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Anti-Semitism in Germany again

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:54 pm
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Sause

BERLIN — When telecommunications manager Mikhail Tanaev emigrated to Germany in 1998 from his native Russia as a teen, his Jewish faith didn't matter to classmates or neighbors.

That's because Germany has taken extraordinary steps since the end of World War II to atone for the Holocaust and prevent anti-Semitism from taking hold again. The country has paid reparations to Jewish victims of Nazi persecution, erected dozens of memorials to those murdered and turned anti-Semitic speech into a crime.

Yet Chancellor Angela Merkel’s decision in 2015 to open the nation's arms to 1 million mostly Muslim refugees has created a double threat for Germany's roughly 120,000 Jews: rising anti-Semitism from the newcomers and a resurgent right-wing nationalist movement spawned by the arrival of so many immigrants.

The anti-Semitic sentiment has become more pubic and virulent, said Tanaev, 32. "When I arrived in Germany ... I never saw such displays."

Last week, thousands of protesters in Berlin burned Israeli flags to protest President Trump's controversial decision on Dec. 7 to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. The flag-burning prompted a national outcry.


"I never thought that could happen in the middle of Berlin. That's something you see in other parts of the world. It's really disturbing," Tanaev said. "It feels like we're being threatened because you never know how people will react further when something like this occurs."

Other instances of anti-Semitism in Germany have become more common and brazen recently. Last month, thieves in Berlin made off with more than a dozen cobblestone-sized plaques embedded in sidewalks memorializing victims of the Holocaust. And the German military found Nazi memorabilia in soldiers' barracks over the summer.

In 2016, Germany recorded 1,468 anti-Semitic incidents, an increase from previous years that has put Germany's Jewish community on edge, According to a recent survey by the University of Bielefeld in western Germany, 62% of Jewish respondents said they experience anti-Semitism in their everyday lives, while 28% said they were victims of verbal attacks or harassment in the past year.

The survey points to increased anti-Semitism by Muslim newcomers and a strengthened right-wing nativist movement, said Andreas Zick, who led the study.

Underscoring that trend is the rise of the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD), now the third-largest political party in parliament four years after its founding. The AfD drums up support with nationalist and anti-Semitic rhetoric.

"Germans are the only people in the world who plant a monument of shame in the heart of the capital," senior AfD member Björn Höcke said this year about the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe in Berlin.

Other party members want Nazi soldiers remembered as patriots.

Zick also noted anti-Semitic remarks posted on social media by right-wing groups. The comments fuel misconceptions among new immigrants that Germany tolerates such behavior, despite strict laws requiring social media giants such as Facebook to delete posts categorized as hate speech, he said.

"There's a lot of evidence from our studies that the Internet and young Muslim men in public are threatening (Jews),” Zick said. “Refugees coming in don't perceive that there's a strong norm against anti-Semitism.”

Such sentiments prompted a Jewish community center in Berlin to launch an initiative to combat anti-Semitism.

"Here, we put in concrete terms that 'the Jew' is actually a normal person — that he looks like you and is someone you can have a normal conversation with," said Rabbi Daniel Fabian of the Kahal Adass Jisroel Jewish community center and synagogue.

Members of the community center have been spit on and harassed in predominately Muslim neighborhoods since 2014, Fabian said. And his synagogue recently received a bomb threat from right-wing radicals. The compound housing the synagogue and community center are now under 24-hour police surveillance.

Jewish leaders are pushing for changes in the education system to head off anti-Semitism, including history lessons with visits to concentration camps. Bavaria is the only German state that now requires such visits.

"We are looking for modern means to convey what has happened and to keep the memory alive," said Josef Schuster, president of Germany's Central Council of Jews.

Tanaev said it also is important to draw parallels between the history of Jewish immigration and the current influx of newcomers. "That's the history of our people, and it's important to show others that fact," he said.

Fabian, whose grandmother was in the Auschwitz concentration camp during World War II, called for support from Muslim groups as well as the government to fight anti-Semitism.

“We can't be the only ones who are constantly reminding everyone else to look at what's happening right under your noses," he said.


Oh for fuck's sake Alt right, this shit again?


And yes, lets get this out of the way, yes, not everyone in the alt right is a raciest, sexiest, homophobe, whatever.


But you have to admit theirs at least some of them who are that way. And there very vocal about it.


But what do you think NSG?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:56 pm
by Washington Resistance Army
The far right (and imo ethnonationalism in particular) is rising pretty much everywhere in the West, not just Germany.

I don't really care myself, though I still find the NatSoc obsession with Jews to be silly.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:59 pm
by Pope Joan
Having been bombed by the Israeli air force, I understand their anger. I would rather direct it against the nation than against the Jewish people, however.

I have Jewish friends over there who still hope to free the nation from this hateful mania in which it has become enmeshed

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:02 pm
by Jhman
You know what I don't support is immigration, people should not be threathned

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:03 pm
by Neutraligon
Jhman wrote:You know what I don't support is immigration, people should not be threathned

This statement makes no logical sense. What does immigration have to do with being threatened?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:05 pm
by Baltenstein
Pope Joan wrote:Having been bombed by the Israeli air force, I understand their anger. I would rather direct it against the nation than against the Jewish people, however.


Turks, Moroccans and Algerians cry bitter tears when they remember how their homes were bombed by the Israeli air force, therefore it is rather understandable when they burn David Stars and shout "Death to the Yahudis!" and wait, I think there's something wrong in my line of thought here.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:06 pm
by Jhman
Neutraligon wrote:
Jhman wrote:You know what I don't support is immigration, people should not be threathned

This statement makes no logical sense. What does immigration have to do with being threatened?

Merkel should not have accepted those million refugees into Germany, it is nothing but a trick to create a voter base. This immigration is creating anti semitism

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:06 pm
by Liriena
Goddammit.
Other instances of anti-Semitism in Germany have become more common and brazen recently. Last month, thieves in Berlin made off with more than a dozen cobblestone-sized plaques embedded in sidewalks memorializing victims of the Holocaust. And the German military found Nazi memorabilia in soldiers' barracks over the summer.

In 2016, Germany recorded 1,468 anti-Semitic incidents, an increase from previous years that has put Germany's Jewish community on edge, According to a recent survey by the University of Bielefeld in western Germany, 62% of Jewish respondents said they experience anti-Semitism in their everyday lives, while 28% said they were victims of verbal attacks or harassment in the past year.

The survey points to increased anti-Semitism by Muslim newcomers and a strengthened right-wing nativist movement, said Andreas Zick, who led the study.


So it's a double-headed problem: Muslim anti-semitism and resurgent far right anti-semitism. Here's hoping the German government and civil society are willing and able to do the hard work necessary to at least mitigate this.

Although...
Last week, thousands of protesters in Berlin burned Israeli flags to protest President Trump's controversial decision on Dec. 7 to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. The flag-burning prompted a national outcry.

Being critical of Israel is not inherently anti-semitic, y'all.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:The far right (and imo ethnonationalism in particular) is rising pretty much everywhere in the West, not just Germany.

I don't really care myself, though I still find the NatSoc obsession with Jews to be silly.

So... how long before we see you keking about, approximately?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:07 pm
by Pope Joan
Neutraligon wrote:
Jhman wrote:You know what I don't support is immigration, people should not be threathned

This statement makes no logical sense. What does immigration have to do with being threatened?


It feels like a cell whose membrane is being permeated. Should it allow entrance to these threatening entities?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:07 pm
by Washington Resistance Army
Liriena wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:The far right (and imo ethnonationalism in particular) is rising pretty much everywhere in the West, not just Germany.

I don't really care myself, though I still find the NatSoc obsession with Jews to be silly.

So... how long before we see you keking about, approximately?


I much prefer wholesome memes from /k/ myself

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:08 pm
by Liriena
Jhman wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:This statement makes no logical sense. What does immigration have to do with being threatened?

Merkel should not have accepted those million refugees into Germany, it is nothing but a trick to create a voter base. This immigration is creating anti semitism

Asylum-recipients can vote in Germany?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:09 pm
by Baltenstein
Jhman wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:This statement makes no logical sense. What does immigration have to do with being threatened?

Merkel should not have accepted those million refugees into Germany, it is nothing but a trick to create a voter base.


Nonsense. The CDU has seen the biggest loss in voter support in its history due to Merkel's decision. And obviously, refugees and immigrants with no German citizenship aren't allowed to vote.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:10 pm
by Pope Joan
Baltenstein wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:Having been bombed by the Israeli air force, I understand their anger. I would rather direct it against the nation than against the Jewish people, however.


Turks, Moroccans and Algerians cry bitter tears when they remember how their homes were bombed by the Israeli air force, therefore it is rather understandable when they burn David Stars and shout "Death to the Yahudis!" and wait, I think there's something wrong in my line of thought here.


So you are saying Israel did not deliberately target and kill thousands of innocent civilians?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:11 pm
by Thermodolia
Washington Resistance Army wrote:The far right (and imo ethnonationalism in particular) is rising pretty much everywhere in the West, not just Germany.

I don't really care myself, though I still find the NatSoc obsession with Jews to be silly.

Ethnonationalism in general is silly

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:13 pm
by Baltenstein
Pope Joan wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
Turks, Moroccans and Algerians cry bitter tears when they remember how their homes were bombed by the Israeli air force, therefore it is rather understandable when they burn David Stars and shout "Death to the Yahudis!" and wait, I think there's something wrong in my line of thought here.


So you are saying Israel did not deliberately target and kill thousands of innocent civilians?


I'm saying that the anti-Jewish (and yes, it is explicitedly anti-Jewish in many cases, not "anti-Israeli government" or "anti-Israeli army" or whatever) hatred expressed by so many immigrants of Muslim background has very little to do with what Israel has or hasn't done to them, but is plain, old-fashioned anti-semitism.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:13 pm
by Liriena
Thermodolia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:The far right (and imo ethnonationalism in particular) is rising pretty much everywhere in the West, not just Germany.

I don't really care myself, though I still find the NatSoc obsession with Jews to be silly.

Ethnonationalism in general is silly

I mean, self-determination is cool, and Rojava seems to have turned out well, all things considered, but ethnonationalism seems to be nigh incapable of avoiding authoritarian and genocidal shenanigans.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:13 pm
by Vassenor
Neutraligon wrote:
Jhman wrote:You know what I don't support is immigration, people should not be threathned

This statement makes no logical sense. What does immigration have to do with being threatened?


Some people think being exposed to people who are not like them is actively harmful.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:14 pm
by United Imperial Systems
Stupid, pointless, ridiculous, what else can I say?
You came to Germany, you have to follow German standards, if you show anti-semitism, go back to Syria, that's what Germany should do.
Don't want to Germanize? Bye! We don't need you! All you do is cause trouble, we don't want to deal with it!
But instead, they take the humanitarian step and actually allow it to happen, which is sad.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:15 pm
by Yurizlansia
Anti-Semitism seems to be on the rise in recent years (compared to the 2000s, not 1940s of course). When I was in Elementary and Middle School anti-Semitism (calling me "cheap Jew" and things like that) was a little less common, but it was not as serious because they were kids, and didn't know anything about anti-Semitism, and the history it had.

In high school, I expected it to end, but of course it didn't. This isn't to day that it is school-sanctioned, or everyone is an anti-Semite. I go to an IB program in the United States, and as such most of the kids are not very ignorant, and the school/program administrators would bend over backwards to prevent the reputation of the school/program from being tarnished. Nonetheless, it still occurs, people give the Nazi salute during the national anthem, make Holocaust jokes, etc.

However, the United States is different from Germany. While anti-Semitism is frowned upon in the US, attitudes still exist in a surprising number of people. These include a Jewish banking conspiracy, Jewish Hollywood conspiracy, Holocaust denial (5% in gallup poll said the Holocaust may not have occurred; if that corresponds to the American population the number of people would be around 15 million), and a Zionist conspiracy. The government doesn't try to crack down on it thanks to the 1st amendment and all.

Germany on the other hand has the Holocaust denial laws, and laws against the supporting of an unconstiutional state. One would think that would make anti-Semitism much less prevalent in German society, and it does. But similar to the United States still likely has some of those beliefs in a small portion of their population.

I do have two questions: is it mainly from refugees and newcomers, or members of nationalist German parties? Also, why are the anti-Semites brave (or stupid enough) to broadcast their beliefs, and act on them?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:23 pm
by Thermodolia
Liriena wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Ethnonationalism in general is silly

I mean, self-determination is cool, and Rojava seems to have turned out well, all things considered, but ethnonationalism seems to be nigh incapable of avoiding authoritarian and genocidal shenanigans.

I didn't peg you as an ethno-nationalist

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:25 pm
by The Alma Mater
Yurizlansia wrote:I do have two questions: is it mainly from refugees and newcomers, or members of nationalist German parties?


As the article says - both. And from "native" muslims ofc.
The Jews themselves tend to see the muslims as the bigger threat though. The nationalists may be better organised and more vocal - but they are vastly less violent and tend to mostly shout hateful things from a distance.

Mostly.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:25 pm
by Neutraligon
Jhman wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:This statement makes no logical sense. What does immigration have to do with being threatened?

Merkel should not have accepted those million refugees into Germany, it is nothing but a trick to create a voter base. This immigration is creating anti semitism

Hmm, who knew asylum seekers could vote? Oh wait, they can't. Also, you did not answer the question or make it the original comment was any more logical.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:26 pm
by Baltenstein
United Imperial Systems wrote:Stupid, pointless, ridiculous, what else can I say?
You came to Germany, you have to follow German standards, if you show anti-semitism, go back to Syria, that's what Germany should do.
Don't want to Germanize? Bye! We don't need you! All you do is cause trouble, we don't want to deal with it!
But instead, they take the humanitarian step and actually allow it to happen, which is sad.


Make no mistake, the AfD/Pegida sort of types who love to point at the anti-Semitism displayed by many Muslim immigrants are not exactly a hotbed of "righteous gentiles" either.
They are sensible enough to not boast about it out loud, like the immigrants do, however, it is known that on a more discrete level, they happily indulge in the same, conspiracy-ridden and often Kremlin-sponsored, BS about how "the liberal globalist elite, Soros and *hint-hint* you know who we're talking about *hint* are deliberately trying to destroy white civilization and replace it with brown people* etc etc.
This is a post that was found to have been shared among the AfD party youth:

Image


For those who can't read German, it says something along the lines of "Hello slaves, I am the evil Baron Rothshild, me and my people control all the money, all the media, all the governments, are personally responsible for all wars and desasters since forever, mwahahaha"

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:29 pm
by The New California Republic
I visit Germany fairly frequently, but I haven't noticed anything different, but then again Anti-Semitism is one of those insidious things that can often go unnoticed in everyday life, until it erupts into more overt things like desecrating Jewish graves etc. The only instance of Anti-Semitism that I have seen myself in modern Germany is when part of a concentration camp memorial got torched by neo-nazis.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:29 pm
by Nunavutialand
This issue is being caused by unintegrated extremist Muslim refugees as well as neo-nazis.
Who knew that two things which hate each other could get along so well in hating Jews.