The State of the Democratic Party II

[Cekoviu]

I don't see how that's a good thing, but okay.

So to prevent corruption, we commit electoral fraud?

It would allow a candidate to run and implement their own views, rather than being coerced or warped by party leadership into towing the party line.

They already kind of do that, though. There's a wide range of opinion in both parties: in the Democrats, from social democrats to social conservatives, and in the Republicans, paleolibertarians to neofascists. Of course, there's often a bend towards supporting or opposing the current president depending on the political party, but it's not to the point where you have to conform to a certain viewpoint to get ahead in a party.

>Marine was a Nazi
I don't like her, but really?

Her party is literally Vichy France personified, so yes.

Her party perhaps, but Le Pen herself isn't a Nazi like her father.

The parties don't cause the system, the system causes the parties. Taking them out will just erect new, identical parties in their place.

The parties keep the system up to keep themselves in power.

And if we dismantle the parties without the system, new ones will arise and prop up the system instead.

[Kvatchdom]

It would allow a candidate to run and implement their own views, rather than being coerced or warped by party leadership into towing the party line.

They already kind of do that, though. There's a wide range of opinion in both parties: in the Democrats, from social democrats to social conservatives, and in the Republicans, paleolibertarians to neofascists. Of course, there's often a bend towards supporting or opposing the current president depending on the political party, but it's not to the point where you have to conform to a certain viewpoint to get ahead in a party.

Her party is literally Vichy France personified, so yes.

Her party perhaps, but Le Pen herself isn't a Nazi like her father.

The parties keep the system up to keep themselves in power.

And if we dismantle the parties without the system, new ones will arise and prop up the system instead.

Then why does she keep a party that's tied into Vichy France historically? I don't know if she's a nazi, but I sincerely doubt she'd ever fight against nazis.

I never said you shouldn't get rid of both, but the system is harder to change. Much harder. In fact, it's getting worse.

[Cekoviu]

They already kind of do that, though. There's a wide range of opinion in both parties: in the Democrats, from social democrats to social conservatives, and in the Republicans, paleolibertarians to neofascists. Of course, there's often a bend towards supporting or opposing the current president depending on the political party, but it's not to the point where you have to conform to a certain viewpoint to get ahead in a party.

Her party perhaps, but Le Pen herself isn't a Nazi like her father.

And if we dismantle the parties without the system, new ones will arise and prop up the system instead.

Then why does she keep a party that's tied into Vichy France historically? I don't know if she's a nazi, but I sincerely doubt she'd ever fight against nazis.

Trump wouldn't fight against Nazis, but that doesn't exactly make him a Nazi.

[Telconi]

It would allow a candidate to run and implement their own views, rather than being coerced or warped by party leadership into towing the party line.

They already kind of do that, though. There's a wide range of opinion in both parties: in the Democrats, from social democrats to social conservatives, and in the Republicans, paleolibertarians to neofascists. Of course, there's often a bend towards supporting or opposing the current president depending on the political party, but it's not to the point where you have to conform to a certain viewpoint to get ahead in a party.

Her party is literally Vichy France personified, so yes.

Her party perhaps, but Le Pen herself isn't a Nazi like her father.

The parties keep the system up to keep themselves in power.

And if we dismantle the parties without the system, new ones will arise and prop up the system instead.

That's exactly what it is, if you deviate too far from the cookie cutter "correct" Republican/Democrat you get cut off and undercut by the people nominally on your side.

I mean shoot, there's literally a leadership position in the legislature who's job is to force party members to support the party line...

[Aeken]

They already kind of do that, though. There's a wide range of opinion in both parties: in the Democrats, from social democrats to social conservatives, and in the Republicans, paleolibertarians to neofascists. Of course, there's often a bend towards supporting or opposing the current president depending on the political party, but it's not to the point where you have to conform to a certain viewpoint to get ahead in a party.

Her party perhaps, but Le Pen herself isn't a Nazi like her father.

And if we dismantle the parties without the system, new ones will arise and prop up the system instead.

That's exactly what it is, if you deviate too far from the cookie cutter "correct" Republican/Democrat you get cut off and undercut by the people nominally on your side.

I mean shoot, there's literally a leadership position in the legislature who's job is to force party members to support the party line...

Restricting political organization is just applying a bandage to the structural issues that have caused the two party system in the first place. This is kinda what presidential systems do.

[Telconi]

That's exactly what it is, if you deviate too far from the cookie cutter "correct" Republican/Democrat you get cut off and undercut by the people nominally on your side.

I mean shoot, there's literally a leadership position in the legislature who's job is to force party members to support the party line...

Restricting political organization is just applying a bandage to the structural issues that have caused the two party system in the first place. This is kinda what presidential systems do.

Well sure, the parties are a symptom of the system.

[Improved werpland]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/bernie-sanders-democrats-2018-599331

Bernie Sanders’ top operatives formed “Our Revolution” after he lost the 2016 primaries to keep his army organized and motivated — and potentially prepare for another presidential run in 2020.

But an extensive review of the Sanders-inspired group depicts an organization in disarray — operating primarily as a promotional vehicle for its leader and sometimes even snubbing candidates aligned with Sanders. Our Revolution has shown no ability to tip a major Democratic election in its favor — despite possessing Sanders’ email list, the envy of the Democratic Party — and can claim no major wins in 2018 as its own.

...

Among the findings of POLITICO’s examination of Our Revolution, based on interviews with two dozen sources inside and outside the organization:

Board members and Sanders presidential delegates from 2016 have raised questions about whether the group’s president, Nina Turner, is using her position to prepare for a presidential run of her own, and to settle scores with the Democratic National Committee from 2016.

Two weeks ago, the group’s board of directors nixed Turner’s attempt to install her personal political consultant and friend as her chief of staff, even though the person had no experience in political organizing and had praised President Donald Trump repeatedly and attacked immigrants on Fox News.

Monthly online fundraising totals have plummeted to just one-third of the group's take a year ago, based on an analysis of processing fees reported to the IRS by Act Blue, the tool Our Revolution uses, and verified by several people familiar with its finances. Our Revolution maintains that it’s still running a surplus and that repeat donations are steady.

Amid the poor fundraising, Our Revolution earlier this month filed paperwork to launch a PAC so Sanders can help it raise money directly and so the group can coordinate directly with campaigns.

A founding board member resigned last month, saying Our Revolution wasn’t paying adequate attention to Latino candidates and issues of importance to Latinos.

Surprised nobody posted this here. There always were many posters discussing mismanagement of the DNC on this thread...

[Petrasylvania]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/bernie-sanders-democrats-2018-599331

Bernie Sanders’ top operatives formed “Our Revolution” after he lost the 2016 primaries to keep his army organized and motivated — and potentially prepare for another presidential run in 2020.

But an extensive review of the Sanders-inspired group depicts an organization in disarray — operating primarily as a promotional vehicle for its leader and sometimes even snubbing candidates aligned with Sanders. Our Revolution has shown no ability to tip a major Democratic election in its favor — despite possessing Sanders’ email list, the envy of the Democratic Party — and can claim no major wins in 2018 as its own.

...

Among the findings of POLITICO’s examination of Our Revolution, based on interviews with two dozen sources inside and outside the organization:

Board members and Sanders presidential delegates from 2016 have raised questions about whether the group’s president, Nina Turner, is using her position to prepare for a presidential run of her own, and to settle scores with the Democratic National Committee from 2016.

Two weeks ago, the group’s board of directors nixed Turner’s attempt to install her personal political consultant and friend as her chief of staff, even though the person had no experience in political organizing and had praised President Donald Trump repeatedly and attacked immigrants on Fox News.

Monthly online fundraising totals have plummeted to just one-third of the group's take a year ago, based on an analysis of processing fees reported to the IRS by Act Blue, the tool Our Revolution uses, and verified by several people familiar with its finances. Our Revolution maintains that it’s still running a surplus and that repeat donations are steady.

Amid the poor fundraising, Our Revolution earlier this month filed paperwork to launch a PAC so Sanders can help it raise money directly and so the group can coordinate directly with campaigns.

A founding board member resigned last month, saying Our Revolution wasn’t paying adequate attention to Latino candidates and issues of importance to Latinos.

Surprised nobody posted this here. There always were many posters discussing mismanagement of the DNC on this thread...

Shouldn't be long before someone screams about a Clinton Hit Job on Bernie's group.

[Corrian]

I'm not that surprised to be honest. Everything seems mismanaged.

[The Flutterlands]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/39 ... a-democrat

Do they want Trump to win Again?

[Petrasylvania]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/391459-dnc-panel-adopts-rule-requiring-candidates-to-run-serve-as-a-democrat

Do they want Trump to win Again?

Or the Democrats are insuring they don't get their own Donnie Trump taking over the entire party.

[The Flutterlands]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/391459-dnc-panel-adopts-rule-requiring-candidates-to-run-serve-as-a-democrat

Do they want Trump to win Again?

Or the Democrats are insuring they don't get their own Donnie Trump taking over the entire party.

You mean they don't want Bernie Sanders taking over the party.

[Valrifell]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/391459-dnc-panel-adopts-rule-requiring-candidates-to-run-serve-as-a-democrat

Do they want Trump to win Again?

Friendly reminder that it's entirely normal for members of an organization to want for members of their organization to represent their organization.

Also I'm pretty sure Sanders promised he would switch over to an official Democrat eventually, so there's that.

[G-Tech Corporation]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/391459-dnc-panel-adopts-rule-requiring-candidates-to-run-serve-as-a-democrat

Do they want Trump to win Again?

Damn the comments on that article are hilarious.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

According to seeing a shitton of polls comparing Trump against a number of potential Democratic candidates, Bernie seems to be the only one that has a commanding enough lead. I’m not surprised, since Americans are drinking that populism punch like there is no tomorrow. Eh, I would not vote for any of the candidates listed on there. If Trump keeps his promise on leaving Cannabis legalization to the states, that is three polices(along with his energy and education) that I strongly agree with and enough for me to consider voting for him.

[Petrasylvania]

According to seeing a shitton of polls comparing Trump against a number of potential Democratic candidates, Bernie seems to be the only one that has a commanding enough lead. I’m not surprised, since Americans are drinking that populism punch like there is no tomorrow. Eh, I would not vote for any of the candidates listed on there. If Trump keeps his promise on leaving Cannabis legalization to the states, that is three polices(along with his energy and education) that I strongly agree with and enough for me to consider voting for him.

Which rings hollow with his Attorney General continuing to wage his crusade against The Devil's Lettuce.

[Militant Costco]

Or the Democrats are insuring they don't get their own Donnie Trump taking over the entire party.

You mean they don't want Bernie Sanders taking over the party.

Bernie Sanders is the Donald Trump of the liberals. And we all can see the absolute mess Trump created within the GOP, so I don't fault the DNC for trying to not become the People's Party of America.

[Melvin Reich 2]

Is the democratic party social democratic and republican conservative or is it more complex?

[Christmas Pudding]

Is the democratic party social democratic and republican conservative or is it more complex?

Each party contains a pretty wide range of different ideological groups. The Democrats could be described as a coalition of social democrats (and a small number of democratic socialists), social liberals, liberal centrists and environmentalists/greens. The Democrats also have a strong contingent of minority voters. The Republicans could be described as a coalition of libertarians (right wing liberals), religious social conservatives, traditionalists, and pro-business groups.

The Democrats tend to have more liberal internationalist views on foreign policy (favoring diplomacy and multilateralism), and the Republicans tend to have more realist views on foreign policy (favoring military strength and unilateralism). However, note that there is a lot of variation within the parties on foreign policy, I don't want to overgeneralize.

There is significant bleed over in the middle of these two camps, but politics has been getting more polarized in America, so the number of moderates is shrinking.

Factions of the Democratic Party
Factions of the Republican Party

I hope this helps.

[Conserative Morality]

Bernie Sanders is the Donald Trump of the liberals.

lol

[Christmas Pudding]

Is the democratic party social democratic and republican conservative or is it more complex?

Each party contains a pretty wide range of different ideological groups. The Democrats could be described as a coalition of social democrats (and a small number of democratic socialists), social liberals, liberal centrists and environmentalists/greens. The Democrats also have a strong contingent of minority voters. The Republicans could be described as a coalition of libertarians (right wing liberals), religious social conservatives, traditionalists, and pro-business groups.

The Democrats tend to have more liberal internationalist views on foreign policy (favoring diplomacy and multilateralism), and the Republicans tend to have more realist views on foreign policy (favoring military strength and unilateralism). However, note that there is a lot of variation within the parties on foreign policy, I don't want to overgeneralize.

There is significant bleed over in the middle of these two camps, but politics has been getting more polarized in America, so the number of moderates is shrinking.

Factions of the Democratic Party
Factions of the Republican Party

I hope this helps.

Also, a populist movement within the Republican Party has become more prominent in recent years. This group has nationalist, anti-immigration, and protectionist views. They are similar to the various nationalist and Euroskeptic parties which have been gaining popularity in Europe.

EDIT: Lol I just noticed he's an ex-nation. Whatever, hopefully this is helpful to anyone who had the same question.

[Cekoviu]

According to seeing a shitton of polls comparing Trump against a number of potential Democratic candidates, Bernie seems to be the only one that has a commanding enough lead. I’m not surprised, since Americans are drinking that populism punch like there is no tomorrow. Eh, I would not vote for any of the candidates listed on there. If Trump keeps his promise on leaving Cannabis legalization to the states, that is three polices(along with his energy and education) that I strongly agree with and enough for me to consider voting for him.

Weighing that with him being the laughingstock of the world, an incompetent buffoon, and quite possibly a racist, I'd think you'd be better off voting for a Libertarian.
also >liking Trump's energy and education policies
he made freakin' BETSY DEVOS secretary of education

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

According to seeing a shitton of polls comparing Trump against a number of potential Democratic candidates, Bernie seems to be the only one that has a commanding enough lead. I’m not surprised, since Americans are drinking that populism punch like there is no tomorrow. Eh, I would not vote for any of the candidates listed on there. If Trump keeps his promise on leaving Cannabis legalization to the states, that is three polices(along with his energy and education) that I strongly agree with and enough for me to consider voting for him.

Weighing that with him being the laughingstock of the world, an incompetent buffoon, and quite possibly a racist, I'd think you'd be better off voting for a Libertarian.
also >liking Trump's energy and education policies
he made freakin' BETSY DEVOS secretary of education

Oh, Betsy is dumb as box of rocks. I would choose Michele Rhee as sec.

[Cekoviu]

Weighing that with him being the laughingstock of the world, an incompetent buffoon, and quite possibly a racist, I'd think you'd be better off voting for a Libertarian.
also >liking Trump's energy and education policies
he made freakin' BETSY DEVOS secretary of education

Oh, Betsy is dumb as box of rocks. I would choose Michele Rhee as sec.

I'd argue that the box of rocks is smarter.

[Ngelmish]

Bernie Sanders is the Donald Trump of the liberals.

lol

That goes to far, but it's entirely fair to point out that Sanders was blatantly attempting a hostile takeover of an organization that he has publicly viewed with disdain for years -- because it was the most viable vehicle available. That's not exactly a greenlight for the party to say, "Hey, lets nominate this guy!"

The way he campaigned last time around should disqualify him from serious consideration anyway.