Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day

[El-Amin Caliphate]

We actually need Hiroshima rememberance day and Nagasaki to be fair.
Using nukes is to me a war crime. I won't say it shouldn't or should have been done but it deserves remembrance day regardless due to being two of the worst attacks in history, the Japanese never thought such a devastating weapon would be used on their civilians.
My only worry is Japanese nationalists will use this to claim innocence or that the USA was the bad guy...

The firebombings were worse tbh

It was technically unprovoked, because the United States had made no influential intentions of declaring war or joining the war besides lend leasing the Allies. However, I believe that the Japanese did do it because of FDR trying to join the war one way or the other.

It absolutely was because of FDR and his policies that they attacked us. He'd continually poked and prodded Japan and when we cut off things like oil shipments that pretty much confirmed to them that we were the enemy. He was also quite antagonistic towards Germany.

I knew there was a backstory to Pearl Harbor.
The US once again shows its bad side.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The firebombings were worse tbh



It absolutely was because of FDR and his policies that they attacked us. He'd continually poked and prodded Japan and when we cut off things like oil shipments that pretty much confirmed to them that we were the enemy. He was also quite antagonistic towards Germany.

I knew there was a backstory to Pearl Harbor.
The US once again shows its bad side.

While I have a quite burning hatred for FDR we were saints compared to Japan and Germany.

[North Coldmont]

Not trying to be offensive with this post, but I couldn't not do this:

[Ethel mermania]

We actually need Hiroshima rememberance day and Nagasaki to be fair.
Using nukes is to me a war crime. I won't say it shouldn't or should have been done but it deserves remembrance day regardless due to being two of the worst attacks in history, the Japanese never thought such a devastating weapon would be used on their civilians.
My only worry is Japanese nationalists will use this to claim innocence or that the USA was the bad guy...

The firebombings were worse tbh

It was technically unprovoked, because the United States had made no influential intentions of declaring war or joining the war besides lend leasing the Allies. However, I believe that the Japanese did do it because of FDR trying to join the war one way or the other.

It absolutely was because of FDR and his policies that they attacked us. He'd continually poked and prodded Japan and when we cut off things like oil shipments that pretty much confirmed to them that we were the enemy. He was also quite antagonistic towards Germany.

It was Japanese policy to kill rape and pillage Korean and the Chinese people. Not exactly the kind of folks we should be selling oil and scrap iron too.

[The Ozark Fronteir]

Would rather have the Americans then the Japanese, however.

Do you meant that you'd rather have the US win the war than the Japanese?

Yeah. 100%

[NERVUN]

The firebombings were worse tbh



It absolutely was because of FDR and his policies that they attacked us. He'd continually poked and prodded Japan and when we cut off things like oil shipments that pretty much confirmed to them that we were the enemy. He was also quite antagonistic towards Germany.

I knew there was a backstory to Pearl Harbor.
The US once again shows its bad side.

The poking and prodding of 'poor Japan' was due to Japan's invasion of China... People who bring up the oil and scrap embargo tend to gloss over this fact. It wasn't as if the US woke up one morning and said "Well now, let's annoy Japan!" It was due to a war that had been going on since 1937) Also forgotten, in which the US had been attempting to negotiate a stop to.

[The Two Jerseys]

Not trying to be offensive with this post, but I couldn't not do this:

(Image)

That grammar!

Where's a kamikaze Mitsubishi driver when you need one?

[The Transhuman Union]

It was technically unprovoked, because the United States had made no influential intentions of declaring war or joining the war besides lend leasing the Allies. However, I believe that the Japanese did do it because of FDR trying to join the war one way or the other.

I believe FDR realized the war would boost the USA economy dramatically and would thus drag the USA out of the depression once and for all.
Clever bastard.

Umm, no, the US was out of the Depression before Pearl Harbor, in fact unemployment began to fall as soon as 1938, and in 1940 following France's fall, the American economy began to grow steadily. The war itself led to the America's economic boom and confirmed it as a #1 industrial power.

[Sovaal]

Would rather have the Americans then the Japanese, however.

Do you meant that you'd rather have the US win the war than the Japanese?

Yes.

[Sovaal]

Don't say that, that's a slur

Nips?

Nips and dip.

[Sovaal]

It was hardly unprovoked. FDR had been trying for some time to join the war.

It was technically unprovoked, because the United States had made no influential intentions of declaring war or joining the war besides lend leasing the Allies. However, I believe that the Japanese did do it because of FDR trying to join the war one way or the other.

If I remember correctly, US embargoes on Japan for invading French Indochina where what made them decide to attack us.

[Ethel mermania]

It was technically unprovoked, because the United States had made no influential intentions of declaring war or joining the war besides lend leasing the Allies. However, I believe that the Japanese did do it because of FDR trying to join the war one way or the other.

If I remember correctly, US embargoes on Japan for invading French Indochina where what made them decide to attack us.

It may hae been the proximate cause, but Issues were going on during the 30's.

A little background for folks reading this thread.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_ ... arl_Harbor

[Sovaal]

We actually need Hiroshima rememberance day and Nagasaki to be fair.
Using nukes is to me a war crime. I won't say it shouldn't or should have been done but it deserves remembrance day regardless due to being two of the worst attacks in history, the Japanese never thought such a devastating weapon would be used on their civilians.
My only worry is Japanese nationalists will use this to claim innocence or that the USA was the bad guy...

The firebombings were worse tbh

Something something but noocyular wappons! something something.

[Cetacea]

Technically the Japs planned on attacking even before that. Right outside of the harbor a few hours before the first wave of planes was launched, a small Ko- hyotekio-class midget sub was sunk by the USS Ward, which was technically the first shot fired during the tragedy at Pearl Harbor.

Pearl Harbour wasn't a suprise attack, it was a retalliation that can be traced back to December 6, 1884 when the Americans forced the Kingdom of Hawaii to surrender Pu'uloa so it could build the Pearl Harbour Naval Base. The annexation of the Kingdom of Hawaii, disruption of Japanese interest in the kingdom and the expansion of the US Navy presence in the Pacific was a direct provocation to Japan that justified a strike.

Let us remember Ka’ahupahau and the many Hawaiians who objected to having a US Naval Base on their island

[NeoOasis]

Technically the Japs planned on attacking even before that. Right outside of the harbor a few hours before the first wave of planes was launched, a small Ko- hyotekio-class midget sub was sunk by the USS Ward, which was technically the first shot fired during the tragedy at Pearl Harbor.

Pearl Harbour wasn't a suprise attack, it was a retalliation that can be traced back to December 6, 1884 when the Americans forced the Kingdom of Hawaii to surrender Pu'uloa so it could build the Pearl Harbour Naval Base. The annexation of the Kingdom of Hawaii, disruption of Japanese interest in the kingdom and the expansion of the US Navy presence in the Pacific was a direct provocation to Japan that justified a strike.

Let us remember Ka’ahupahau and the many Hawaiians who objected to having a US Naval Base on their island

I'd argue that's one hell of a stretch, and at that point why not go back to 1853 when Admiral Perry forced Japan out of isolationism and into the world stage?

Most commonly accepted argument I've heard is Japan was pushed into the war by the Imperial Japanese Army after the US banned the export of scrap metal and oil to Japan. That was in reaction to the beginning of the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937.

By and large thanks to some idiocy on the part of the Japanese government, the attack was meant to happen after Japan handed the US a formal declaration of war, but thanks to some embassy shuffling, they had issues with doing that until well after the fact. Yet, the US was able to intercept the message, and translate it before the Japanese Embassy was able to. Needless to say the message was intercepted in time, but I recall the warning sent either didn't arrive in time, or was kind of ignored. I'd say surprise attack, underhanded move, but maybe not a war crime. Highly arguable thanks to what the Tokyo Trials ultimately ended up being. Tragic regardless of what you want to call it.


The amount of destruction the US military experienced was thanks in large part to Admiral Kimmel's and General Short's failures and misunderstandings of the situation.

[Genivaria]

According to Alternate History Hub they think that if Japan didn't bring the US into the war then the Soviet Union would dominate most of the world.

[Genivaria]

The firebombings were worse tbh



It absolutely was because of FDR and his policies that they attacked us. He'd continually poked and prodded Japan and when we cut off things like oil shipments that pretty much confirmed to them that we were the enemy. He was also quite antagonistic towards Germany.

I knew there was a backstory to Pearl Harbor.
The US once again shows its bad side.

'bad side'
"We're not going to let you use our resources for your imperialism." = bad side?

[NERVUN]

The Soviet Union had a much more effective strategy and military, in 1942 that is.

... Keep throwing people at the problem until the problem goes away?

[The Black Forrest]

Rather then start a new thread.

Something interesting. Guy buys an abandoned storage unit and discovers a trove of letters written between three brothers throughout the war.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... t-national

[The Black Forrest]

... Keep throwing people at the problem until the problem goes away?

Hey, better than the Nazis and Japanese, the Japanese had a terrible military strategy(But were great at tactics), the Nazis were alright but couldn't take out all of the USSR if they tried.
FDR would no doubt keep up lend lease and selling stuff to boost the economy which would help the USSR.
It'd take longer, but the Nazis and Japanese would lose.

Take away lend lease and the war would go on even longer. Eliminate the rest of the Allies and the war would go on much longer.

[The Black Forrest]

Take away lend lease and the war would go on even longer.

Yup. But the Nazis would lose, it was inevitable.
The South Americans may have had more impact perhaps, the Chinese, Arabs, maybe Turks, and Australians+Canadians as well.

Sure. With those pesky allies they did loose.

But Soviet worship is not part of a thread of Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.....

[Senkaku]

Pearl Harbor was an inside job

#FDRwasatraitor

Are you a traitor if you win the war you conspired to start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrxCAt5CGp0

[The Black Forrest]

Pearl Harbor was an inside job

#FDRwasatraitor

Are you a traitor if you win the war you conspired to start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrxCAt5CGp0

They probably think him a traitor for starting Social Security and the New Deal.....

[NERVUN]

... Keep throwing people at the problem until the problem goes away?

Hey, better than the Nazis and Japanese, the Japanese had a terrible military strategy(But were great at tactics), the Nazis were alright but couldn't take out all of the USSR if they tried.
FDR would no doubt keep up lend lease and selling stuff to boost the economy which would help the USSR.
It'd take longer, but the Nazis and Japanese would lose.

Point being that overwhelm your opponent in numbers isn't exactly a innovative strategy.

This isn't to say that various USSR commanders were not top of their game, they were, but... really. The casualties were appalling.

[Iverna]

According to Alternate History Hub they think that if Japan didn't bring the US into the war then the Soviet Union would dominate most of the world.

I'd honestly doubt it. This assumed morale is sustained by sheer love of fatherland and the revolution alone.

---

It was not a tragedy, it was an act of war.

The war itself was the tragedy. But had they not bombed Pearl Harbor or had the USA stayed out, the Asia Pacific as we know it would have been much more different.