Trump just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's Capital

[Western-Ukraine]

Concerning the latter.. too bad. Middle-Eastern conflicts about land aren't much of my concern. Israel is preferable anyway, and I do not care about international agreements.

[MERIZoC]

Jews have lived in Israel for as long as Israel's existed, which is about 70 years.

hey here is an idea, why not give it to the Italians, the successors to rome, afterall they were a roman province.

I tend not to like colonialists in general, Jewish and Roman alike.

[Bakery Hill]

Best idea I've ever heard, tbh.

You have too much faith in Israel.

considering they already are good on civil rights and letting people worship, yeah I would put faith in israel, I would certainly not give it to the palestinians, that would just be asking for more death.

> good on civil rights

okay that's a bit too far

[Cetacea]

Jerusalem isn't only the holy city of the Jews, Christians and Muslims revere it as our holy city too. I don't think anyone living there should be forced out. The holy city shouldn't belong to anyone.

well, the only realistic scenario is to give it to Israel anyways, because the other side would most definatley NOT honor such a deal and there is literally no evidence to suggest that they would treat jews and christians equally if it was under palestinian control.

which is how Israel treats Palestinian Muslims born in Jerusalem, despite them being 40% of the Jerusalem population, half of the citizenship applications by East Jerusalemite have been denied. Instead they are defined as foreign residents who cannot vote in national elections, apply for an Israeli passport, or run for mayor - So much for Democracy

[Infected Mushroom]

Trump: "The government of Israel has its HQ in Jerusalem, everything is being done from there. Logically, Jerusalem is Israel's capital."

Democrats: "Trump how dare you. Now the Muslim world is going to be very angry and they are going to protest and blow things up. Trump BAD."

Trump: "Then its time we deal with the problem of the Muslim world."

Democrats:

"No...

Muslim world = victim. You = bad.

Muslim world blow things up = Muslim world bad, but Trump more bad (and Trump equally at fault if not more at fault)

Muslim world not blow things up = Muslim world being very understanding, Trump still bad

Israel's government HQ is in Jerusalem, Israel is being governed from Jerusalem, Jerusalem is Israel's choice of capital, Jerusalem is sitting inside Israel on every map = Irrelevant (because Muslim world would get angry)"

[The Alma Mater]

Trump: "The government of Israel has its HQ in Jerusalem, everything is being done from there. Logically, Jerusalem is Israel's capital."

Democrats: "Trump how dare you. Now the Muslim world is going to be very angry and they are going to protest and blow things up. Trump BAD."

Trump: "Then its time we deal with the problem of the Muslim world."

Democrats:

"No...

Muslim world = victim. You = bad.

Muslim world blow things up = Muslim world bad, but Trump more bad (and Trump equally at fault if not more at fault)

Muslim world not blow things up = Muslim world being very understanding, Trump still bad

Replace "Democrats" with "just about every government on the planet" and it is quite accurate

[The Alma Mater]

As an European, I fully support this move. Islam (especially political) has been nothing but a nuisance here in Europe and I relate to the Israeli struggle as they are surrounded by fanatics. Hence it is verily in my ideological interests to support any move angering the Muslims and helping a pro-West Israel. Israel is not perfect, and I have no grand feelings about Judaism, but Israel is preferrable to Palestine.

looool
here's the problem
if you support palestine, you should know you support terrorism.
if you support israel, you should know you support stealing other peoples land.

So ? The USA is founded entirely on stolen land. Where did you get the silly idea they would oppose that ?

[The Confederacy of Nationalism]

I hope the third intifada actually happens.

[The Conez Imperium]

Oh this argument. You do realise I said facilitate peace through dialogue. I never said the UN can make peace nor can the UN make the world a better place. That job falls on each country within the UN. The UN isn't perfect, every diplomat and person knows this. The Rwanda crisis (UN peacekeeping) being a perfect example. We all know this. But we continue to use the UN because talking with other countries in a respected forum is bloody useful.

As for success of the UN, eradicating smallpox (done by the WHO).. A better example would be protecting the Ozone. Also do note that the UN couldn't legislate the 24 nations to ban CFC.



A success of the UN could be seen in their role in the Israel/Palestinian crisis. Who should moderate such a contentious issue? Why not get an organisation that represents the international community?

Successes in maintaining peace. Ooh the last successes you gave in making the world a better place: would have been in the 1980s. Smallpox ? 1979. I can think of only one example where a direct intervention stopped a very problematic situation. And that was in Korea in the 1950. So what you have is empty paperwork and you might just as well get rid of it and leave it to individual nations or blocks of similar nations. If countries have an issue with each other, they can always sort it out through the Permanent Court of Arbitration (which, frankly, is much more of a success story).

So your reasoning for removing the UN is that it doesn't have enough success (we need more wars to see the success of the UN?) and its still "empty paperwork" even thought it helped co-ordinate the Montreal Protocol...not exactly stellar argument. Also I'm happy that you know understand that the UN's role isn't to create peace (it would very much like so but that's unrealistic)

Anyway to relate this back to topic, if you think the UN should be removed, who should moderate the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

[Infected Mushroom]

Trump: "The government of Israel has its HQ in Jerusalem, everything is being done from there. Logically, Jerusalem is Israel's capital."

Democrats: "Trump how dare you. Now the Muslim world is going to be very angry and they are going to protest and blow things up. Trump BAD."

Trump: "Then its time we deal with the problem of the Muslim world."

Democrats:

"No...

Muslim world = victim. You = bad.

Muslim world blow things up = Muslim world bad, but Trump more bad (and Trump equally at fault if not more at fault)

Muslim world not blow things up = Muslim world being very understanding, Trump still bad

Replace "Democrats" with "just about every government on the planet" and it is quite accurate

Since the concern is that "Muslims will take it out on you" rather than anything wrong with the statement itself...

the rest of the world (all other governments) should either shut their mouths or else also declare that Jerusalem is the capital. Or else they are just being hypocrites who refuse to address the actual problem of Islamic extremism...

If everyone just came out and said the truth, Muslims can't take it out on EVERYONE now can they?

Say what you will about Israel, but at least when we speak truths there isn't a threat of Israeli-led bombings. The Islamic world needs to learn that we will no longer bow down to their illegitimate tactics.

"Limit how much you support Israel or speak the truth or We Will Bomb You" is not a legitimate dialogue. Its the behaviour of a rogue agent and there should be zero tolerance for it.

[The Alma Mater]

Since the concern is that "Muslims will take it out on you" rather than anything wrong with the statement itself...

Technically, the concern is that the possibility of dividing Jerusalem - which has been a cornerstone of the peacetalks for the past few decades - is now off the table if big countries like the USA will take the "Jerusalem is the indivisble capitol of Israel" stance.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Since the concern is that "Muslims will take it out on you" rather than anything wrong with the statement itself...

Technically, the concern is that the possibility of dividing Jerusalem - which has been a cornerstone of the peacetalks for the past few decades - is now off the table if big countries like the USA will take the "Jerusalem is the indivisble capitol of Israel" stance.

Reading Trump’s statement and analysis yesterday though, isn’t that exactly the position that the US very specifically hasn’t taken?

[The Federal Kingdom Of Zuhi]

Get ready for some more terrorism. *sigh*.

[Sovaal]

Get ready for some more terrorism. *sigh*.

I doubt we've pissed off the terrorists anymore with this the we've already have.

[The Federal Kingdom Of Zuhi]

Get ready for some more terrorism. *sigh*.

I doubt we've pissed off the terrorists anymore with this the we've already have.

We prolly have. I'm expecting some more religious wars. I believe the Palestinians are already fighting with the Israelis over this.

[Sovaal]

I doubt we've pissed off the terrorists anymore with this the we've already have.

We prolly have.

I doubt it.

I'm expecting some more religious wars.

besides the ones already going on with ISIS?

I believe the Palestinians are already fighting with the Israelis over this.

The Palestinians have always been fighting with the Israelis.

[The Federal Kingdom Of Zuhi]

I doubt it.

Well I doubt your doubt, so.

besides the ones already going on with ISIS?

I mean, yeah? We probally won't have another terrorist organization, but certainly terrorism.

The Palestinians have always been fighting with the Israelis

Yeah, and?

[Sovaal]

I doubt it.

Well I doubt your doubt, so.

besides the ones already going on with ISIS?

I mean, yeah? We probally won't have another terrorist organization, but certainly terrorism.

The Palestinians have always been fighting with the Israelis

Yeah, and?

The ME is already a dumpster fire, not much worse it can get with just this.

[Magnus Germania]

I still don't see how Jerusalem can't be Israel's capital. Or how it can start a whole bloody war. I'm extremely neutral on the whole thing.

[Thermodolia]

Trump: "The government of Israel has its HQ in Jerusalem, everything is being done from there. Logically, Jerusalem is Israel's capital."

Democrats: "Trump how dare you. Now the Muslim world is going to be very angry and they are going to protest and blow things up. Trump BAD."

Trump: "Then its time we deal with the problem of the Muslim world."

Democrats:

"No...

Muslim world = victim. You = bad.

Muslim world blow things up = Muslim world bad, but Trump more bad (and Trump equally at fault if not more at fault)

Muslim world not blow things up = Muslim world being very understanding, Trump still bad

Replace "Democrats" with "just about every government on the planet" and it is quite accurate

Ya considering that this has wide bipartisan support I wouldn't blame this on rthe democrats

[Magnus Germania]

Well I doubt your doubt, so.



I mean, yeah? We probally won't have another terrorist organization, but certainly terrorism.



Yeah, and?

The ME is already a dumpster fire, not much worse it can get with just this.

Honestly, Middle East and Peace can't even fit in the same sentence. The whole place is just a constant war zone. It's getting to the point where I think we should just put them out of their misery.

[Sovaal]

The ME is already a dumpster fire, not much worse it can get with just this.

Honestly, Middle East and Peace can't even fit in the same sentence. The whole place is just a constant war zone. It's getting to the point where I think we should just put them out of their misery.

Eh, I wouldn't go to the point of "putting them out of their misery" so much as "just leave them alone to decide if they want to die or not".

[Thermodolia]

The ME is already a dumpster fire, not much worse it can get with just this.

Honestly, Middle East and Peace can't even fit in the same sentence. The whole place is just a constant war zone. It's getting to the point where I think we should just put them out of their misery.

Nah. Just give Palestine, Gaza, the Golan heights, and Lebanon to Israel

[The Federal Kingdom Of Zuhi]

Honestly, Middle East and Peace can't even fit in the same sentence. The whole place is just a constant war zone. It's getting to the point where I think we should just put them out of their misery.

Eh, I wouldn't go to the point of "putting them out of their misery" so much as "just leave them alone to decide if they want to die or not".

^

[Minoa]

Right now I am not advocating anything beyond the peace process due to the delicate situation that requires careful negotiation: the last thing I want to do is back something that would end up causing conflict to break out, because that would only end in regret and tears.