Trump just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's Capital

[Liriena]

Imagine basing your politics on spite and being this smug about it.

Isn't that what politics pretty much is? Doing things to spite the other side?

...what's wrong with you Americans? Who hurt you?

[The of Japan]

Yes, "genocidal".

The same nation that has made great strives to accommodate its Arabic and Muslim citizens, that has repeatedly tried to come to some sort of arrangement with Palestine and that literally allows anti-Zionist Islamic parties to participate in the Israeli Knesset despite many of them being opposed to the very existence of Israel as a nation.

Wow, what a bunch of evil genocidal mass-murderers.

The only acceptable "arrangement" is for the Jews to hand over all land they stole from the Palestinians in 1947.

The past has happened and so be it. Why remove people from their homes who did nothing wrong?

[Volkmacht]

This was beyond stupid. East Jerusalem is occupied territory and should not be recognized as part of Israel-controlled Jerusalem.

[Free Tristania]

Yes, "genocidal".

The same nation that has made great strives to accommodate its Arabic and Muslim citizens, that has repeatedly tried to come to some sort of arrangement with Palestine and that literally allows anti-Zionist Islamic parties to participate in the Israeli Knesset despite many of them being opposed to the very existence of Israel as a nation.

Wow, what a bunch of evil genocidal mass-murderers.

The only acceptable "arrangement" is for the Jews to hand over all land they stole from the Palestinians in 1947.

And the only acceptable arrangement is for Muslims to withdraw to the Arabic Peninsula.

[Thermodolia]

I’m not a Christian so it wouldn’t be good for those us who aren’t in the Christian Faith if banking on the end of the world to bring Jesus back is successful (in ending the world that is, not bringing Jesus back) and we all die for nothing. But I don’t want to get into a religious debate so I’ll just leave it at that. You do you.

I agree, I'm not saying I am basing my politics on it either. Just saying that either Trump f*cked up and caused a crisis, or he just brought the apocalypse that will save the Christians apparently.
Either way, I facepalm if it had to end like this. I disapprove of this politically either way, regardless of my religious stance on the matter.

I don't think he caused anything. Nothing is going to happen over this. We aren't going to go to war and the people in those countries already hate US and Israel. What are they going to do hate us some more?

[Liriena]

No offense, but booooooo.

I don't care. I like his foreign policy, other while I'm leaning towards voting for him he'll probably do something stupid to make me reconsider

What foreign policy?

"Hey, son-in-law with no foreign policy experience, go solve the Middle East! And let's cause more civilian casualties in the Middle East! Also, maybe cause a nuclear war, and see if we can alienate even the Tories by retweeting British nazis!"

That foreign policy?

[Trumptonium]

Good.

Though the 3 sites (Holy Sepulchre, Dome and Wailing Wall) should become governed by the UN with free access to everybody.

But Jerusalem is and should remain Israel's capital, recognised by all.

Anything that pisses off the Islamic world is just a bonus, and anything that enrages European & American Muslims to rage and riot is politically beneficial.

...Do you know anything about geopolitics? Not meant as an insult, just asking.

No, please teach me, my master.

This could be used by Russia and China to curry Muslim favor by opposing the action.

Russia and China hate Muslims. They do everything they can to make their lives a living hell domestically. Abroad, neither of them have good ties with Muslim nations. Except for Russia who likes to fund Sudan's dictator life in exchange for a few necessary resources and general fuckuppery in Africa if needed, along with their relationship with nominally Muslim countries of Azerbaijan and the Stans. Russia's relationship with Iran is overrated in the media.

China hates them all.

The Americans are the most Muslim-friendly major nation on the planet. Apart from Germany.

This could(But likely won't) cause WW3, but it's the most likely of any immediate crisis to do so.

So wait.

World vs. Islam?

I have a good guess as to who would win?

And this is a world war we [i]cannot win due to all the oil being on the opposing side.

???

Canada has the world's third largest oil reserves and the lowest rate of extraction. They alone can fund a war.

Besides, Russia would be on 'our' side, so there's them, and Venezuela.

deal us a humiliating defeat

did you really just say Islam will deal the West a humiliating defeat?

I mean I am struggling to imagine a different scenario than the West steamrolling the entire Arab world and confiscating the oil, mostly because Arabs can't fight (as evidenced by 600 million of them losing against 2 million Jews) and because most Arabs are under dictatorial regimes that they would lose their limbs or their dick for escaping

[The Misconception]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/trump-jerusalem-israel-capital.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-jerusalem-israel-capital-turkey-organization-islamic-cooperation/

Yup. Trump did it. The madman did it. He's caused another unnecessary crisis, just like Yemen and Qatar.
Yes I am aware of the argument for doing it, but this will cause another diplomatic crisis even if they stay our allies, it will strain ties further.
I personally think one of 4 things will happen:

1: Diplomatic crisis that makes USA be seen as enemy of Islam by many people but still an ally of many Muslim governments.(Most likely)
2: Cause a holy war(Extremely unlikely but possible if things get bad enough. Not impossible, but quite implausible.).
3: Many Muslim states cut off all ties with USA(Still pretty unlikely but more likely than the Holy War.)
4: Some Muslim states limit access to oil and use that as leverage(Unsure of this, it is a major Saud money-maker and they may be quite hesitant to do it, but it's not impossible realistically. Could still happen. Slightly but not much more likely than the Holy War.)
Either way, this is going to cause issue with the Israel-Palestinian peace process, in my personal opinion and result in another unneeded crisis, even if you support Israel strongly, you gotta agree this is another headache not worth creating.
To me he f*cked up, I'd have said this of any President, whether I liked Muslims or not this is strategically a poor move.

i agree

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then why give it to the Jews when it was vastly majority Arab?

It wasn't just given to the Jews. It was given back to the Jews.

The Jews hadn't had it for thousands of years. Let me guess, you want your country to be given back to the Italians?

[Ors Might]

Isn't that what politics pretty much is? Doing things to spite the other side?

...what's wrong with you Americans? Who hurt you?

Mostly ourselves and the British..

[Thermodolia]

Isn't that what politics pretty much is? Doing things to spite the other side?

...what's wrong with you Americans? Who hurt you?

Nobody. We just see the world for what it is, a shithole

[Holy Tedalonia]

This was beyond stupid. East Jerusalem is occupied territory and should not be recognized as part of Israel-controlled Jerusalem.

ppfftt, it's not...

[The Conez Imperium]

Good.

Though the 3 sites (Holy Sepulchre, Dome and Wailing Wall) should become governed by the UN with free access to everybody.

But Jerusalem is and should remain Israel's capital, recognised by all.

Anything that pisses off the Islamic world is just a bonus, and anything that enrages European & American Muslims to rage and riot is politically beneficial.

I disagree on only one item there: The 3 Holy Sites should be administered by the State of Israel which should enshrine free access in its constitution. The U.N is a worthless body, paper pushers and as corrupt as can be and the less of a role they are given, the better it is for all of us.

The primary goal of the UN is to facilitate peace through dialogue and bring all countries of the world together. Through the world assembly and the security council, they've been doing just that.

[Ostroeuropa]

Good.

Though the 3 sites (Holy Sepulchre, Dome and Wailing Wall) should become governed by the UN with free access to everybody.

But Jerusalem is and should remain Israel's capital, recognised by all.

Anything that pisses off the Islamic world is just a bonus, and anything that enrages European & American Muslims to rage and riot is politically beneficial.

Imagine basing your politics on spite and being this smug about it.

He might be basing it on realpolitik.
Anger makes you stupider, and can also causes exhaustion.
Outraging the Islamic world for a prolonged period of time in an escalating will damage their economy and resolve, as well as normalize things that outrage them.

I bet you the wider islamic world shrugs about another american bomb being dropped. Compare to if the Sauds bombed london.

If Trump follows this up with a gay pride parade straight into the Islamic section of Jerusalem and marches through, then burns a quran while calling it "Just a book, nerds" and spraypaints a picture of mohammed onto the wailing wall just to wind up the Jews a bit too, (But do it in one of those writing-pictures, and make the writing a copy of the quran just to make it an utter and complete fucking clusterfuck) we'll know he's a true hero.

Winding up muslims over islamic nonsense is a service to humanity, same as it is for any religion.
Jerusalem IS the capital of Israel, they argue otherwise because of some bollocks a hallucinating man told them.

The violent reactions of religious fee fees being hurt should not keep us from acknowledging facts. That way lies burning scientists.

[Liriena]

...what's wrong with you Americans? Who hurt you?

Trump and Obama most likely.
I like Obama but disapprove of his foreign policy, too...well passive. But Trump's bombastic policy is too arrogant and aggressive for me.

Honestly, Obama's foreign policy only looked passive, but in practical terms it wasn't too different from the Bush foreign policy. In hindsight, I gave him too much of a free pass.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

We already recognized their right to exist.

No, you compromised with terrorist Islamists because you didn't want to hurt their feelings and until now refused to recognize their capital city (Yerushalayim).

More like we don’t want to end up causing another crisis in an already unstable region marked by previous crisis.

[Free Tristania]

I disagree on only one item there: The 3 Holy Sites should be administered by the State of Israel which should enshrine free access in its constitution. The U.N is a worthless body, paper pushers and as corrupt as can be and the less of a role they are given, the better it is for all of us.

The primary goal of the UN is to facilitate peace through dialogue and bring all countries of the world together. Through the world assembly and the security council, they've been doing just that.

Where ?

[Volkmacht]

This was beyond stupid. East Jerusalem is occupied territory and should not be recognized as part of Israel-controlled Jerusalem.

ppfftt, it's not...

East Jerusalem IS occupied territory. Israel didn't rule it until the Six Day War.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Trump and Obama most likely.
I like Obama but disapprove of his foreign policy, too...well passive. But Trump's bombastic policy is too arrogant and aggressive for me.

Honestly, Obama's foreign policy only looked passive, but in practical terms it wasn't too different from the Bush foreign policy. In hindsight, I gave him too much of a free pass.

*pamphlet bombing run on arabs* - Obamas foreign policy

[Liriena]

The only acceptable "arrangement" is for the Jews to hand over all land they stole from the Palestinians in 1947.

And the only acceptable arrangement is for Muslims to withdraw to the Arabic Peninsula.

Clearly, we must all return to Africa. That's the only way to permanently solve this problem.

Seriously, though, I'm more on Aillyria's side here. Israel has a right to exist, but not at the expense of another nation, and not as an aggressive religious ethno-state.

[The Conez Imperium]

Trump and Obama most likely.
I like Obama but disapprove of his foreign policy, too...well passive. But Trump's bombastic policy is too arrogant and aggressive for me.

Honestly, Obama's foreign policy only looked passive, but in practical terms it wasn't too different from the Bush foreign policy.

Saying too passive feels like a gut reaction rather than a well reasoned argument. What exactly was passive and why do these passive parts make you dislike Obama's foreign policy?

[Thermodolia]

I don't care. I like his foreign policy, other while I'm leaning towards voting for him he'll probably do something stupid to make me reconsider

What foreign policy?

"Hey, son-in-law with no foreign policy experience, go solve the Middle East! And let's cause more civilian casualties in the Middle East! Also, maybe cause a nuclear war, and see if we can alienate even the Tories by retweeting British nazis!"

That foreign policy?

Nice strawman.

More like standing up to North Korean agression, and supporting our allies and recognizing their legal capitals.

[Trumptonium]

These countries have embassies in Jerusalem.

However none recognize it as the Jewish Capital. There's a difference, it's in their eyes having an embassy in New York.

Nominally.

[Holy Tedalonia]

ppfftt, it's not...

East Jerusalem IS occupied territory. Israel didn't rule it until the Six Day War.

Fair point, but in the end just wishful thinking. It is where a lot of Isreal gov buildings are, and plenty of civilians it's more city than occupied territory. To put it into words, "colonized territory"

[Trumptonium]

You don't understand Realpolitik do you?
Realpolitik means Russia would love to take advantage of this.
As would China. Whether they like the Muslims or not is irrelevant, this is a golden opportunity for them.

you sound like a guy on the first semester on an international relations course