Irreligious Discussion Thread: Welcome to the Nonery!

[Genivaria]

Not in a "gets the most votes" sense.

Universalism is the position that ethical claims bind all similarly situated individuals regardless of factors like culture, race, religion, etc.

so, I don't like it, therefore its wrong?

More like it's a universal problem and is therefore universally condemned.
Anyone could be murdered therefore noone thinks murder should be okay.

When one group of people has power over another suddenly murdering the underclass becomes okay, the city-state of Sparta is a good example.
Feudalism is another.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Personally, I'd say that if a god exists (which IMO it almost certainly doesn't, there is absolutely no indisputable evidence of a god in the religious sense), then they would be, by most of our moral standards, evil. I mean, if you tortured someone to make them "a better person" you would be a monster.

[Methodological Individualism]

Personally, I'd say that if a god exists (which IMO it almost certainly doesn't, there is absolutely no indisputable evidence of a god in the religious sense), then they would be, by most of our moral standards, evil. I mean, if you tortured someone to make them "a better person" you would be a monster.

The only "god" I cannot absolutely deny is one which is simply and wholly uncaring and indifferent. It need not be evil, per se, but merely irrelevant.

Once we start attaching certain other attributes, though, by which "god" must be caring and relevant (omniscience, omnipotence, omnibenevolence), simple observation of our Universe -- full of natural and man-made evils -- makes belief impossibly difficult at best.

[Risottia]

is the Struggle against religion a struggle for socialism?

No.

do Atheist have a duty to oppose religion?

No.

Should Atheism be taught in schools?

No it shouldn't be taught as true, just like religions and theism shouldn't be taught in schools as true. Atheism, theism and religions should be taught as "there are people who think this and that".

is Deism really a form of Atheism?

No.

Can there an Atheist spirituality?

Shinto is an atheist religion. There are atheist variants of Buddhism. So yeah.

does anyone care about what I don't beleive in?

Historically, a lot of people care about what you don't believe in. Even today. In many places you get hated, you get your rights curtailed or in the most extreme cases you can even get killed for failing to show your belief in the locally "true" religion. Examples of various kind and level of discrimination: Brazil, Maldives, Sweden, Algeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, USA, Saudi Arabia...

is there evidence that god does not exist? (joking)

No, because "god" isn't well-defined enough to be a falsifiable hypothesis.

[Aillyria]

so, I don't like it, therefore its wrong?

What does that even mean?

More like murder is wrong, whether I worship God, Allah, or a bowl of spaghetti, since those beliefs are not actually ethically relevant. Rather, the wrongness of murder is due to some other factor which applies to all of us equally.

Though, as universalists, we might debate what that factor actually is. An absolutist might say there is something inherent to the act of murder, in and of itself, which makes it wrong regardless of the circumstances. A consequentialist (a non-absolutist) might argue that the consequences of murder are what make it wrong given a particular circumstance.

A non-universalist, like a nihilist or relativist, however, would deny that there is any factor applying to all of us equally, be it absolutist or not.

From where is this ethics code coming then? A legal framework?

I'm a consequentialist, so I'd say from reason informed by experience.

Makes sense. So for people like you, consequentialists, you view "wrong" as that which has proven to facilitate negative outcomes over time?

[Methodological Individualism]

Makes sense. So for people like you, consequentialists, you view "wrong" as that which has proven to facilitate negative outcomes over time?

There's several flavors, but in general:

Consequentialism is the class of normative ethical theories holding that the consequences of one's conduct are the ultimate basis for any judgment about the rightness or wrongness of that conduct. Thus, from a consequentialist standpoint, a morally right act (or omission from acting) is one that will produce a good outcome, or consequence. In an extreme form, the idea of consequentialism is commonly encapsulated in the saying, "the end justifies the means",[1] meaning that if a goal is morally important enough, any method of achieving it is acceptable.[2]

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism)

People frequently get thrown by "the end justifies the means," claiming that consequentialism would be automatially OK with racist holocausts and the like. I personally cannot think of a good/utility that would justify a racist holocaust, of course, and I suspect no such good/utility in fact exists, but that doesn't seem to stop the claim.

But "the end justifies the means" essentially captures it, if in an extremely oversimplified, and so somewhat tricky, way.

[Aillyria]

Makes sense. So for people like you, consequentialists, you view "wrong" as that which has proven to facilitate negative outcomes over time?

There's several flavors, but in general:

Consequentialism is the class of normative ethical theories holding that the consequences of one's conduct are the ultimate basis for any judgment about the rightness or wrongness of that conduct. Thus, from a consequentialist standpoint, a morally right act (or omission from acting) is one that will produce a good outcome, or consequence. In an extreme form, the idea of consequentialism is commonly encapsulated in the saying, "the end justifies the means",[1] meaning that if a goal is morally important enough, any method of achieving it is acceptable.[2]

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism)

People frequently get thrown by "the end justifies the means," claiming that consequentialism would be automatially OK with racist holocausts and the like. I personally cannot think of a good/utility that would justify a racist holocaust, of course, and I suspect no such good/utility in fact exists, but that doesn't seem to stop the claim.

But "the end justifies the means" essentially captures it, if in an extremely oversimplified, and so somewhat tricky, way.

Very interesting. Actually, this describes my view of things in some ways.

[Senkaku]

can there be a poll option for "atheist, but like not a dick about it, live ur life"

[Minoa]

Why do we need a thread for this? I'm mostly asking as a personal question rather than as a mod because I am atheist and I don't see the point of it.

My personal view is what is the purpose of believing in religion, when so many bad things happen in the world today?

If religion worked, all the bad things should have been resolved by now.

Also, no Christmas for me: there is no purpose of the holiday for me, when there is nothing to hope for as a disabled person trapped in a country hostile to disabled people as a result of the austerity measures, even if the holiday itself was not as heavily commercialised as now.*

*Extra: also add on the likelihood that our generation faces a life of debt, low-paid jobs and little to no hope of ever owning a home (due to the monstrous starting prices), despite many of them putting a valiant effort to avoid it.

[Kenmoria]

I made this thread to talk about things like atheism/agnosticism, criticism of religion, skepticism, separation of church and state issues, living as a non religious person in a religious culture or family, and things of that nature.

As an atheist, Is ompletely support this thread idea. However, it needs much more of an opening post to avoid being locked. For example, a conversation starter like "Do you think evolution should be the only method of creation taught in schools?".

[Aellex]

Why do we need a thread for this? I'm mostly asking as a personal question rather than as a mod because I am atheist and I don't see the point of it.

My personal view is what is the purpose of believing in religion, when so many bad things happen in the world today?

If religion worked, all the bad things should have been resolved by now.

Also, no Christmas for me: there is no purpose of the holiday for me, when there is nothing to hope for as a disabled person trapped in a country hostile to disabled people as a result of the austerity measures, even if the holiday itself was not as heavily commercialised as now.*

*Extra: also add on the likelihood that our generation faces a life of debt, low-paid jobs and little to no hope of ever owning a home (due to the monstrous starting prices), despite many of them putting a valiant effort to avoid it.

Yeah, yeah, we're having it so rough compared to the peoples a couple hundred years ago when the average life expectancy was 40 years, one out of three child died before reaching adulthood and a slight cut could mean death or amputation among many, many other fun things.
Poor us, truly.

[The Alma Mater]

My personal view is what is the purpose of believing in religion, when so many bad things happen in the world today?

If religion worked, all the bad things should have been resolved by now.

Also, no Christmas for me: there is no purpose of the holiday for me, when there is nothing to hope for as a disabled person trapped in a country hostile to disabled people as a result of the austerity measures, even if the holiday itself was not as heavily commercialised as now.*

*Extra: also add on the likelihood that our generation faces a life of debt, low-paid jobs and little to no hope of ever owning a home (due to the monstrous starting prices), despite many of them putting a valiant effort to avoid it.

Yeah, yeah, we're having it so rough compared to the peoples a couple hundred years ago when the average life expectancy was 40 years, one out of three child died before reaching adulthood and a slight cut could mean death or amputation among many, many other fun things.
Poor us, truly.

True, but that is all thanks to stopping to trust in god to fix stuff but doing it ourselves

[Darussalam]

My personal view is what is the purpose of believing in religion, when so many bad things happen in the world today?

If religion worked, all the bad things should have been resolved by now.

Also, no Christmas for me: there is no purpose of the holiday for me, when there is nothing to hope for as a disabled person trapped in a country hostile to disabled people as a result of the austerity measures, even if the holiday itself was not as heavily commercialised as now.*

*Extra: also add on the likelihood that our generation faces a life of debt, low-paid jobs and little to no hope of ever owning a home (due to the monstrous starting prices), despite many of them putting a valiant effort to avoid it.

Yeah, yeah, we're having it so rough compared to the peoples a couple hundred years ago when the average life expectancy was 40 years, one out of three child died before reaching adulthood and a slight cut could mean death or amputation among many, many other fun things.
Poor us, truly.

Not seeing how this is relevant, honestly. Supposedly under the same logic it just makes religion even more ineffective in alleviating suffering. Not that it's really the purpose of religion, though.

[Jormengand]

"Do you think evolution should be the only method of creation taught in schools?".

I still cannot fathom how the answer to the question "Do you believe that the truth should be taught in schools" is a controversial one, honestly.

[Aellex]

True, but that is all thanks to stopping to trust in god to fix stuff but doing it ourselves

Tcha, tcha, tcha. That's heathen talk!

[Sapientia Et Bellum]

What up? Not an atheist, I am a pretty fervent southern Baptist who recently finished reading the new testament... up to chat though

[United Massachusetts]

Is atheism a religion?

[The Alma Mater]

Is atheism a religion?

In theory - no. But in practice you will find quite a few atheists who have glorified their nonbelief to the same level as theists have elevated their deities.

So.. it depends

[The Alma Mater]

I'm inclined to agree here.

While there's nothing wrong with having an irreligious thread, there's very little discuss concerning a lack of belief in something, unless the thread serves as a possible umbrella thread for overall irreligious issues and curiosities, such as:

The Irreligious and Religion itself: There are some who are irreligious who greatly dislike religion, whilst there are those who actively attend churches or religious services as a community or cultural activity, or actively identify with a spiritual side that's not religious.
Religiousness and the law: Take the seven states in the US that have laws that prohibit atheists to run for elected office, or the heavily prevalent religious overtones in greater politics around the world.

Ummm... That's all I got really atm?

is the Struggle against religion a struggle for socialism?
do Atheist have a duty to oppose religion?
Should Atheism be taught in schools?
is Deism really a form of Atheism?
Can there an Atheist spirituality?
does anyone care about what I don't beleive in?
is there evidence that god does not exist? (joking)

What should we do about the ever increasing persecution of atheists and humanists around the globe ?

[Tule]

Add "Apatheist" to the poll.

I really don't care about this religion stuff.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

True, but that is all thanks to stopping to trust in god to fix stuff but doing it ourselves

Wat. Have you been talking to the Westboro Baptist Church? Best not go near that lot.

[Sapientia Et Bellum]

True, but that is all thanks to stopping to trust in god to fix stuff but doing it ourselves

Wat. Have you been talking to the Westboro Baptist Church? Best not go near that lot.

They picketed my high school some years back (Im a Kansas guy), it was a small protest but a good counter protest occured

[The Alma Mater]

Add "Apatheist" to the poll.

I really don't care about this religion stuff.

"Misotheist' might also fit - the belief that gods at best see us as we see ants.

[Jormengand]

Is atheism a religion?

No. There are atheistic religions (Buddhism, Laveyan Satanism, and to an extent Humanism) but atheism itself isn't a religion. It holds one truth and no practices; it is a single answer to a single question and is no more a religion than belief in gravity or belief in air or disbelief in a flat earth or disbelief in giant firebreathing lizards ignorant of the square/cube law.

[Dejanic]

Why do we need a thread for this? I'm mostly asking as a personal question rather than as a mod because I am atheist and I don't see the point of it.

It's kind of weird how some don't believe in religion and are quite anti-theistic, but make a personal identity and belief system (almost like a religion?) out of their non belief.