The State of the Democratic Party II

[Corrian]

I've noticed Democrats seem confused between "Republicans are acting like they're no longer going to have free and fair elections" and "There will be a blue tsunami in 2018". Not sure how we have a blue tsunami if the elections aren't fair anymore

Or how a Democrat wins in Alabama for that matter.

[Corrian]

Judges Erase One-Vote Lead In Virginia

But the Democratic giddiness came to an abrupt end when the judges declared that one uncounted ballot should go to David Yancey, the Republican incumbent. That decision left both candidates with 11,608 votes: a tie.

But here is where things get really interesting: Virginia law says the state election board shall "determine by lot which of the candidates shall be declared elected." And it gets even better: Whoever is the loser after the lots are drawn could potentially then ask for another recount of the original ballots.

In other words, it appears likely that control of Virginia's House of Delegates will come down to a game of chance.

This entire thing is just crazy.

I have to agree with Sam Lumen in this case. Why the hell was a ballot written with both candidates in suddenly flipped to one? It should be scrapped if someone can't vote properly.

[Arlenton]

TFW I’m the only Polk voter.

[Senkaku]

TFW I’m the only Polk voter.

Please stay in your corner with the ghosts of the Niños Héroes.

[The Liberated Territories]

Out of all the examples above, Andrew Jackson. He may have murdered thousands, but he'd never sell my children into generational debt. ;-)

[Genivaria]

My favorite is naturally FDR with the caveat that the Japanese interment was both unconstitutional and unnecessary.

[Corrian]

Out of all the examples above, Andrew Jackson. He may have murdered thousands, but he'd never sell my children into generational debt. ;-)

I read a thing that said my generation is the first generation that makes less than their parents did (Presumably at this time and based off of inflation and shit)

[San Lumen]

This entire thing is just crazy.

I have to agree with Sam Lumen in this case. Why the hell was a ballot written with both candidates in suddenly flipped to one? It should be scrapped if someone can't vote properly.

I work the polls every November and I can tell you that is clearly an over vote not to mention the voter intent isn't clear. That ballot should not have been counted. If you made and error ask for a new ballot. I dont know how the law is in Virginia but in my state every voter gets three chances to vote in other words three ballots.

[San Lumen]

I've noticed Democrats seem confused between "Republicans are acting like they're no longer going to have free and fair elections" and "There will be a blue tsunami in 2018". Not sure how we have a blue tsunami if the elections aren't fair anymore

Or how a Democrat wins in Alabama for that matter.

well you did just have a blatant power grab in Virginia when republicans had judges count what should have been a discarded ballot.

[USS Monitor]

News is probably an alternate spelling of "Neuse," which is the name of the river.

I mean I would probably go more along the lines of "noose" but that's just me.

It looks like we're both wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_N ... #Etymology

The original area near the mouth of the James River was first referred to as Newportes Newes as early as 1621.[5]

The source of the name "Newport News" is not known with certainty. Several versions are recorded, and it is the subject of popular speculation locally. Probably the best-known explanation holds that when an early group of Jamestown colonists left to return to England after the Starving Time during the winter of 1609–1610 aboard a ship of Captain Christopher Newport, they encountered another fleet of supply ships under the new Governor Thomas West, 3rd Baron De La Warr in the James River off Mulberry Island with reinforcements of men and supplies. The new governor ordered them to turn around, and return to Jamestown. Under this theory, the community was named for Newport's "good news". Another possibility is that the community may have derived its name from an old English word "news" meaning "new town". At least one source claims that the "New" arose from the original settlement's being rebuilt after a fire.[6]

Another source gave the original name as New Port Newce, named for a person with the name Newce and the town's place as a new seaport. The namesake, Sir William Newce, was an English soldier and originally settled in Ireland. There he had established Newcestown near Bandon, County Cork. He sailed to Virginia with Sir Francis Wyatt in October 1621 and was granted 2,500 acres (1,012 ha) of land. He died two days later. His brother, Capt. Thomas Newce, was given "600 acres at Kequatan, now called Elizabeth Cittie." A partner Daniel Gookin completed founding the settlement.[7]

In his 1897 two-volume work Old Virginia and her Neighbors, American historian John Fiske writes:

... several old maps where the name is given as Newport Ness, being the mariner's way of saying Newport Point.[8]

The fact that the name formerly appeared as "Newport's News" is verified by numerous early documents and maps, and by local tradition. The change to Newport News came about through usage, for by 1851 the Post Office Department sanctioned "New Port News" (three words) as the name of the first post office. In 1866 it approved the name as "Newport News", the current form.[6]

The Neuse River is farther south than I remembered it. I don't live in that area and I must have conflated memories of two different trips I took when I was a kid: one to New Bern and one to Newport News.

[Corrian]

I've noticed Democrats seem confused between "Republicans are acting like they're no longer going to have free and fair elections" and "There will be a blue tsunami in 2018". Not sure how we have a blue tsunami if the elections aren't fair anymore

Or how a Democrat wins in Alabama for that matter.

well you did just have a blatant power grab in Virginia when republicans had judges count what should have been a discarded ballot.

Which is it, though? Blue tsunami or no more fair elections? You can't have both.

I work the polls every November and I can tell you that is clearly an over vote not to mention the voter intent isn't clear. That ballot should not have been counted. If you made and error ask for a new ballot. I dont know how the law is in Virginia but in my state every voter gets three chances to vote in other words three ballots.

Here they tell you what to do if you accidentally wrote the wrong person or changed your mind, so you don't even need to ask for a new one. But you also don't even need to leave your house, so...

[Collatis]

I hope you DISGUSTING DEMS are happy, because now a KNOWN SEX PERVERT has A BUNCH MORE free time on his hands

I love ClickHole.

[Petrasylvania]

I hope you DISGUSTING DEMS are happy, because now a KNOWN SEX PERVERT has A BUNCH MORE free time on his hands

I love ClickHole.

But it turns sad when you know there's enough people who will take that as unironic gospel.

[San Lumen]

well you did just have a blatant power grab in Virginia when republicans had judges count what should have been a discarded ballot.

Which is it, though? Blue tsunami or no more fair elections? You can't have both.

I work the polls every November and I can tell you that is clearly an over vote not to mention the voter intent isn't clear. That ballot should not have been counted. If you made and error ask for a new ballot. I dont know how the law is in Virginia but in my state every voter gets three chances to vote in other words three ballots.

Here they tell you what to do if you accidentally wrote the wrong person or changed your mind, so you don't even need to ask for a new one. But you also don't even need to leave your house, so...

I would love to know what is wrong with the judges that ruled that ballot was valid. Or have judges become to partisan to care about the law?

[Masuicca]

OOH, I love a good questionnaire!

Is there a blue wave mounting in 2018, and is Doug Jones's breathtaking victory in Alabama indicative of one?
I think the win earned by Doug Jones in Alabama is indicative of the potential for a Blue Wave in 2018. The reason I'm bearish on the idea though is the pragmatic argument: there's far more Democrat seats up for re-election where it counts than GOP-held seats. To really set the table for a wave on the level we saw during the last few midterms, you'd need to see the split far more level I think. The truth of the matter is it's really too far out to see what things are going to look like in 2018, because that's when we'll really start to feel the brunt of Trump's activities in earnest.

What message should the Democrats run on in 2018?
The Democrats have to counter the narrative that they're the 'Party for Some People' that the media has played up. 2016 proved that angry voting demographics can exercise a lot of political capital when they want to. True inclusion means going after votes in the inner cities, in the rural and industrial working-class towns, from the coasts to the plains and all points in-between. The DNC has to put out a message that gives everyone a clear, decisive and productive alternative from the Trump agenda.

Should the Democrats even consider attempting to impeach Donald Trump?
Absolutely, unequivocally not, unless the ongoing investigations reveal complicity or other criminal acts (or he does something that clearly warrants it in the future). Talk of impeaching Trump without hard evidence just galvanizes the other side needlessly in my opinion. Plus, just as a general pragmatic rule, we don't want to weaponize impeachment, because once you do that, each side will try to use it on the other in the future, and things will break down even more than they already have.

Can the Democrats stop the Republicans' "Billionaires First" tax bill?
It would appear not.

How should the Democrats handle the ongoing Russia investigation led by Robert Mueller?
I would let it sit, personally. The Democrats need complete separation from Mueller to prevent the Republicans from screaming collusion. They will anyway, but letting the process play out uneventfully helps keep those appearances down.

Should Nancy Pelosi step down as House Minority Leader?
Yes. I've never been a big fan of Pelosi, and think new leadership would reinforce the vision of the Democrats as a party looking forward.

Should the Democrats risk working with the Republicans on infrastructure?
Absolutely! When it comes to generic issues where ideology doesn't play as crucial a role, there's always room for bipartisanship. It's far easier to work across the aisle on something like infrastructure as compared to, say, abortion rights or gun control. Just because partisanship divides the parties on a lot doesn't mean reaching across the aisle is always a bad thing.

Should superdelegates be abolished entirely?
This is... tough. On the one hand, the superdelegates were an instrumental part of Hillary Clinton's nomination over Bernie Sanders, and it created the mentality that Sanders was always trying to play catch up from an insurmountable hole. And the concept of superdelegates is a bit suspect to begin with. On the other hand, we saw what happened on the Republican side when a crazy person got through.

Should anyone care about Martin O'Malley?
I wonder if he's related to Mike O'Malley.

[Blakk Metal]

Which is it, though? Blue tsunami or no more fair elections? You can't have both.


Here they tell you what to do if you accidentally wrote the wrong person or changed your mind, so you don't even need to ask for a new one. But you also don't even need to leave your house, so...

I would love to know what is wrong with the judges that ruled that ballot was valid. Or have judges become to partisan to care about the law?

You say that now, but the minute they do something you like, then you'll be saying that the judiciary is infallible and anyone who challenges it is dangerous and partisan.

[Arlenton]

Hey someone else voted for Polk.

[Major-Tom]

To answer Collatis' questions;


(1. Is there a blue wave mounting in 2018, and is Doug Jones's breathtaking victory in Alabama indicative of one?
- We won't see a wave election like we did in 2006 and 2008. The electoral map currently just isn't indicative of this, even with the GOP being very unpopular. The Dems were very unpopular in 2010 but held onto the Senate simply because of the electoral map (well, in large part). We may see a reversal of this in 2018, where the Dems take the house but fail to win the Senate (like what happened to the GOP during the 2010 midterms). Jones would not have won were it not for the allegations of child molestation against Moore. Moore was as far right as segregationist Dixiecrats in the 1960s, and he would've won if it weren't for those allegations. I'm delighted he lost, but had a generic Republican run against Jones, the results would've been much different.

What message should the Democrats run on in 2018?
- A message of returning working and middle class prosperity, protecting healthcare etc. Trump can also be something to run on, although that cannot be all we run on.

Should the Democrats even consider attempting to impeach Donald Trump?
- This would probably just hurt us more than help us anyways, so no.

Can the Democrats stop the Republicans' "Billionaires First" tax bill?
- Probably not. It would be amazing if we could, but it seems likely to go through.

How should the Democrats handle the ongoing Russia investigation led by Robert Mueller?
- Stay the course, handle it with ongoing integrity.

Should Nancy Pelosi step down as House Minority Leader?
- 110% yes.

Should the Democrats risk working with the Republicans on infrastructure?
- Certainly. Displays of bipartisanship will help our image, and if we get lucky, our country too.

Should superdelegates be abolished entirely?
- Probably. But this won't happen.

Should anyone care about Martin O'Malley?
- Maybe. Lets see what he does in the coming months/years. He is a talented politician and was an above average Governor. Let's see what happens.

[Major-Tom]

OOH, I love a good questionnaire!

Is there a blue wave mounting in 2018, and is Doug Jones's breathtaking victory in Alabama indicative of one?
I think the win earned by Doug Jones in Alabama is indicative of the potential for a Blue Wave in 2018. The reason I'm bearish on the idea though is the pragmatic argument: there's far more Democrat seats up for re-election where it counts than GOP-held seats. To really set the table for a wave on the level we saw during the last few midterms, you'd need to see the split far more level I think. The truth of the matter is it's really too far out to see what things are going to look like in 2018, because that's when we'll really start to feel the brunt of Trump's activities in earnest.

What message should the Democrats run on in 2018?
The Democrats have to counter the narrative that they're the 'Party for Some People' that the media has played up. 2016 proved that angry voting demographics can exercise a lot of political capital when they want to. True inclusion means going after votes in the inner cities, in the rural and industrial working-class towns, from the coasts to the plains and all points in-between. The DNC has to put out a message that gives everyone a clear, decisive and productive alternative from the Trump agenda.

Should the Democrats even consider attempting to impeach Donald Trump?
Absolutely, unequivocally not, unless the ongoing investigations reveal complicity or other criminal acts (or he does something that clearly warrants it in the future). Talk of impeaching Trump without hard evidence just galvanizes the other side needlessly in my opinion. Plus, just as a general pragmatic rule, we don't want to weaponize impeachment, because once you do that, each side will try to use it on the other in the future, and things will break down even more than they already have.

Can the Democrats stop the Republicans' "Billionaires First" tax bill?
It would appear not.

How should the Democrats handle the ongoing Russia investigation led by Robert Mueller?
I would let it sit, personally. The Democrats need complete separation from Mueller to prevent the Republicans from screaming collusion. They will anyway, but letting the process play out uneventfully helps keep those appearances down.

Should Nancy Pelosi step down as House Minority Leader?
Yes. I've never been a big fan of Pelosi, and think new leadership would reinforce the vision of the Democrats as a party looking forward.

Should the Democrats risk working with the Republicans on infrastructure?
Absolutely! When it comes to generic issues where ideology doesn't play as crucial a role, there's always room for bipartisanship. It's far easier to work across the aisle on something like infrastructure as compared to, say, abortion rights or gun control. Just because partisanship divides the parties on a lot doesn't mean reaching across the aisle is always a bad thing.

Should superdelegates be abolished entirely?
This is... tough. On the one hand, the superdelegates were an instrumental part of Hillary Clinton's nomination over Bernie Sanders, and it created the mentality that Sanders was always trying to play catch up from an insurmountable hole. And the concept of superdelegates is a bit suspect to begin with. On the other hand, we saw what happened on the Republican side when a crazy person got through.

Should anyone care about Martin O'Malley?
I wonder if he's related to Mike O'Malley.

This guy hit the nail on the head in many ways, too.

[Corrian]

This is the best ad from Iron Stache I've seen so far

[Myrensis]

This entire thing is just crazy.

I have to agree with Sam Lumen in this case. Why the hell was a ballot written with both candidates in suddenly flipped to one? It should be scrapped if someone can't vote properly.

Virginia Law agrees with you, it's quite clearly a spoiled ballot.

Luckily for the GOP a panel of Republican appointed Judges determined that a ballot marked for both candidates is actually a clear and unambiguous declaration of undying support for the Republican Party.

[Valrifell]

This is the best ad from Iron Stache I've seen so far

I want him to win so badly, mostly because I would kill to see the celebrations on this forum if Ryan gets de-seated.

[Nouveau Yathrib]

US 7th Party System Discussion Thread for those of you interested in how the Democratic coalition and voter blocs are changing.

To answer the OP:
[*]Is there a blue wave mounting in 2018, and is Doug Jones's breathtaking victory in Alabama indicative of one? Maybe, and no.
[*]What message should the Democrats run on in 2018? Working- and middle-class prosperity, healthcare, suburban revitalization, etc. as long as they don't come across as "we're not Trump"
[*]Should the Democrats even consider attempting to impeach Donald Trump? No, unless there's substantial evidence that he is personally involved with electoral fraud or some other violation of the Constitution.
[*]Can the Democrats stop the Republicans' "Billionaires First" tax bill? Probably not before it starts to take effect.
[*]How should the Democrats handle the ongoing Russia investigation led by Robert Mueller? Continue but don't make too big of a deal out of it.
[*]Should Nancy Pelosi step down as House Minority Leader? I don't have a strong opinion on this.
[*]Should the Democrats risk working with the Republicans on infrastructure? Yes, let's not stoop as low as the Tea Party GOP.
[*]Should superdelegates be abolished entirely? No but their influence should be curtailed.
[*]Should anyone care about Martin O'Malley? Sure, let's see if he still intends to run in 2020.

[San Lumen]

I have to agree with Sam Lumen in this case. Why the hell was a ballot written with both candidates in suddenly flipped to one? It should be scrapped if someone can't vote properly.

Virginia Law agrees with you, it's quite clearly a spoiled ballot.

Luckily for the GOP a panel of Republican appointed Judges determined that a ballot marked for both candidates is actually a clear and unambiguous declaration of undying support for the Republican Party.

Well those judges are clearly biased and should have tossed the ballot. I work for the board of elections in my state and I can tell you that ballot would have been tossed in my state.

[Senkaku]

Is there a blue wave mounting in 2018, and is Doug Jones's breathtaking victory in Alabama indicative of one?
Maybe? Senate map is still pretty much as shitty as before, we're on the defensive. I'm hopeful about the House, but I'm not gonna make any bets. Doug Jones was a fluke, his "breathtaking" victory was pretty much entirely attributable to Roy Moore being such an awful person and Steve Bannon's fuckups.

What message should the Democrats run on in 2018?
"Let's try to unfuck things for the middle class"

Should the Democrats even consider attempting to impeach Donald Trump?
Depends on what Mueller comes up with. If there's obstruction of justice, collusion, whatever- then yes. If it's a nothingburger (which it reeeeeeally doesn't seem like it is even based just on what the public already knows), then no.

Can the Democrats stop the Republicans' "Billionaires First" tax bill?
Apparently not. RIP in RIP.

How should the Democrats handle the ongoing Russia investigation led by Robert Mueller?
Let him do his thing, cooperate with it, et cetera.

Should Nancy Pelosi step down as House Minority Leader?
Nah.

Should the Democrats risk working with the Republicans on infrastructure?
Yes. And if they try to do a bait and switch or slip stuff in, they should be ready to walk away.

Should superdelegates be abolished entirely?
No.

Should anyone care about Martin O'Malley?
Also no.