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Gun Control: Shiny Toy Guns

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Am I Right?

Yeah, mostly, seems agreeable.
156
22%
Dunno/Not sure/Not American and I think that matters
40
6%
Nah, you're crazy. Guns should be more restricted.
187
26%
Nah, you're crazy. Guns should be less restricted.
287
40%
JC Christ CM come back when the meds wear off
54
7%
 
Total votes : 724

User avatar
Tobleste
Minister
 
Posts: 2668
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Tobleste » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:03 pm

New Emeline wrote:
Tobleste wrote:
Well in case you're wondering, this is why millions of Americans think you and people with similar opinions to you are effectively heartless monsters. And no. It's not just because they disagree with you.

I don't know if I would go as far as that. Most gun control supporters don't think pro gun people are monsters, but that's just my experience.


Apparently their opponents think differently. Hopefully gun control supporters will realise they're not dealing with people who can be reasoned with. Cultural and financial pressure on politicians and companies is the only thing that's going to work.
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Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: -4.63
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User avatar
New Emeline
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6280
Founded: Jan 16, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Emeline » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Tobleste wrote:
New Emeline wrote:I don't know if I would go as far as that. Most gun control supporters don't think pro gun people are monsters, but that's just my experience.


Apparently their opponents think differently. Hopefully gun control supporters will realise they're not dealing with people who can be reasoned with. Cultural and financial pressure on politicians and companies is the only thing that's going to work.

If that's the way you look at it, you aren't going to get anywhere. Saying your opponents aren't people that can be reasoned with only pushes them farther away.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:06 pm

Tobleste wrote:
New Emeline wrote:I don't know if I would go as far as that. Most gun control supporters don't think pro gun people are monsters, but that's just my experience.


Apparently their opponents think differently. Hopefully gun control supporters will realise they're not dealing with people who can be reasoned with. Cultural and financial pressure on politicians and companies is the only thing that's going to work.


You need reason to reason...

But whatever, try to force your terrible belief, perhaps you end up like Hitler's buddies before you.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
New Emeline
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6280
Founded: Jan 16, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Emeline » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:07 pm

Telconi wrote:
Tobleste wrote:
Apparently their opponents think differently. Hopefully gun control supporters will realise they're not dealing with people who can be reasoned with. Cultural and financial pressure on politicians and companies is the only thing that's going to work.


You need reason to reason...

But whatever, try to force your terrible belief, perhaps you end up like Hitler's buddies before you.

Can we maybe steer away from using the Hitler card?

User avatar
Tobleste
Minister
 
Posts: 2668
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Tobleste » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:07 pm

New Emeline wrote:
Tobleste wrote:
Apparently their opponents think differently. Hopefully gun control supporters will realise they're not dealing with people who can be reasoned with. Cultural and financial pressure on politicians and companies is the only thing that's going to work.

If that's the way you look at it, you aren't going to get anywhere. Saying your opponents aren't people that can be reasoned with only pushes them farther away.


So what's the alternatives? Looking at this thread and the NRAs actions, I'm not sure there is one.
Social Democrat
Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.26

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:07 pm

New Emeline wrote:
Telconi wrote:
You need reason to reason...

But whatever, try to force your terrible belief, perhaps you end up like Hitler's buddies before you.

Can we maybe steer away from using the Hitler card?


Why? Accurate comparisons are a useful tool.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
New Emeline
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6280
Founded: Jan 16, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Emeline » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:07 pm

Telconi wrote:
New Emeline wrote:Can we maybe steer away from using the Hitler card?


Why? Accurate comparisons are a useful tool.

I wouldn't say it is an accurate comparison.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:08 pm

New Emeline wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Why? Accurate comparisons are a useful tool.

I wouldn't say it is an accurate comparison.


Okay, it is to me.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:09 pm

Telconi wrote:
New Emeline wrote:Can we maybe steer away from using the Hitler card?


Why? Accurate comparisons are a useful tool.

Hitler and fascist gets thrown around so much that it doesn’t really quantify anything anymore.
Last edited by Sovaal on Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40300
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:09 pm

Telconi wrote:
New Emeline wrote:I wouldn't say it is an accurate comparison.


Okay, it is to me.


Ok. Explain.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40300
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:10 pm

Sovaal wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Why? Accurate comparisons are a useful tool.

Hitler and fascist gets thrown around so much that it doesn’t really quantify anything anymore.


Youuu Nazi!
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Gig em Aggies
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7330
Founded: Aug 15, 2009
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Gig em Aggies » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:10 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... otest.html

Thank goodness good guys with guns stopped another potential massacre/terror attack. Those people are not true texans and they make real texans look bad
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“The reason that the Aggies does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the Aggies practices chaos on a daily basis.”
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User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:10 pm

New Emeline wrote:
Tobleste wrote:
Apparently their opponents think differently. Hopefully gun control supporters will realise they're not dealing with people who can be reasoned with. Cultural and financial pressure on politicians and companies is the only thing that's going to work.

If that's the way you look at it, you aren't going to get anywhere. Saying your opponents aren't people that can be reasoned with only pushes them farther away.

Nah man, I just want kids to die. Why? Because he told me that’s what I wanted, and he must be smarter then me because he’s an anti./s
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:11 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Okay, it is to me.


Ok. Explain.


Gun control advocates are equally repulsive as Nazis.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6635
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:11 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Okay, it is to me.


Ok. Explain.


I can see why he thinks it is an accurate comparison: both wanting to take away rights.
However, I agree with Sovaal that Hitler and Fascist and Nazi are thrown around too much.
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User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59411
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:13 pm

New Emeline wrote:
Telconi wrote:
You need reason to reason...

But whatever, try to force your terrible belief, perhaps you end up like Hitler's buddies before you.

Can we maybe steer away from using the Hitler card?

Nein!!
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The Empire of Pretantia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39274
Founded: Oct 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:13 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Ok. Explain.


Gun control advocates are equally repulsive as Nazis.

I dunno, Nazis want genocide and a war of conquest. I'd say that's more repulsive
ywn be as good as this video
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Spirit of Hope
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Posts: 9704
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:13 pm

Tobleste wrote:
New Emeline wrote:If that's the way you look at it, you aren't going to get anywhere. Saying your opponents aren't people that can be reasoned with only pushes them farther away.


So what's the alternatives? Looking at this thread and the NRAs actions, I'm not sure there is one.

The NRA opposes stupid legislation. Look at the newest laws enacted in Florida. The NRA didn't challenge the gun restraining order, or the improvements to how mental evaluations are handled. They only brought the law suit against the raising of the age for long guns to 21 instead of 18. They have stated they wouldn't be apposed to a well crafted law aimed at banning bump stocks, but they have pulled out all the stops to appose an assault weapons ban. Most of the people you have been debating with here are quite willing to discuss solutions to the problem, they are just unwilling to submit to stupid or pointless legislation, which is the majority of what is proposed. Those that are hardliners are hardliners because they have been burned in the past. Saying you aren't going to reason with them only increases the number of hardliners and makes the hardliners look correct in their dealings with you.
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User avatar
The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40300
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:13 pm

Telconi wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Ok. Explain.


Gun control advocates are equally repulsive as Nazis.


Hmmm. Yoga or meditation might help with the anger.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:14 pm

Gig em Aggies wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5550063/Couple-arrested-huge-stash-weapons-Boston-March-Lives-protest.html

Thank goodness good guys with guns stopped another potential massacre/terror attack. Those people are not true texans and they make real texans look bad

Was that’s a Webley?

Anyway, good thing, shooting the antis isn’t going to convince them of anything.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:14 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Sovaal wrote:Hitler and fascist gets thrown around so much that it doesn’t really quantify anything anymore.


Youuu Nazi!

That too.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44421
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:15 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Gun control advocates are equally repulsive as Nazis.


Hmmm. Yoga or meditation might help with the anger.


Blasting away with a machine gun out away from anything is a better way to deal with that, imo.
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User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:15 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
New Emeline wrote:Can we maybe steer away from using the Hitler card?

Nein!!

Stahp
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:16 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmm. Yoga or meditation might help with the anger.


Blasting away with a machine gun out away from anything is a better way to deal with that, imo.

I’ve always wanted to chop down a tree with a mini gun...
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40300
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:17 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmm. Yoga or meditation might help with the anger.


Blasting away with a machine gun out away from anything is a better way to deal with that, imo.


That's just and adrenaline high and then you go back to being angry.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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