Trump just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's Capital

[Conserative Morality]

Buying land is not illegal.

Never said it was. It was, however, a clear indication that international Zionist interests (wow, I can't believe I got to use that phrase unironically) had strong intentions of extending the land viable for reclamation by a proposed Jewish state as far as they could.

As to the rest, there was indeed a strong terrorist group that focused a great deal on the British.

A convenient way to ignore the fact that the Palestinians and Jews were at each others throats since the 20s.

The funny thing, the Jewish illegal immigration at the time was not all that different from the Arab immigration today...only the Jews where not going for economic opportunity.

They were going for ethnic cleansing. How wonderful.

[Risen Prussia]

The state of Israel can be thought of as a successor state to the Biblical Israel, because Israel would not have won independence without in part, divine intervention from Yahweh. At least, I think that is how they defeated all of their Arab neighbors invading them with what was then superior weaponry.

I totally agree!

I know Israel will come back in time as it is supported by God (also 3rd temple)

[Thermodolia]

Eh Reform Jews are pretty Zionistic, and I should know. URJ is pretty much on board with Zionism

Reform Jews went from being mostly ambivalent about Israel before the Six-Day War to being strongly supportive after.

Whoops. Next time I should read posts better. I thought you where talking about now not back then. Silly me.

[Conserative Morality]

Mayhap the Palestinians should have undertaken a course of action that didn't involve literal ethnic cleansing.

"We're going to take your land and make it a Jewish state but it's not ethnic cleansing because we're the oppressed ones. =^^^)"

19th century Zionism was very inclusive. Post-WW1 Zionism, not so much.

[Principality of the Raix]

Mayhap the Palestinians should have undertaken a course of action that didn't involve literal ethnic cleansing.

"We're going to take your land and make it a Jewish state but it's not ethnic cleansing because we're the oppressed ones. =^^^)"

19th century Zionism was very inclusive. Post-WW1 Zionism, not so much.

I can only agree, as this is true as it occurred within the Soviet Union. If you look at the U.S.S.R leadership there is no "pure" russians, only jews and jewish russians running the country.

[Albangary]

So basically, invading Israel is suicide.

[Neutraligon]

Mayhap the Palestinians should have undertaken a course of action that didn't involve literal ethnic cleansing.

"We're going to take your land and make it a Jewish state but it's not ethnic cleansing because we're the oppressed ones. =^^^)"

19th century Zionism was very inclusive. Post-WW1 Zionism, not so much.

I don't seem to recall the Jews planning on kicking the Palestinains out of their homes. In fact I seem to recall a great deal of Arabs pushing the Palestinians to leave so they could massacre the Jews. Until then, the land was not Palestinian...it was british.

Of course, I could be forgetting my admittedly very long ago learned history.

[Cetacea]

So...how long has a country called Israel existed?

A few hundred years, northern modern day Israel and Palestine was Israel until Assyrians.

The State of Israel has only existed since 1948

it can't claim continuity from the Kingdom of Israel established 1000BCE and destroyed in 720BCE.
since then its been Hasmonean Kingdom, Judea, the Jewish Commonwealth, the Kingdon of Jerusalem, and many other titles.
The first use of the name Palestine is 5th Century when Herodotus refers to the district of Syria called Palestine which likely is the same as the 20th Dynasty Egyptian reference to the people of Peleset (p-l-s-t)

[Thermodolia]

So basically, invading Israel is suicide.

Quite literally. Especially considering the Sampson option

[Ostroeuropa]

The state of Israel can be thought of as a successor state to the Biblical Israel, because Israel would not have won independence without in part, divine intervention from Yahweh. At least, I think that is how they defeated all of their Arab neighbors invading them with what was then superior weaponry.

It's more to do with the endemic problems arab culture has with organized warfare due to corruption and instability issues.

Superior weapons mean shit in that context. That the jews used basic guns and militias is in fact a massive advantage over a military where there's a dozen generals all picked specifically because they're too incompetent to coup the country all trying to lead the army to glory that they'll use to coup the country in a revolt, and all with a vested interest in disagreeing with the other generals and advancing their own "brilliant" plan of attack to hog that glory.

This is why arab nations have lost wars for a long, long time. It's something some of them are starting to recognize.

Incidentally, this kind of shit helped kill rome too.

When did the Arabs manage to "fight back" against the west in the modern era?
When arabs got sick of listening to their leaders deliberately picked to be morons and started attacking us independent of their military organizations.

[Collatis]

"We're going to take your land and make it a Jewish state but it's not ethnic cleansing because we're the oppressed ones. =^^^)"

19th century Zionism was very inclusive. Post-WW1 Zionism, not so much.

I can only agree, as this is true as it occurred within the Soviet Union. If you look at the U.S.S.R leadership there is no "pure" russians, only jews and jewish russians running the country.

I'm sure Conserative Morality will be overjoyed to have your support.

[Sanctissima]

Mayhap the Palestinians should have undertaken a course of action that didn't involve literal ethnic cleansing.

"We're going to take your land and make it a Jewish state but it's not ethnic cleansing because we're the oppressed ones. =^^^)"

19th century Zionism was very inclusive. Post-WW1 Zionism, not so much.

Land they purchased from the legitimate landowners, or otherwise reclaimed from literal desert and established well-functioning, prosperous communities.

Meanwhile the Palestinians were pushing for a literal monocultural and ethnically homogeneous superstate in the Middle-East along with vast swathes of the Arabic demographic.

[Collatis]

I don't seem to recall the Jews planning on kicking the Palestinains out of their homes. In fact I seem to recall a great deal of Arabs pushing the Palestinians to leave so they could massacre the Jews. Until then, the land was not Palestinian...it was british.

Of course, I could be forgetting my admittedly very long ago learned history.

Both occurred.

[Infected Mushroom]

The state of Israel can be thought of as a successor state to the Biblical Israel, because Israel would not have won independence without in part, divine intervention from Yahweh. At least, I think that is how they defeated all of their Arab neighbors invading them with what was then superior weaponry.

It's more to do with the endemic problems arab culture has with organized warfare due to corruption and instability issues.

Superior weapons mean shit in that context. That the jews used basic guns and militias is in fact a massive advantage over a military where there's a dozen generals all picked specifically because they're too incompetent to coup the country all trying to lead the army to glory that they'll use to coup the country in a revolt, and all with a vested interest in disagreeing with the other generals and advancing their own "brilliant" plan of attack to hog that glory.

This is why arab nations have lost wars for a long, long time. It's something some of them are starting to recognize.

Incidentally, this kind of shit helped kill rome too.

When did the Arabs manage to "fight back" against the west in the modern era?
When arabs got sick of listening to their leaders deliberately picked to be morons and started attacking us independent of their military organizations.

This sounds so very sad...

[MERIZoC]

"We're going to take your land and make it a Jewish state but it's not ethnic cleansing because we're the oppressed ones. =^^^)"

19th century Zionism was very inclusive. Post-WW1 Zionism, not so much.

I don't seem to recall the Jews planning on kicking the Palestinains out of their homes. In fact I seem to recall a great deal of Arabs pushing the Palestinians to leave so they could massacre the Jews. Until then, the land was not Palestinian...it was british.

Of course, I could be forgetting my admittedly very long ago learned history.

Yup, good old BRITISH land, Palestine, the homeland of the BRITISH people, that they have peacefully owned for millennia.

[Neutraligon]

I don't seem to recall the Jews planning on kicking the Palestinains out of their homes. In fact I seem to recall a great deal of Arabs pushing the Palestinians to leave so they could massacre the Jews. Until then, the land was not Palestinian...it was british.

Of course, I could be forgetting my admittedly very long ago learned history.

Both occurred.

Then I am forgetting my history. I do recall the later, I am trying to recall the former and when precisely such plans where laid.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's more to do with the endemic problems arab culture has with organized warfare due to corruption and instability issues.

Superior weapons mean shit in that context. That the jews used basic guns and militias is in fact a massive advantage over a military where there's a dozen generals all picked specifically because they're too incompetent to coup the country all trying to lead the army to glory that they'll use to coup the country in a revolt, and all with a vested interest in disagreeing with the other generals and advancing their own "brilliant" plan of attack to hog that glory.

This is why arab nations have lost wars for a long, long time. It's something some of them are starting to recognize.

Incidentally, this kind of shit helped kill rome too.

When did the Arabs manage to "fight back" against the west in the modern era?
When arabs got sick of listening to their leaders deliberately picked to be morons and started attacking us independent of their military organizations.

This sounds so very sad...

I suspect basing a large part of a culture on military leaders being divine and asserting it's a legitimate means to be "Gods chosen" might, MIGHT, have consequences that aren't intended.

[Baltenstein]

Buying land is not illegal.

Never said it was. It was, however, a clear indication that international Zionist interests (wow, I can't believe I got to use that phrase unironically) had strong intentions of extending the land viable for reclamation by a proposed Jewish state as far as they could.

As to the rest, there was indeed a strong terrorist group that focused a great deal on the British.

A convenient way to ignore the fact that the Palestinians and Jews were at each others throats since the 20s.

A purely ethnically Jewish and a purely ethnically Palestinian state, founded simultaneously in 1947, with the international community making sure that both sides wouldn't try to REMOVEKEBAB each other would have prevented a lot of hate and suffering.
It sounds nasty to us now, but in several cases of the first half of the 20th Century, sending ethnic groups to different corners of the room, after they had just try to murder each other, really helped to permanently defuse tension between the two groups in the long run. Examples include Greeks/Turks post 1922, and the German minorities throughout Eastern Europe post-1945. It was a horrible tragedy for the individuals and families affected, but obviously preferable to the ethnic groups as a whole being locked in bloody conflict.

[Neutraligon]

I don't seem to recall the Jews planning on kicking the Palestinains out of their homes. In fact I seem to recall a great deal of Arabs pushing the Palestinians to leave so they could massacre the Jews. Until then, the land was not Palestinian...it was british.

Of course, I could be forgetting my admittedly very long ago learned history.

Yup, good old BRITISH land, Palestine, the homeland of the BRITISH people, that they have peacefully owned for millennia.

Whether or not they owned it for millennia is irrelevant, the fact was it was British land, the same way before the USA came into existence America was partially British land. Well, unless you want to consider prior claims, but then why stop at the Arab occupation of a once Jewish area?

[Trumptonium]

You know 1968 was mainly a product of the Eastern Bloc-wide campaign against Zionism (i.e. the creation of Israel)?

The 1968 state campaign against Zionism had absolutely fuck all with the wider Soviet policy (FYI USSR was in favour of, and the greatest ally of, Israel, from 1948 to 1967)

The anti-zionist campaign was a pet project of Moczar, a Partisan. AKA an ultranationlist communist. The enemies of the Partisans inside the communist politics were Muskowici, otherwise known as Polish Jews who escaped to the USSR during WW2 and were trained by Stalin before returning to Poland to take on secret police and general repression jobs inside the government once Poland was occupied, because Stalin distrusted ethnic Poles. Once the Khruschev era started, hell started raining down on them with a shitton of show trials, followed by a general, gradual, move towards anti-Jew policies as a whole. His new secret police unit began screening all Jews and people of Jewish origin for 'hidden zionist' agenda when it came to institutional jobs.

They were also a play to the general persistent antisemitic feeling among the Polish populace, as Moczar was trying to stand for the next First Secretary through deposing Gomulka whom he had fallen out with, and getting popular support was a good idea for the future.

In 1948, 40% of UB operatives (Polish secret police) were Jewish, all directly imported from the USSR, all Polish. [*]. This pretext allowed people like Moczar to get rid of Jews once Stalin fucked off where he belongs.

Most of the hate was directed towards Appendix A. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_Minc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakub_Berman

Let me just quote directly from Wiki as that's what you only do anyway

Jakub Berman was born into a middle-class Jewish family in Warsaw in on 26 December 1901. Between 1944 and 1953, he was considered Joseph Stalin's right hand in the People's Republic of Poland – in charge of the Ministry of Public Security – the largest secret police in Polish history and one of its most repressive institutions.[1][2]

Again, stop talking about Poland when clearly your entire knowledge of events in Polish history is skim reading the wiki pages.

This explains it better than I can
http://poland.museumoncommunism.org/poland/bios/moczar

Or this in particular

Moczar was a clever puppet master, pulling strings secretively behind the scenes and staging conditions that would eventually depose Party Secretary Gomułka. He nearly succeeded in becoming Communist Party Secretary in 1968 and only failed after the December 1970 revolt on the Baltic Coast because he was unacceptable to the Russians. In 1968, the security apparatus under Moczar used the student strikes to unleash the so-called “anti-Zionist” campaign as a smoke screen to cleanse the Party and the army of the Muscovites, Polish communists, including a contingent of Jews that survived WWII and the Stalinist purges in the Soviet Union, forcing hundreds top officials to resign or be replaced.

Seen by some as an internal Party squabble, the campaign cast a wide net, forcing expulsions from cultural organizations, film and entertainment industry and academia, but most crudely touching the lives of ordinary citizens. Nearly 20,000 [13,300 according to Institute of National Remembrance] Poles of Jewish descent had to relinquish their Polish citizenship and leave their homeland on one-way exit documents, mostly to United States, France and Scandinavia.

The Moczar faction of hard-liners from the ranks of SB and Union of Combatants for Freedom and Democracy backed the military solution in Czechoslovakia to eradicate revisionism in 1968 and martial law in Poland in 1981. In 1970, Moczar’s “partisans” forced Gomułka’s downfall while the instability and chaos they helped create on the Baltic Coast were calculated to prevent the Soviets from intervening in Poland’s “internal affairs.” In A History of Poland Oscar Halecki observed: “At least 500 people lost their lives and civil war seemed near.” The staging of events by the secret police to secure political power was characteristic of communist societies.

[Principality of the Raix]

I can only agree, as this is true as it occurred within the Soviet Union. If you look at the U.S.S.R leadership there is no "pure" russians, only jews and jewish russians running the country.

I'm sure Conserative Morality will be overjoyed to have your support.

I am a conservative, but look up Stalin as a Jew and the only thing that is attempting to debunk it Is someone who states not being an expert at Georgian or Russia in general. In the end, it is your own opinion, like mine goes with what is given; Stalin was half jewish.

[Conserative Morality]

I don't seem to recall the Jews planning on kicking the Palestinains out of their homes. In fact I seem to recall a great deal of Arabs pushing the Palestinians to leave so they could massacre the Jews. Until then, the land was not Palestinian...it was british.

Of course, I could be forgetting my admittedly very long ago learned history.

As has been said, both occurred.

Please, don't mistake me. Neither side was particularly good in goals or methods. I just find the hagiography of Israel's history to be disturbing and dangerous.

Land they purchased from the legitimate landowners, or otherwise reclaimed from literal desert and established well-functioning, prosperous communities.

Meanwhile the Palestinians were pushing for a literal monocultural and ethnically homogeneous superstate in the Middle-East along with vast swathes of the Arabic demographic.

>> ignoring the fact that Pan-Arab types were hated by the large amount of Palestinian nationalists

Yep, all them A-rabs is just the same. Fucking hivemind.

[Collatis]

Both occurred.

Then I am forgetting my history. I do recall the later, I am trying to recall the former and when precisely such plans where laid.

Factors involved in the exodus include Jewish military advances, destruction of Arab villages, psychological warfare, and fears of another massacre by Zionist militias after the Deir Yassin massacre, which caused many to leave out of panic; direct expulsion orders by Israeli authorities; the voluntary self-removal of the wealthier classes; collapse in Palestinian leadership and Arab evacuation orders, and an unwillingness to live under Jewish control.

[La Vendee]

Good for Trump...

"Don't say this thing because it will anger Muslims and incite violence" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's literally obeying the demands of terrorists - proving they've achieved their goal!

[Sanctissima]

Land they purchased from the legitimate landowners, or otherwise reclaimed from literal desert and established well-functioning, prosperous communities.

Meanwhile the Palestinians were pushing for a literal monocultural and ethnically homogeneous superstate in the Middle-East along with vast swathes of the Arabic demographic.

>> ignoring the fact that Pan-Arab types were hated by the large amount of Palestinian nationalists

Yep, all them A-rabs is just the same. Fucking hivemind.

Didn't stop them from allying with them THREE TIMES to exterminate the Jews. :^)