NATION

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The State of the Democratic Party II

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who are your preferred potential 2020 Democratic contenders?

Bernie Sanders
150
29%
Joe Biden
99
19%
Elizabeth Warren
77
15%
Martin O'Malley
32
6%
Cory Booker
34
7%
Kirsten Gillibrand
23
4%
Kamala Harris
42
8%
Andrew Cuomo
15
3%
Chris Murphy
13
3%
Sherrod Brown
28
5%
 
Total votes : 513

User avatar
Kramanica
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5369
Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kramanica » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:56 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Kramanica wrote:Better than gun grabbers, I'd say.


Until one is pointing one at you.

And the other wants to rob me of my right to defend myself.
Running out of nation names faster than I can think of them
American National Syndicalist
"B-but gun control works in Australia..."

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55640
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:58 am

Kramanica wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Until one is pointing one at you.

And the other wants to rob me of my right to defend myself.


Where is that right listed?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:59 am

Crockerland wrote:
Telconi wrote:
People who vote for gun grabbers are as insane to me as people who vote for literal Nazis. In the end, if those are my two choices, I'm picking the bigot not intent on destroying my way of life.

>Society where one of the binary options is a literal Nazi
>Still voting


You can return to 4chan now...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kramanica
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5369
Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kramanica » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:59 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Kramanica wrote:And the other wants to rob me of my right to defend myself.


Where is that right listed?

You don't believe that people should be able to defend themselves?
Running out of nation names faster than I can think of them
American National Syndicalist
"B-but gun control works in Australia..."

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:00 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Kramanica wrote:And the other wants to rob me of my right to defend myself.


Where is that right listed?


Right next to 'right to be a Jew'
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Crockerland
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5456
Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Crockerland » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:00 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Kramanica wrote:And the other wants to rob me of my right to defend myself.


Where is that right listed?

Basic rights of literally all living creatures without exception.
Free Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Tibet.
Gay not Queer / Why Abortion is Genocide / End Gay Erasure
PROUD SUPPORTER OF:
National Liberalism, Nuclear & Geothermal Power, GMOs, Vaccines, Biodiesel, LGBTIA equality, Universal Healthcare, Universal Basic Income, Constitutional Carry, Emotional Support Twinks, Right to Life


User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13695
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Crockerland wrote:
Telconi wrote:
People who vote for gun grabbers are as insane to me as people who vote for literal Nazis. In the end, if those are my two choices, I'm picking the bigot not intent on destroying my way of life.

>Society where one of the binary options is a literal Nazi
>Still voting

Eww, greentext.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Post War America
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7951
Founded: Sep 05, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Where is that right listed?


Right next to 'right to be a Jew'


I mean if we really want to get technical about it, the 2nd Amendment doesn't state that citizens have a right to defend themselves with borne arms, merely that they can bear them. Just as the 1st Amendment technically only prevents congress from forbidding religious worship, but technicalities are stupid as fuck.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
Proudly Banned from the 10000 Islands
For those who care
A PMT Social Democratic Genepunk/Post Cyberpunk Nation the practices big (atomic) stick diplomacy
Not Post-Apocalyptic
Economic Left: -9.62
Social Libertarian: -6.00
Unrepentant New England Yankee
Gravlen wrote:The famous Bowling Green Massacre is yesterday's news. Today it's all about the Cricket Blue Carnage. Tomorrow it'll be about the Curling Yellow Annihilation.

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55640
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:03 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Where is that right listed?


Right next to 'right to be a Jew'


Hmmm The gun stroker argument of if the Jews had guns?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55640
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:04 pm

Kramanica wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Where is that right listed?

You don't believe that people should be able to defend themselves?


We talking constitution or opinions?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:05 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Right next to 'right to be a Jew'


Hmmm The gun stroker argument of if the Jews had guns?


No, I was referencing the fact that they are literally right next to one another in the Bill of Rights.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55640
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:06 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmm The gun stroker argument of if the Jews had guns?


No, I was referencing the fact that they are literally right next to one another in the Bill of Rights.


You in a well regulated militia?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Kramanica
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5369
Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kramanica » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:06 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Right next to 'right to be a Jew'


Hmmm The gun stroker argument of if the Jews had guns?

Well, the Nazis did outlaw guns for Jews.

Let's play a basic thought experiment. Which populace is easier to control? One that is armed or one that isn't armed?
Running out of nation names faster than I can think of them
American National Syndicalist
"B-but gun control works in Australia..."

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:06 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
No, I was referencing the fact that they are literally right next to one another in the Bill of Rights.


You in a well regulated militia?


Yes, also not relevant.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kramanica
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5369
Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kramanica » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:07 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Kramanica wrote:You don't believe that people should be able to defend themselves?


We talking constitution or opinions?

I didn't specifically mention the Constitution. So you tell me.
Running out of nation names faster than I can think of them
American National Syndicalist
"B-but gun control works in Australia..."

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55640
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:07 pm

Kramanica wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmm The gun stroker argument of if the Jews had guns?

Well, the Nazis did outlaw guns for Jews.

Let's play a basic thought experiment. Which populace is easier to control? One that is armed or one that isn't armed?


For the Nazis? It didn't matter.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53355
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:07 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
No, I was referencing the fact that they are literally right next to one another in the Bill of Rights.


You in a well regulated militia?


Yes actually he is.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55640
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:08 pm

Kramanica wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
We talking constitution or opinions?

I didn't specifically mention the Constitution. So you tell me.


Usually "right" mentioned here is the Constitution but whatever......
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55640
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:08 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
You in a well regulated militia?


Yes, also not relevant.


Oh. Not an origianalist?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55640
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:09 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
You in a well regulated militia?


Yes actually he is.


I admit lack of knowledge of militias but how exactly to they regulate them?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53355
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:10 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Yes, also not relevant.


Oh. Not an origianalist?


The idea of needing to be in a militia to exercise the right to bear arms is a modern invention that arose in 1939.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:10 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Yes, also not relevant.


Oh. Not an origianalist?


Eh, sorta.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53355
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:10 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Yes actually he is.


I admit lack of knowledge of militias but how exactly to they regulate them?


That's not what the 2A means lol
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
Post War America
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7951
Founded: Sep 05, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:13 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Oh. Not an origianalist?


The idea of needing to be in a militia to exercise the right to bear arms is a modern invention that arose in 1939.


Except its explicitly in the original language of the United States Constitution:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

This is literally the exact text emphasis mine.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
Proudly Banned from the 10000 Islands
For those who care
A PMT Social Democratic Genepunk/Post Cyberpunk Nation the practices big (atomic) stick diplomacy
Not Post-Apocalyptic
Economic Left: -9.62
Social Libertarian: -6.00
Unrepentant New England Yankee
Gravlen wrote:The famous Bowling Green Massacre is yesterday's news. Today it's all about the Cricket Blue Carnage. Tomorrow it'll be about the Curling Yellow Annihilation.

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55640
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:13 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
I admit lack of knowledge of militias but how exactly to they regulate them?


That's not what the 2A means lol


*shrugs* your interpretation.

But this discussion really doesn't have anything to do with he state of the Democratic Party II so I will back away from this tangent.....
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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