Gun Control: Shiny Toy Guns

[Big Jim P]

Not all DGUs result in shots fired let alone deaths.

Engages in DGU on more than one occasion. Never fired a shit. Can confirm.

Technically, every time a criminal passes up on a potential target because the might be armed counts as a DGU.

[Telconi]

Often no shots are fired and no reports are made. Plus, if there are no charges against the defender, why would it be counted?

You asked for stats on gun deaths due to DGU. That means that shots were fired and someone died. I'm not sure what part of this you're finding difficult to get?

I think he's looking to compare based on total DGUs. If X people die from guns, but 5X crime are prevented by DGUs. Then there you have it.

[Fartsniffage]

You asked for stats on gun deaths due to DGU. That means that shots were fired and someone died. I'm not sure what part of this you're finding difficult to get?

I think he's looking to compare based on total DGUs. If X people die from guns, but 5X crime are prevented by DGUs. Then there you have it.

viewtopic.php?p=33057684#p33057684

[Big Jim P]

Often no shots are fired and no reports are made. Plus, if there are no charges against the defender, why would it be counted?

You asked for stats on gun deaths due to DGU. That means that shots were fired and someone died. I'm not sure what part of this you're finding difficult to get?

I get it. I was asking Kesh what part of the stats he posted include those. Including legitimate shoots (among other irelevant occurences) in gun-death stats is a common gun-grabber tactic.

[Thermodolia]

Right... So I guess Chicago is its own state now?

Again.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/nationa ... 8e.html#30

Yes that's the murder rate not the total amount. Chicago has the highest level of murders per year than any other city with 478 as of 2015.

The Chicago murder rate is lower than Atlanta due to the fact that Chicago has more people than Atlanta even though 5x times more people are killed in Chicago than Atlanta.

TL;DR: my point still stands

[Telconi]

I think he's looking to compare based on total DGUs. If X people die from guns, but 5X crime are prevented by DGUs. Then there you have it.

viewtopic.php?p=33057684#p33057684

Fair enough....

[Thermodolia]

No Link handy, but estimates run 80K to 2.5 million. I tend to believe it i somewhere in the middle. I was wondering if Kesh realizes they happen.

No that many DGUs don't happen. If they did then we would have a declining population. Nice try though.

The link you provided literally has a disclaimer stating: These numbers include among others death as a result of suicide, self-defense and accidents. A list regarding only murders is provided below.

[Big Jim P]

I think he's looking to compare based on total DGUs. If X people die from guns, but 5X crime are prevented by DGUs. Then there you have it.

viewtopic.php?p=33057684#p33057684

Farts right. I am asking how many of the cited deaths were DGUs

[Fartsniffage]

Again.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/nationa ... 8e.html#30

Yes that's the murder rate not the total amount. Chicago has the highest level of murders per year than any other city with 478 as of 2015.

The Chicago murder rate is lower than Atlanta due to the fact that Chicago has more people than Atlanta even though 5x times more people are killed in Chicago than Atlanta.

TL;DR: my point still stands

Yes, that's why we use rates per 100,000 instead of absolute numbers. Comparing apples to apples is good when using statistics. Comparing apples to oranges is bad.

[Tule]

Effective gun control efforts in the US are practically impossible because of the second amendment and lack of public support for gun control.

If America was hypothetically free of both guns and gun laws and it would be up to me to regulate future sales I would regulate guns to differing degrees depending on their abuse potential and civilian utility.

For starters, I would establish a registry of people ineligible to own a firearm. People would be added to it by court order and they would stay on the registry for various lengths of time depending on how serious their crimes or mental illnesses are. Some briefly, others permanently. The registry would be electronic and referenced every time a gun is transferred. So a similar system to the NICS.

I would then categorize firearms based on their potential for abuse and civilian utility.

A handgun would be defined as any weapon with an OAL of less than 60 cm and a barrel length of less than 30 cm.

Shotgun would be any smoothbore cartridge firearm that is not a handgun.

A rifle would be any rifled firearm that is not a handgun.

Unrestricted firearms:

Unrestricted firearms would be transferable to anyone that passes a background check. They include every firearm that is not restricted or prohibited.

Restricted firearms:

Semi-automatic or pump-action rifles that are chambered in a centrefire cartridge. Repeating handguns that have a barrel length greater than 10 cm.

Not only do you need to pass a background check to possess these firearms, you also need proof of necessity. To obtain proof of necessity you need to show the police that you intend to engage in a lawful activity where a restricted firearm is necessary and an unrestricted firearm is inadequate. Lawful activities include shooting sports, pest control and collecting.

Prohibited firearms:

All automatic firearms, all firearms disguised as other objects. All firearms equipped with a slide-fire stock or trigger cranks. All firearms that can be fired with the stock folded. All handguns with a barrel shorter than 10 cm. All projectiles containing explosives or poisons.
All rifled firearms with a bore diameter greater than 37 mm.

These weapons are prohibited from civilian individual ownership. Only museums, security companies, shooting ranges and government agencies may possess prohibited firearms.

[Big Jim P]

Effective gun control efforts in the US are practically impossible because of the second amendment and lack of public support for gun control.

If America was hypothetically free of both guns and gun laws and it would be up to me to regulate future sales I would regulate guns to differing degrees depending on their abuse potential and civilian utility.

For starters, I would establish a registry of people ineligible to own a firearm. People would be added to it by court order and they would stay on the registry for various lengths of time depending on how serious their crimes or mental illnesses are. Some briefly, others permanently. The registry would be electronic and referenced every time a gun is transferred. So a similar system to the NICS.

I would then categorize firearms based on their potential for abuse and civilian utility.

A handgun would be defined as any weapon with an OAL of less than 60 cm and a barrel length of less than 30 cm.

Shotgun would be any smoothbore cartridge firearm that is not a handgun.

A rifle would be any rifled firearm that is not a handgun.

Unrestricted firearms:

Unrestricted firearms would be transferable to anyone that passes a background check. They include every firearm that is not restricted or prohibited.

Restricted firearms:

Semi-automatic or pump-action rifles that are chambered in a centrefire cartridge. Repeating handguns that have a barrel length greater than 10 cm.

Not only do you need to pass a background check to possess these firearms, you also need proof of necessity. To obtain proof of necessity you need to show the police that you intend to engage in a lawful activity where a restricted firearm is necessary and an unrestricted firearm is inadequate. Lawful activities include shooting sports, pest control and collecting.

Prohibited firearms:

All automatic firearms, all firearms disguised as other objects. All firearms equipped with a slide-fire stock or trigger cranks. All firearms that can be fired with the stock folded. All handguns with a barrel shorter than 10 cm. All projectiles containing explosives or poisons.
All rifled firearms with a bore diameter greater than 37 mm.

These weapons are prohibited from civilian individual ownership. Only museums, security companies, shooting ranges and government agencies may possess prohibited firearms.

The bolded is actually reasonable and would make marking the IDs of prohibited persons easy, thus eliminating the need for POS background checks altogether.

[Telconi]

Effective gun control efforts in the US are practically impossible because of the second amendment and lack of public support for gun control.

If America was hypothetically free of both guns and gun laws and it would be up to me to regulate future sales I would regulate guns to differing degrees depending on their abuse potential and civilian utility.

For starters, I would establish a registry of people ineligible to own a firearm. People would be added to it by court order and they would stay on the registry for various lengths of time depending on how serious their crimes or mental illnesses are. Some briefly, others permanently. The registry would be electronic and referenced every time a gun is transferred. So a similar system to the NICS.

I would then categorize firearms based on their potential for abuse and civilian utility.

A handgun would be defined as any weapon with an OAL of less than 60 cm and a barrel length of less than 30 cm.

Shotgun would be any smoothbore cartridge firearm that is not a handgun.

A rifle would be any rifled firearm that is not a handgun.

Unrestricted firearms:

Unrestricted firearms would be transferable to anyone that passes a background check. They include every firearm that is not restricted or prohibited.

Restricted firearms:

Semi-automatic or pump-action rifles that are chambered in a centrefire cartridge. Repeating handguns that have a barrel length greater than 10 cm.

Not only do you need to pass a background check to possess these firearms, you also need proof of necessity. To obtain proof of necessity you need to show the police that you intend to engage in a lawful activity where a restricted firearm is necessary and an unrestricted firearm is inadequate. Lawful activities include shooting sports, pest control and collecting.

Prohibited firearms:

All automatic firearms, all firearms disguised as other objects. All firearms equipped with a slide-fire stock or trigger cranks. All firearms that can be fired with the stock folded. All handguns with a barrel shorter than 10 cm. All projectiles containing explosives or poisons.
All rifled firearms with a bore diameter greater than 37 mm.

These weapons are prohibited from civilian individual ownership. Only museums, security companies, shooting ranges and government agencies may possess prohibited firearms.

I can not adequately express how glad I am the you don't get to make any of those decisions.

[The Two Jerseys]

No that many DGUs don't happen. If they did then we would have a declining population. Nice try though.

The link you provided literally has a disclaimer stating: These numbers include among others death as a result of suicide, self-defense and accidents. A list regarding only murders is provided below.

Do you really want to know what Keshi said when I pointed out that his precious Maryland had the 4th highest gun murder rate on the second list?

[Holy Tedalonia]

I don't hate anyone. It my be my passive personality or my autism that could be the result of that. Even my brother who annoys me all the time I don't hate.

Autistic brofist!

Aw thx

[Fartsniffage]

viewtopic.php?p=33057684#p33057684

Farts right. I am asking how many of the cited deaths were DGUs

If those numbers existed then I assumed you would be the one who has them?

[Arengin Union]

"Assault Weapons" is a made up political term.

[Ashlak]

While I do recognize that having absolutely zero restrictions on firearms is not possible, I would like for there to be as few as humanely possible, same as with other civil liberties.

Honestly, I think that "gun crime" can be reduced by going after the root causes of crime in general, things like poverty, the drug war, a corrupt criminal justice system, etc.

[Tule]

I think it's funny that so many people consider my suggestions draconian. By international standards my suggestions are very permissive. Most European lawmakers would freak out if I suggested that anyone that is not a criminal or seriously mentally ill could buy a Saiga-12, or that there are types of firearms that you can get without a license or registration.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I think it's funny that so many people consider my suggestions draconian. By international standards my suggestions are very permissive. Most European lawmakers would freak out if I suggested that anyone that is not a criminal or seriously mentally ill could buy a Saiga-12, or that there are types of firearms that you can get without a license or registration.

To us they are draconian. Just goes to show how different we are I guess.

[Fartsniffage]

I think it's funny that so many people consider my suggestions draconian. By international standards my suggestions are very permissive. Most European lawmakers would freak out if I suggested that anyone that is not a criminal or seriously mentally ill could buy a Saiga-12, or that there are types of firearms that you can get without a license or registration.

Americans are a strange and dangerous breed. It's why sensible countries keep them an ocean away. *nods*

[Big Jim P]

Farts right. I am asking how many of the cited deaths were DGUs

If those numbers existed then I assumed you would be the one who has them?

Unfortunately no, I don't.

[Kernen]

Keshi has advocated for the indefinite internment and deportation of gun owners in internment camps...

Alaska? Also I changed my mind on that. You guys can have the lower 48 and I will start anti-gun colonies in Alaska. 500-1000 mini-states that have no guns under the Keshiland flag. Too far away from the US to enforce its laws and use of terraforming technology and greenhouses to make sure we don't starve.

Oh my god, please do. The wildlife will eat your colonists.

[Big Jim P]

I think it's funny that so many people consider my suggestions draconian. By international standards my suggestions are very permissive. Most European lawmakers would freak out if I suggested that anyone that is not a criminal or seriously mentally ill could buy a Saiga-12, or that there are types of firearms that you can get without a license or registration.

Compared to America they are unacceptably draconian, and mot Americans don't care what the Europeans think.

[Fartsniffage]

If those numbers existed then I assumed you would be the one who has them?

Unfortunately no, I don't.

You get why though? *looks at your sig*

[Telconi]

I think it's funny that so many people consider my suggestions draconian. By international standards my suggestions are very permissive. Most European lawmakers would freak out if I suggested that anyone that is not a criminal or seriously mentally ill could buy a Saiga-12, or that there are types of firearms that you can get without a license or registration.

So? "International standards" are entirely non existant. Thee is no value or weight to appealing to the authority of "international standards"