Separating urban and rural America.

[Sovaal]

So again, you want to punish every rural American for something you see as a wrong, and in the process punish city dwellers as well. Sounds like guilt by association to me.

Not under any valid definition of the phrase. Nice try, though.

So economic and societal collapse for voting for the wrong guy isn't punshiment tuan? Being "forced to fax the consequences" isn't a punishment? Nice try there.

[San Lumen]

They got rid of the tax incentives for home ownership and other tax incentives that many urban areas benefit from.

As much as I was aware, those incentives only boosted people who could already buy a house to buy an even bigger one instead. Do correct me if I am wrong?

The bill double deductions and child-credit, as well as lowered rates. Also, I did read that it will cause house prices to drop for a few percent (depending on the area). Please, seriously, correct me if I am wrong.

wrong. Those tax deductions were for home ownership. Having deductions rise means your taxes go up. Home values dropping is bad thing,. Many people is blue states will have trouble affording their homes after next year.

[Arlenton]

Still pretty convinced "rural vs urban" is a way too black and white way of looking at this politics wise.

[Sovaal]

Still pretty convinced "rural vs urban" is a way too black and white way of looking at this politics wise.

Indeed. Industrial workers had their part to ally as well, and cities have been known to go for the Republican before.

And even if it was black and white no need to punish people because you don't like who got elected. I don't like Trump, but I don't want hellfire on the people who voted for him (well, most of them anyway).

[Krampusland]

As much as I was aware, those incentives only boosted people who could already buy a house to buy an even bigger one instead. Do correct me if I am wrong?

The bill double deductions and child-credit, as well as lowered rates. Also, I did read that it will cause house prices to drop for a few percent (depending on the area). Please, seriously, correct me if I am wrong.

wrong. Those tax deductions were for home ownership. Having deductions rise means your taxes go up. Home values dropping is bad thing,. Many people is blue states will have trouble affording their homes after next year.

Deductions are literally an untaxable part of income, as such, they could only lower the taxes payed.
And, the last time I checked, when something gets cheaper it is usually easier to buy it, so, that is quite good for people who wish to buy a house.

[Tekeristan]

Hello, rural American here. Small town of 1.200 people. Small family farmers as compared to the bigger ones.
I identify as a democratic socialist, since identities seem important around here. So much for the solidarity of workers, or whatever.

The 2017 net farm income forecast is substantially below the 10-year average of $86.4 billion and
would be the second lowest since 2003 in inflation-adjusted dollars. This is primarily the result of
the outlook for continued weak prices for corn, soybeans, and cotton. Most crops and livestock
product prices remain significantly below the average for the period of 2011-2013, when prices
for many major commodities attained record or near-record highs. Net farm income is down 49%
since 2013; net cash income is down 26%.

The status quote hurt small farmers. It doesn't surprise me they turned to someone who promised to shake things up.
But I don't think 'punishing' the rural or city areas is exactly the way to go on things.

[San Lumen]

wrong. Those tax deductions were for home ownership. Having deductions rise means your taxes go up. Home values dropping is bad thing,. Many people is blue states will have trouble affording their homes after next year.

Deductions are literally an untaxable part of income, as such, they could only lower the taxes payed.
And, the last time I checked, when something gets cheaper it is usually easier to buy it, so, that is quite good for people who wish to buy a house.

when your taxes go up next year, the homeless rate increases and some rich snob in a luxury penthouse is paying less taxes then you we will see if your singing the same tune.

[Krampusland]

It is silly to see all this, if you want to blame someone, blame the parties for not giving better alternatives (maybe Kasich and Rubio would have been nice, but they should have campaigned better then).

[San Lumen]

It is silly to see all this, if you want to blame someone, blame the parties for not giving better alternatives (maybe Kasich and Rubio would have been nice, but they should have campaigned better then).

None of this had to happen if the electoral college did their job and overturned the election causing a constitutional crisis.

[Tekeristan]

It is silly to see all this, if you want to blame someone, blame the parties for not giving better alternatives (maybe Kasich and Rubio would have been nice, but they should have campaigned better then).

The 2 party system hurts.

[Krampusland]

Deductions are literally an untaxable part of income, as such, they could only lower the taxes payed.
And, the last time I checked, when something gets cheaper it is usually easier to buy it, so, that is quite good for people who wish to buy a house.

when your taxes go up next year, the homeless rate increases and some rich snob in a luxury penthouse is paying less taxes then you we will see if your singing the same tune.

Actually, the loss of incetives will hit the top earners more. And no, taxes will not go up, not before 2027 where they are predicted to lower income (for all brackets) by some 0.1-0.3%.

And not buying a house makes you homeless? Ever heard of apartments or renting? Or maybe blue states should stop collecting state income taxes to lower the burden on the people?

[San Lumen]

when your taxes go up next year, the homeless rate increases and some rich snob in a luxury penthouse is paying less taxes then you we will see if your singing the same tune.

Actually, the loss of incetives will hit the top earners more. And no, taxes will not go up, not before 2027 where they are predicted to lower income (for all brackets) by some 0.1-0.3%.

And not buying a house makes you homeless? Ever heard of apartments or renting? Or maybe blue states should stop collecting state income taxes to lower the burden on the people?

I've accepted that its unlikely i'll ever own a home as republicans have made it quite clear they only care about the rich and their corporate masters.

Oh so blue states should be punished?

[Krampusland]

It is silly to see all this, if you want to blame someone, blame the parties for not giving better alternatives (maybe Kasich and Rubio would have been nice, but they should have campaigned better then).

None of this had to happen if the electoral college did their job and overturned the election causing a constitutional crisis.

Yes, because life under Trump is so bad that a constitutional crisis would have been better. Come on, do tell what great evil he has done to deserve that?

And what do you mean by "doing their job"? The job of the electoral college is to represent the vote of their electoral district, nothing more, nothing less.

[San Lumen]

None of this had to happen if the electoral college did their job and overturned the election causing a constitutional crisis.

Yes, because life under Trump is so bad that a constitutional crisis would have been better. Come on, do tell what great evil he has done to deserve that?

And what do you mean by "doing their job"? The job of the electoral college is to represent the vote of their electoral district, nothing more, nothing less.

No they were created as a "in case of emergency break glass." Not to be a rubber stamp.

[Tekeristan]

Actually, the loss of incetives will hit the top earners more. And no, taxes will not go up, not before 2027 where they are predicted to lower income (for all brackets) by some 0.1-0.3%.

And not buying a house makes you homeless? Ever heard of apartments or renting? Or maybe blue states should stop collecting state income taxes to lower the burden on the people?

I've accepted that its unlikely i'll ever own a home as republicans have made it quite clear they only care about the rich and their corporate masters.

Oh so blue states should be punished?

Clearly the fault of blue states for having social programs and good schools, while having budgets in the black. For my state at least.

[San Lumen]

I've accepted that its unlikely i'll ever own a home as republicans have made it quite clear they only care about the rich and their corporate masters.

Oh so blue states should be punished?

Clearly the fault of blue states for having social programs and good schools, while having budgets in the black. For my state at least.

Yeah what a shame unlike those people in Kansas who have destroyed their education system and pretty much everything else and yet keep voting Republican like sheep. They are so much better off.

[Tekeristan]

Clearly the fault of blue states for having social programs and good schools, while having budgets in the black. For my state at least.

Yeah what a shame unlike those people in Kansas who have destroyed their education system and pretty much everything else and yet keep voting Republican like sheep.

I'd be a bit partisan saying it, but perhaps the former has something to do a little, at least, with the latter. But it's more complicated than all that.

Nonetheless, it's sectionalism or party affiliation more than anything else. Straight ticket voting. Whatever you want to call it. I'd almost say people don't know any better. I've just come to not expect much from people these days.

[Krampusland]

Actually, the loss of incetives will hit the top earners more. And no, taxes will not go up, not before 2027 where they are predicted to lower income (for all brackets) by some 0.1-0.3%.

And not buying a house makes you homeless? Ever heard of apartments or renting? Or maybe blue states should stop collecting state income taxes to lower the burden on the people?

I've accepted that its unlikely i'll ever own a home as republicans have made it quite clear they only care about the rich and their corporate masters.

Oh so blue states should be punished?

So become rich maybe they'll start liking you then
The way you speak it is almost as if houses will cost double the price they cost today.. oh well.

Punished? Those blue states punish their own people by giving them more taxes to pay. And for what? The states with high state taxes are usually the ones most in debt or at least in terms of debt per capita.
Compare one of the highest taxed states, California, to a 0% state tax state like Texas. California doesn't even a two times bigger GDP than Texas, but has thrice as much debt.

Lower taxes and lower state spending, that's how you succeed.

[Sovaal]

Clearly the fault of blue states for having social programs and good schools, while having budgets in the black. For my state at least.

Yeah what a shame unlike those people in Kansas who have destroyed their education system and pretty much everything else and yet keep voting Republican like sheep. They are so much better off.

So obviously the only solution is to punish them for thinking wrong by making their situation worse, huh?

Goddamit what ever happened to "eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind"?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Not under any valid definition of the phrase. Nice try, though.

So economic and societal collapse for voting for the wrong guy isn't punshiment tuan? Being "forced to fax the consequences" isn't a punishment? Nice try there.

I didn't say it wasn't a punishment. In fact, I said it was. The only thing I said it wasn't was guilt by association.

Way to discredit yourself.

[Krampusland]

Clearly the fault of blue states for having social programs and good schools, while having budgets in the black. For my state at least.

Yeah what a shame unlike those people in Kansas who have destroyed their education system and pretty much everything else and yet keep voting Republican like sheep. They are so much better off.

Voting like sheep? Of course they are, just how urban areas vote like sheep for democrats. Bernie would have been a far worse president, yet didn't prevent millenials to fall for his scams and support him.
You think I defend people who fall for conmen? Or people who try to put their religious sentiment infront of freedom and science? Or people who want to leech off of the government?

Be it blind Republican voters, or blind Democrat voters, all people who fall for a few strong words without substance are the same, the differences are cosmetical, an elephant here, a donkey there. It has always been the same. Replace the swastika with a hammer and sickle, nothing changes.

[Tekeristan]

Yeah what a shame unlike those people in Kansas who have destroyed their education system and pretty much everything else and yet keep voting Republican like sheep. They are so much better off.

So obviously the only solution is to punish them for thinking wrong by making their situation worse, huh?

Goddamit what ever happened to "eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind"?

I don't know. I've largely just lost all interest and hope in this stuff. I find it tiring to go into much debate off anymore.

I just know this effects me personally. At what point are you supposed to start to care enough to actively start debating? But that's the thing, few change minds when they're angry or whatever. Whomever I'm talking to feel as 'right' as I probably did.

[Sovaal]

So economic and societal collapse for voting for the wrong guy isn't punshiment tuan? Being "forced to fax the consequences" isn't a punishment? Nice try there.

I didn't say it wasn't a punishment. In fact, I said it was. The only thing I said it wasn't was guilt by association.

Way to discredit yourself.

Uh huh.

Even if it's not "guilt by association" it's still the unjust punishment of people for no giddam good reason beyond the fact that you don't like the guy in fuckingn office. Honestly, it's childish.

[Sovaal]

So obviously the only solution is to punish them for thinking wrong by making their situation worse, huh?

Goddamit what ever happened to "eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind"?

I don't know. I've largely just lost all interest and hope in this stuff. I find it tiring to go into much debate off anymore.

I just know this effects me personally. At what point are you supposed to start to care enough to actively start debating? But that's the thing, few change minds when they're angry or whatever. Whomever I'm talking to feel as 'right' as I probably did.

Hell, I've probably been the same way, and have probably been just as wrong as well.

Makes me think.

Still a terrible idea on OPs part.

[Tekeristan]

I didn't say it wasn't a punishment. In fact, I said it was. The only thing I said it wasn't was guilt by association.

Way to discredit yourself.

Uh huh.

Even if it's not "guilt by association" it's still the unjust punishment of people for no giddam good reason beyond the fact that you don't like the guy in fuckingn office. Honestly, it's childish.

The country divided itself into weird sections since day 1. It hasn't changed much.