The State of the Democratic Party II

[Major-Tom]

Yeah fam, I see a woman shot down in combat because she was an army reserve, and like her because I have a sadistic love for murder or some shit. Give me a break.

No, I'm being serious. Answer the question honestly.

I think the Iraq war was a complete disaster that caused the unnecessary deaths of untold hundreds of thousands. Mrs. Duckworth was a reserve who was deployed to Iraq. Did she make a mistake supporting the war? Yeah, probably. Did she murder civilians outside of the Iraqi forces we were fighting? Y'know, probably not.

So, in all seriousness, and I can't believe I have to clarify this, no I don't support the killing of Iraqi civilians.

[MERIZoC]

You support murdering Iraqi civilians?

Merizoc, I hate to admit it, but you're reaching on that.

Did she actually say she shot people personally

Even if she didn't, she was completely complicit in it.

and enjoyed it?

Good luck with that defense. "Your honor, I may have murdered that man, but I did NOT enjoy it"

Did she enlist specifically to go do that?

That is generally what you sign up for in the military, yes.

Source it, please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Duckworth#Military_service

[The Sauganash Union]

Is Joe Kennedy III really the best Democrats can do?

Jesus.

[Senkaku]

Merizoc, I hate to admit it, but you're reaching on that.

Did she actually say she shot people personally

Even if she didn't, she was completely complicit in it.

And there's the pivot lol

[Major-Tom]

Being behind some sensible ideas in regards to marijuana, civil liberties, and foreign policy. *shrugs.*

As I said, she isn't great, I wouldn't want her as Pres, hence why I say keep her in the House.

I would not trust the "civil liberties" credentials of the woman who for several years was in bed with Fox News types, condemning the president for not using that oh so great buzzword, "radical islamic terrorism". Her legislative record is proof enough of these authoritarian and islamophobic positions. Her foreign policy lies slightly to the worse end of Obama, and of course, her friendship with Indian fascists is completely alarming.

Again, I don't praise her, I just don't think the excess adoration for her is acceptable but neither is the hatred. She has weird religious beliefs and has sided with some people on the wrong issues. But with all that bad, there's some good too. Would rather have her in the house representing Hawaii than a Republican (which, granted, it's Hawaii, so that would never happen).

And as for her support of the bipartisan bill that in theory would prevent terrorists from acquiring guns, the so called no fly list ban, well, in theory, it should work, but it doesn't since a lot of innocent people are adversely affected from owning guns because of such laws. But it's such a common bipartisan rallying cry in regards to gun control, the whole no fly list thing, it's just a little thing that doesn't amount to much in my mind.

But, my position on Gabbard is clear. Don't particularly care for her or show enthusiasm for her, but I don't hate her either.

[Uiiop]

Is Joe Kennedy III really the best Democrats can do?

Jesus.

Kinda doubt the best was the idea tbh. The opposition's response for any SOTU doesn't aim that high IMO. At least Kennedy have better diction than trump last night. But's that's setting the bar below ground tbf.

[Major-Tom]

Is Joe Kennedy III really the best Democrats can do?

Jesus.

We could've picked people leagues better than Kennedy.

[MERIZoC]

No, I'm being serious. Answer the question honestly.

I think the Iraq war was a complete disaster that caused the unnecessary deaths of untold hundreds of thousands. Mrs. Duckworth was a reserve who was deployed to Iraq. Did she make a mistake supporting the war? Yeah, probably. Did she murder civilians outside of the Iraqi forces we were fighting? Y'know, probably not.

So, in all seriousness, and I can't believe I have to clarify this, no I don't support the killing of Iraqi civilians.

Then why do you support someone who, if not killed civilians or soldiers trying to defend their home from destruction, then was certainly complicit in it, just like everyone else in the military? Someone who has shown, as far as I can tell, no regret over her actions, but instead has indicated the opposite, touting her "service" as a dig at Trump's draft-dodging, as though she should be commended in any way for her actions.

[The Rich Port]

Merizoc, I hate to admit it, but you're reaching on that.

Did she actually say she shot people personally

Even if she didn't, she was completely complicit in it.

and enjoyed it?

Good luck with that defense. "Your honor, I may have murdered that man, but I did NOT enjoy it"

Did she enlist specifically to go do that?

That is generally what you sign up for in the military, yes.

Source it, please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Duckworth#Military_service

Nowhere in that page does it say she murdered civilians.

Do you have actual proof or only your ridiculous speculationary fantasies?

What's your beef with this lady anyway? Did she run over your foot in her motorized wheelchair?

[MERIZoC]

Even if she didn't, she was completely complicit in it.

And there's the pivot lol

What pivot?

If I drive you to someone's house so you can murder them am I not complicit?

[The Sauganash Union]

Is Joe Kennedy III really the best Democrats can do?

Jesus.

Kinda doubt the best was the idea tbh. The opposition's response for any SOTU doesn't aim that high.

Just sayin', the guy seems kind of dim.

Come to think of it, a lot of the Kennedys have seemed to be a bunch spoiled idiots, rapists, alcoholics, murders, or some combo of the aforementioned.

It's the Democratic version of the Bush family.

[Uiiop]

Kinda doubt the best was the idea tbh. The opposition's response for any SOTU doesn't aim that high.

Just sayin', the guy seems kind of dim.

Come to think of it, a lot of the Kennedys have seemed to be a bunch spoiled idiots, rapists, alcoholics, murders, or some combo of the aforementioned.

It's the Democratic version of the Bush family.

How did you get that impression?
I only heard snippets so i only made impressions on tone not content. Hence the trump dig in the edit.

[MERIZoC]

Even if she didn't, she was completely complicit in it.


Good luck with that defense. "Your honor, I may have murdered that man, but I did NOT enjoy it"


That is generally what you sign up for in the military, yes.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Duckworth#Military_service

Nowhere in that page does it say she murdered civilians.

It talks about her work as an american soldier, which I can only presume is what you were asking a source for, since the part about American crimes in Iraq (including the invasion itself) is fairly well known.

What's your beef with this lady anyway? Did she run over your foot in her motorized wheelchair?

Well memed, but no, my beef with her is that she was a willing and unrepentant participant in evil, like almost every other American soldier at the time.

[Major-Tom]

I think the Iraq war was a complete disaster that caused the unnecessary deaths of untold hundreds of thousands. Mrs. Duckworth was a reserve who was deployed to Iraq. Did she make a mistake supporting the war? Yeah, probably. Did she murder civilians outside of the Iraqi forces we were fighting? Y'know, probably not.

So, in all seriousness, and I can't believe I have to clarify this, no I don't support the killing of Iraqi civilians.

Then why do you support someone who, if not killed civilians or soldiers trying to defend their home from destruction, then was certainly complicit in it, just like everyone else in the military? Someone who has shown, as far as I can tell, no regret over her actions, but instead has indicated the opposite, touting her "service" as a dig at Trump's draft-dodging, as though she should be commended in any way for her actions.

Back in 2004, the American populace was so deep in post 911 paranoia that many decent American men and women decided to go overseas and fight for what they thought was right. Clearly, it wasn't right, but many of these veterans came back injured, they came back traumatized, etc etc. And many of them, too, after the War realized how much of a mess and pointless endeavor it was. Same happened in regards to Vietnam vets, if we're being honest, many you talk to don't care to talk about what happened in the war, but would admit that it was a pointless war.

I don't think Duckworth should be President, but the issue I have with your position here is that you seem to think all veterans of the Iraq War were complicit in the tragedies of the war. Perhaps, in a sense, there is a degree of complicity with some people, but I would never go as far to condemn veterans of the war. On the contrary, those who served and came back, I think most of them should be treated with an amount of dignity and respect. But that's just me.

[Major-Tom]

Kinda doubt the best was the idea tbh. The opposition's response for any SOTU doesn't aim that high.

Just sayin', the guy seems kind of dim.

Come to think of it, a lot of the Kennedys have seemed to be a bunch spoiled idiots, rapists, alcoholics, murders, or some combo of the aforementioned.

It's the Democratic version of the Bush family.

Some of the Kennedys were stand up people, others were overall just spoiled brats from the start who felt they had a birthright to be in an elected office. Another key difference, the Kennedys are often idolized by many people, but not the Bushes.

[The Sauganash Union]

Just sayin', the guy seems kind of dim.

Come to think of it, a lot of the Kennedys have seemed to be a bunch spoiled idiots, rapists, alcoholics, murders, or some combo of the aforementioned.

It's the Democratic version of the Bush family.

How did you get that impression?
I only heard snippets so i only made impressions on tone not content. Hence the trump dig in the edit.

His diction was pretty awful. He looked like he just walked out of a gloryhole and was trying wayyyy too hard to with his intonation. I'm guessing he was going for sounding like Obama, but he just came off as a tone-deaf moron with a silver spoon up his ass telling trade school students what's what.

Trump also had a silver spoon growing up but he at least recognizes it and just plays it straight, rather than coming off as a soulless automaton. 2/10 not inspired at all.

I'll give him that he's the smartest Kennedy in a few years, way better than that dolt Ted or the dumbshit John John.

[MERIZoC]

Then why do you support someone who, if not killed civilians or soldiers trying to defend their home from destruction, then was certainly complicit in it, just like everyone else in the military? Someone who has shown, as far as I can tell, no regret over her actions, but instead has indicated the opposite, touting her "service" as a dig at Trump's draft-dodging, as though she should be commended in any way for her actions.

Back in 2004, the American populace was so deep in post 911 paranoia that many decent American men and women decided to go overseas and fight for what they thought was right. Clearly, it wasn't right, but many of these veterans came back injured, they came back traumatized, etc etc. And many of them, too, after the War realized how much of a mess and pointless endeavor it was. Same happened in regards to Vietnam vets, if we're being honest, many you talk to don't care to talk about what happened in the war, but would admit that it was a pointless war.

I don't think Duckworth should be President, but the issue I have with your position here is that you seem to think all veterans of the Iraq War were complicit in the tragedies of the war. Perhaps, in a sense, there is a degree of complicity with some people, but I would never go as far to condemn veterans of the war. On the contrary, those who served and came back, I think most of them should be treated with an amount of dignity and respect. But that's just me.

The extent to which they think it was pointless is that their own lives were fucked up by it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I can't imagine the number of them who actually care about the actual victims of the war is very high—and you see the same thing with Vietnam. It's all over our culture.

Why shouldn't they be condemned? Just because they had a rough time while they were doing their killing? I'm sure Mexican cartel members have seen some shit, doesn't mean we should be electing them to public office.

[The Sauganash Union]

Just sayin', the guy seems kind of dim.

Come to think of it, a lot of the Kennedys have seemed to be a bunch spoiled idiots, rapists, alcoholics, murders, or some combo of the aforementioned.

It's the Democratic version of the Bush family.

Some of the Kennedys were stand up people, others were overall just spoiled brats from the start who felt they had a birthright to be in an elected office. Another key difference, the Kennedys are often idolized by many people, but not the Bushes.

They really weren't ever stand-up people. JFK and RFK were pretty good liberals, but that's about it. Ted Kennedy killed a woman. William Kennedy Smith raped a girl. Patrick Kennedy covered up a rape and was an alcoholic drug addict. JFK Jr. was a dumb prettyboy who killed his wife and sister when he wasn't even qualified to fly. Even the patriarch, Joe Kennedy Sr (probably a Nazi sympathizer), was a bootlegger and lobotomized his own daughter.

As is the case when a young, charismatic person dies young, they become larger than life, and a legend is built around them. There is a very stark difference between who the Kennedys are and what the people think they are.

If JFK spoke with a flat Midwestern accent and was fat and bald, nobody would've given a shit about him.

[The Sauganash Union]

Merizoc, I hate to admit it, but you're reaching on that.

Did she actually say she shot people personally

Even if she didn't, she was completely complicit in it.

and enjoyed it?

Good luck with that defense. "Your honor, I may have murdered that man, but I did NOT enjoy it"

Did she enlist specifically to go do that?

That is generally what you sign up for in the military, yes.

Source it, please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Duckworth#Military_service

Tammy Duckworth is pretty incompetent and overall a bad person, but this is not an area where she has done wrongdoing.

[Major-Tom]

Back in 2004, the American populace was so deep in post 911 paranoia that many decent American men and women decided to go overseas and fight for what they thought was right. Clearly, it wasn't right, but many of these veterans came back injured, they came back traumatized, etc etc. And many of them, too, after the War realized how much of a mess and pointless endeavor it was. Same happened in regards to Vietnam vets, if we're being honest, many you talk to don't care to talk about what happened in the war, but would admit that it was a pointless war.

I don't think Duckworth should be President, but the issue I have with your position here is that you seem to think all veterans of the Iraq War were complicit in the tragedies of the war. Perhaps, in a sense, there is a degree of complicity with some people, but I would never go as far to condemn veterans of the war. On the contrary, those who served and came back, I think most of them should be treated with an amount of dignity and respect. But that's just me.

The extent to which they think it was pointless is that their own lives were fucked up by it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I can't imagine the number of them who actually care about the actual victims of the war is very high—and you see the same thing with Vietnam. It's all over our culture.

Why shouldn't they be condemned? Just because they had a rough time while they were doing their killing? I'm sure Mexican cartel members have seen some shit, doesn't mean we should be electing them to public office.

Our culture may be unnecessarily jingoistic, sure, I'll concede that much. But I still stand by what I say, I won't fault people, many young men or women who almost felt obligated to fight (whether for financial reasons, family history, or just because they were told it was their patriotic duty). I will fault the people in charge of the War, the Bush administration, and the sadistic assholes who used the war as an excuse just to kill.

To equate the Mexican cartel with the US Army is simply a bit of a weird comparison, too.

Regardless, if we wanna continue the topic of Veterans/the Iraq War, I'd be happy for a thread on the topic.

[The Rich Port]

Then why do you support someone who, if not killed civilians or soldiers trying to defend their home from destruction, then was certainly complicit in it, just like everyone else in the military? Someone who has shown, as far as I can tell, no regret over her actions, but instead has indicated the opposite, touting her "service" as a dig at Trump's draft-dodging, as though she should be commended in any way for her actions.

Back in 2004, the American populace was so deep in post 911 paranoia that many decent American men and women decided to go overseas and fight for what they thought was right. Clearly, it wasn't right, but many of these veterans came back injured, they came back traumatized, etc etc. And many of them, too, after the War realized how much of a mess and pointless endeavor it was. Same happened in regards to Vietnam vets, if we're being honest, many you talk to don't care to talk about what happened in the war, but would admit that it was a pointless war.

I don't think Duckworth should be President, but the issue I have with your position here is that you seem to think all veterans of the Iraq War were complicit in the tragedies of the war. Perhaps, in a sense, there is a degree of complicity with some people, but I would never go as far to condemn veterans of the war. On the contrary, those who served and came back, I think most of them should be treated with an amount of dignity and respect. But that's just me.

Not to mention there's soldiers who just enjoy serving their country and feel that not fighting would disgrace themselves and their families.

For some soldiers it's just as fucking job. It's the only thing they know, the only thing they feel they're good at.

To judge them for following orders is pretty fucking cowardly. If there's anybody to be judging, it's their commanders and the President at the time.

They're the ones handing out the marching orders, they're the ones deciding policy,they're the ones who decide who is the enemy.

Besides, in war, PEOPLE DIE.

Merizoc is grasping at straws so hard to make this lady look bad for no good reason it's making my testicular tubes erect.

[The Sauganash Union]

I'm sure Mexican cartel members have seen some shit, doesn't mean we should be electing them to public office.

Correct. In fact, we should be deporting them along with MS-13 members.

[Telconi]

And there's the pivot lol

What pivot?

If I drive you to someone's house so you can murder them am I not complicit?

"murder"

Wanna know why nobody is taking you seriously?

[Major-Tom]

Some of the Kennedys were stand up people, others were overall just spoiled brats from the start who felt they had a birthright to be in an elected office. Another key difference, the Kennedys are often idolized by many people, but not the Bushes.

They really weren't ever stand-up people. JFK and RFK were pretty good liberals, but that's about it. Ted Kennedy killed a woman. William Kennedy Smith raped a girl. Patrick Kennedy covered up a rape and was an alcoholic drug addict. JFK Jr. was a dumb prettyboy who killed his wife and sister when he wasn't even qualified to fly. Even the patriarch, Joe Kennedy Sr (probably a Nazi sympathizer), was a bootlegger and lobotomized his own daughter.

As is the case when a young, charismatic person dies young, they become larger than life, and a legend is built around them. There is a very stark difference between who the Kennedys are and what the people think they are.

If JFK spoke with a flat Midwestern accent and was fat and bald, nobody would've given a shit about him.

You have some points here. JFK wasn't a bad person, Bobby Kennedy, to the best of my historical knowledge, was as idealistic as they came.

Ted Kennedy, jesus christ, I won't even go there. As a Democrat, I'm supposed to love him, but what happened at Chappaquiddick and his reputation for being a heavy boozer and serial womanizer just shows that he was too entitled to ever recognize his personal wrongdoings. The Kennedys were, and remain a family of men and women born with a sense of entitlement. There were exceptions, but I think the Kennedy Dynasty and Kennedy "legacy" that millions cherish should die out.

[The Sauganash Union]

Back in 2004, the American populace was so deep in post 911 paranoia that many decent American men and women decided to go overseas and fight for what they thought was right. Clearly, it wasn't right, but many of these veterans came back injured, they came back traumatized, etc etc. And many of them, too, after the War realized how much of a mess and pointless endeavor it was. Same happened in regards to Vietnam vets, if we're being honest, many you talk to don't care to talk about what happened in the war, but would admit that it was a pointless war.

I don't think Duckworth should be President, but the issue I have with your position here is that you seem to think all veterans of the Iraq War were complicit in the tragedies of the war. Perhaps, in a sense, there is a degree of complicity with some people, but I would never go as far to condemn veterans of the war. On the contrary, those who served and came back, I think most of them should be treated with an amount of dignity and respect. But that's just me.

Not to mention there's soldiers who just enjoy serving their country and feel that not fighting would disgrace themselves and their families.

For some soldiers it's just as fucking job. It's the only thing they know, the only thing they feel they're good at.

To judge them for following orders is pretty fucking cowardly. If there's anybody to be judging, it's their commanders and the President at the time.

They're the ones handing out the marching orders, they're the ones deciding policy,they're the ones who decide who is the enemy.

Besides, in war, PEOPLE DIE.

Merizoc is grasping at straws so hard to make this lady look bad for no good reason it's making my testicular tubes erect.

There are plenty of things to dump on Tammy Duckworth for (like the fact she has an IQ of about 50), but her military service is admirable.