separating urban and rural America.

[Kubra]

Republicans voted for a guy who smeared people crossing the border to flee poverty as a bunch of rapists. It's FAR too late for de-escalation.

Which he never did. Trump never said anything against legal immigration. In fact, with his support to reform immigration, he tries to modernize it for a world where menial workers will become obsolete.

Illegal immigration is a crime, in every country of the world. You do not have the right to just pick a place and go, such a thing is deserved, that is why any nation with a notion of sense has an immigration system organized on quality.
The RAISE act for instance would have been just that, as it would focus mainly on foreign STEM workers, which should, at all times, have priority over others, due to the need for them. Instead, the current US system has "lotteries".

Want to flee poverty? Show the world that you don't deserve to starve. Show your talents and your usefulness. But if you can't even speak the language of the country you wish to move into, well, it's not that country's worry that you will starve.

I am in full agreement with this. Until Krampusland shows talent or usefulness, he ought to starve.

[The Conez Imperium]

Which he never did. Trump never said anything against legal immigration. In fact, with his support to reform immigration, he tries to modernize it for a world where menial workers will become obsolete.

Illegal immigration is a crime, in every country of the world. You do not have the right to just pick a place and go, such a thing is deserved, that is why any nation with a notion of sense has an immigration system organized on quality.
The RAISE act for instance would have been just that, as it would focus mainly on foreign STEM workers, which should, at all times, have priority over others, due to the need for them. Instead, the current US system has "lotteries".

Want to flee poverty? Show the world that you don't deserve to starve. Show your talents and your usefulness. But if you can't even speak the language of the country you wish to move into, well, it's not that country's worry that you will starve.

I am in full agreement with this. Until Krampusland shows talent or usefulness, he ought to starve.

If we are in full agreement with the status quo, we must also factor in time. I hope Krampusland doesn't starve to death within 5 years which could be the average waiting time to receive your visa. No guarantee you'll get a visa too since green cards are capped to ~200 000 people per year?

Honestly, most of the debate about illegal immigration is such a farce because people forget there's differences between refugees and immigration.

[Kubra]

I am in full agreement with this. Until Krampusland shows talent or usefulness, he ought to starve.

If we are in full agreement with the status quo, we must also factor in time. I hope Krampusland doesn't starve to death within 5 years which could be the average waiting time to receive your visa. No guarantee you'll get a visa too since green cards are capped to ~200 000 people per year?

Honestly, most of the debate about illegal immigration is such a farce because people forget there's differences between refugees and immigration.

He could always simply get his visa sooner. Somehow or other.
In any case, if he can't last the wait time, it's obvious his talents and usefulness simply weren't up to scratch.

[The Conez Imperium]

If we are in full agreement with the status quo, we must also factor in time. I hope Krampusland doesn't starve to death within 5 years which could be the average waiting time to receive your visa. No guarantee you'll get a visa too since green cards are capped to ~200 000 people per year?

Honestly, most of the debate about illegal immigration is such a farce because people forget there's differences between refugees and immigration.

He could always simply get his visa sooner. Somehow or other.
In any case, if he can't last the wait time, it's obvious his talents and usefulness simply weren't up to scratch.

Actually, one idea suggested to solve rural migration is to have immigrants populate rural areas. I like this idea although it is difficult to implement.

[Kubra]

He could always simply get his visa sooner. Somehow or other.
In any case, if he can't last the wait time, it's obvious his talents and usefulness simply weren't up to scratch.

Actually, one idea suggested to solve rural migration is to have immigrants populate rural areas. I like this idea although it is difficult to implement.

Now now, seriousness is not part of the fun
that said, moving about rural canada I can say that immigrants are more than willing to populate outlying areas, and there is certainly roles to fill that cannot otherwise be filled. It's not necessarily difficult to implement, so long as it's restricted to settlements (towns and such) with at least a population of 20.

[Sovaal]

you seem to think the rest of the world cares as well... which... realllllly, they don't. if anything they would support rural america just because there's more goods to be bought from them... textiles, mineral wealth, if nothing else they can just sell excess crops.

keep in mind, i'm a moderate, i don't neccesarily like trump in office. as a caveat to that, i DO think between him and hillary he was a (VERY) marginally better choice. he wears his heart on his sleeve, and he's not quite devious enough to do any damage. Clinton was... well disturbingly adept at lying her way out of things. so of the two... trump is the one i'm less displeased about. if i had my way both parties would be abolished and their beurecrats scattered to the four winds and then new members would be elected with the previous parties being banned from running. is this ever gonna happen? fuck no. the current system just wouldn't even consider allowing that to happen. it's costly, it loses them political clout, and it greatly weakens the nation while it's happening... admittedly the last one they seem not to care about if they make money from it... but my political views aside, i think that this concept is poorly thought of and would result in a second civil war, this time with the rural's likely winning. they won't be able to field as many men, but a lot of military vets are from the south, midwest, etc. only about 14% of recruits come from big cities. and a whopping 40% come from the american south alone. so assuming the draft is instituted during the war, a metric ton of troops, already trained and capable, are going to go into whatever army is amassed. whereas the cities are going to have to 1) train troops. 2) train them as quickly as possible. 3) find space TO train them. 4) somehow get the industry and infrastructure to provide a military capable of defending it's nation enough shells, food, guns, ships, uniforms, planes, etc etc etc.

Tl;DR this idea is so misinformed on how the world and infrastructure works that i actually want to cry.

Leaving aside the ridiculousness of the whole scenario, how are the rurals going to support any army at all?

Armies are expensive institutions. Agriculture and resource extraction are not great sources of wealth to begin with. And all of the vital industrial capacity is going to be in urban areas. Concentrations of capital require concentrations of people, and that means cities. Oil refineries are all clustered near urban areas. Industry, from the most basic machine tools up to high technology manufacturing, are all concentrated in cities. Chemical production is concentrated in cities, vital to the production of munitions.

Rural America may provide the soldiers, but they can't provide anything else that makes armies function.

Indeed. However, any nation larger then a city state needs its agricultural areas. Simply put the cities need the country side and the country side needs the cities.

[Zanera]

Leaving aside the ridiculousness of the whole scenario, how are the rurals going to support any army at all?

Armies are expensive institutions. Agriculture and resource extraction are not great sources of wealth to begin with. And all of the vital industrial capacity is going to be in urban areas. Concentrations of capital require concentrations of people, and that means cities. Oil refineries are all clustered near urban areas. Industry, from the most basic machine tools up to high technology manufacturing, are all concentrated in cities. Chemical production is concentrated in cities, vital to the production of munitions.

Rural America may provide the soldiers, but they can't provide anything else that makes armies function.

Indeed. However, any nation larger then a city state needs its agricultural areas. Simply put the cities need the country side and the country side needs the cities.

>destroy America and its economy and affect the global markets and (probably) political stability because all of these people probably disagree with me
This is the second thread like this.

[Sovaal]

Indeed. However, any nation larger then a city state needs its agricultural areas. Simply put the cities need the country side and the country side needs the cities.

>destroy America and its economy and affect the global markets and (probably) political stability because all of these people probably disagree with me
This is the second thread like this.

I know. Next we’ll start seeing threads calling for Star Wars fans to jihad against trekkies.

[Zanera]

>destroy America and its economy and affect the global markets and (probably) political stability because all of these people probably disagree with me
This is the second thread like this.

I know. Next we’ll start seeing threads calling for Star Wars fans to jihad against trekkies.

Meh...leave the Trekkies to their technobabble. They'll destroy themselves in circular technological insanity.

[Sovaal]

I know. Next we’ll start seeing threads calling for Star Wars fans to jihad against trekkies.

Meh...leave the Trekkies to their technobabble. They'll destroy themselves in circular technological insanity.

But my quantum telegraphic harmonizer!

[Zanera]

Meh...leave the Trekkies to their technobabble. They'll destroy themselves in circular technological insanity.

But my quantum telegraphic harmonizer!

Go to a museum and go look at your telegraph.

[Krampusland]

But houses are major assets bought with credit. And those mortgages, in the form of mortgage backed securities, are a major part in the modern credit economy. The danger with falling house prices is that it could leave mortgage holders "underwater", owing more on their mortgage than the asset is physically worth. And the depreciation of those assets could have shocks throughout the economy.

It was the collapse in housing prices that precipitated the Great Recession

But the rich will save everything through trickle down economics

Given that the "rich" pay for almost all of the tax revenue of the USA, most food stamps, welfare etc... are in large part already payed for by the "rich".

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Which he never did. Trump never said anything against legal immigration.

And if you'd been paying attention, you'd know I never said he did. "Crossing the border to flee poverty" applies to illegal immigrants as well.

Way to discredit yourself.

Convenient for the "legal vs. illegal" distinction that the laws are so heavily stacked against legal immigration in the first place, though.

[Sovaal]

Which he never did. Trump never said anything against legal immigration.

And if you'd been paying attention, you'd know I never said he did. "Crossing the border to flee poverty" applies to illegal immigrants as well.

Way to discredit yourself.

Convenient for the "legal vs. illegal" distinction that the laws are so heavily stacked against legal immigration in the first place, though.

Doesn’t add any credibility to your idea either.

[Osnil Returns]

Yeah, that's a good question! How come us rural Americans had to suffer for eight years under Obama because of the choices that the urban Americans made?

[Abraxim]

All I am going to say is no terrorist has ever bombed a corn field. I'll stay right here and watch from my TV how great and wonderful urban America is. The only explosions you fond around here are tree stump removals, and the only "riots" are out front of bars at 2am. No-one tells me what I can and cannot say, no-one checks my privilege, hasn't even been a murder in 4 yearz around here. I am free to say any ignoranf thing I want, and at best i get a laugh or someone politely walks away as I would them.

Y'all ruined your own place and I don't feel bad for you. I don't feel bad for the attacks you invited in, or the protests you bother with. I don't feel bad when your stores get caught on fire, and I don't feel bad when you abort your own people.

My sole focus is on my town of 400, helping my own neighbors when they need it, mostly Lady McFarland next door who is housebound and cant get around well. Things are calm and peaceful and life is great.

[Liriena]

All I am going to say is no terrorist has ever bombed a corn field. I'll stay right here and watch from my TV how great and wonderful urban America is. The only explosions you fond around here are tree stump removals, and the only "riots" are out front of bars at 2am. No-one tells me what I can and cannot say, no-one checks my privilege, hasn't even been a murder in 4 years. Y'all ruined your own place and I don't feel bad for you.

Ah, nothing like some dumb geographically-based otherization to make oneself feel proud.

Yeah, that's a good question! How come us rural Americans had to suffer for eight years under Obama because of the choices that the urban Americans made?

What did you rural Americans suffer because of Obama, exactly?

[Ors Might]

All I am going to say is no terrorist has ever bombed a corn field. I'll stay right here and watch from my TV how great and wonderful urban America is. The only explosions you fond around here are tree stump removals, and the only "riots" are out front of bars at 2am. No-one tells me what I can and cannot say, no-one checks my privilege, hasn't even been a murder in 4 years. Y'all ruined your own place and I don't feel bad for you.

Ah, nothing like some dumb geographically-based otherization to make oneself feel proud.

You mean like the entire OP?

[Krampusland]

Which he never did. Trump never said anything against legal immigration.

And if you'd been paying attention, you'd know I never said he did. "Crossing the border to flee poverty" applies to illegal immigrants as well.

Way to discredit yourself.

Convenient for the "legal vs. illegal" distinction that the laws are so heavily stacked against legal immigration in the first place, though.

Oh no, I discredited myself, the horror... Yeah, no.

You are not owed an escape out of poverty. If you are unable to immigrate legally, thought luck, try to do it illegally and you are a criminal.

And that rubish you posted is just silly. If you do not have skills, then what do you complain about? You don't deserve better. You are not entitled to anything but the fair and equal treatment under national and international law.
Further more, waiting for a green card is not that long. Any skilled worker who is not from China or India can get it within 2-3 years. As for those two countries, the waiting period is much larger due to a general overflow of demand for greencards issued by nationals of those two nations.

Yes, the H1B visa program is horrible. What have democrats been doing for instance to help? The republican RAISE act is at least something, as it fully limits immigration to the highly skilled, which is the optimal immigration system for the modern age. The best part of course being that it ends the diversity lottery, a disgusting system where instead of being rewarded for your effort and skill, everything is returned to being random.

[Abraxim]

[quote=Liriena]Ah, nothing like some dumb geographically-based otherization to make oneself feel proud.[/quote]

And this, this sentence here is why your cities fail. Your dismissive of opposing thought, you resort to linguistic criticisms to avoid the point, and you make assumptions that support your narrative.

You managed to say nothing in all of that of relevance either as an attempt to put another down, or because you feel like your sanitized language is somehow superior. It is not. Normal people just do not talk like that. And that is why you lost the election and your cities are terrible places to live. Because instead of offering a legitimate rebuttal, you offered nothing at all. Calling me a Trumptard would have at least said something relevant over this.

Let me try to explain something. If you are unwilling to listen to a differing viewpoint without being dismissive and dodging, you will neveer get anything accomplished. This is why your city protests don't amount to anything. Nobody who has the power to make a change is going to take what witty statement someone wrote on cardboard seriously.

You could have said, "I disagree with your statement, but thanks for offering your perspective". That at least would show you Acually want to understand why others feel differently than you.

This problem, of language and how it is used, is the biggest problem the right has against the left and by implication, Rural America on Urban cities. It is why we do not relate to your perspective, because it is either never offered, never given a chance to be rebutted, or is so vague and confusing people tune out.

And do not be so confident that your side, or your cities have it all figured out for America. Y'all don't. Neither does our side.in my view, what makes this country work is when the Democrats want to take too much, the conservatives reign it back. Somewhere in the middle is the balance. What is that word Liberals love to use to shut down an opposing viewpoint? Oh yeah, it's a straw man argument to blame rural America for the state of American Cities.

[Esrehet]

a

[The Conez Imperium]

What did you rural Americans suffer because of Obama, exactly?

Let's see...

How about a regulatory war on traditional energy sources, harming both industries (farming, forestry, and manufacturing, by increasing input costs for these energy-intensive industries) and individuals (by increasing energy costs for rural Americans, who drive more often)? In addition to that, Obama's energy policies harmed job & wage growth in the energy industry, a key employer in much of rural America.

What about massive land grabs by the federal government, putting vast tracts of land off-limits to economic activity that might boost rural employment?

What about Obama's EPA releasing the personal information of almost 100,000 farmers and ranchers to "environmental activists", leaving them open to harassment and unwanted solicitation?

How about a regulatory assault on agriculture itself, threatening the livelihoods of farmers and ranchers by imposing harmful, hamhanded rules and restrictions on them?

You linked an opinion article that contradicts your claim.

Clarke's testimony doesn't square with two studies on the issue. One by Headwaters Economics concluded that designation of the Grand Staircase did not significantly change economic growth trends seen in surrounding areas, with rising population, jobs and per capita income. Another study, by Utah State University, found that the Grand Staircase declaration had little or no effect on host counties' economic situation.

Anyway, perhaps Obama considered that reducing CO2 emissions was more important than keeping energy prices down?

[Lowell Leber]

Burn down your cities and leave our farms, and your cities will spring up again as if by magic; but destroy our farms and the grass will grow in the streets of every city in the country. William Jennings Bryan

[Galima]

Burn down your cities and leave our farms, and your cities will spring up again as if by magic; but destroy our farms and the grass will grow in the streets of every city in the country. William Jennings Bryan

This quote basically summed up my argument earlier. If you have land, cites can be built, it will take time, but they will be built. In this situation, the city states stand only to lose.

[Galima]

All I am going to say is no terrorist has ever bombed a corn field. I'll stay right here and watch from my TV how great and wonderful urban America is. The only explosions you fond around here are tree stump removals, and the only "riots" are out front of bars at 2am. No-one tells me what I can and cannot say, no-one checks my privilege, hasn't even been a murder in 4 years. Y'all ruined your own place and I don't feel bad for you.

Ah, nothing like some dumb geographically-based ostracisation/secularity/isolationism to make oneself feel proud.

ftfy with three ACTUAL words. As opposed to ... Otherization... Kinda goes with Abraxims comment on Sanitized language... Personally I think he's being far longer to your than is necessary, as even that makes it sound as if it's... Well intelligent. Otherization sounds like a word designed to be understood by even the lowest common denominator as "bad", without really saying anything.