Gun Control: Shiny Toy Guns

[The Two Jerseys]

This is also not such hot politics:



It's great preaching to the choir, but they've just written political ad copy for every gun-rights organization in the country.

I suspect the Democrats will take the House this year, and have a fair shot at the Senate, but even if they do, not by enough to overcome a veto.

(For the record, while an assault™-style weapons® ban is worthless, I might be in favor of the other three, depending on the details. For example, a 24-hour waiting period on gun purchases will probably prevent some crimes, but much longer than that seems an undue burden on legitimate gun buyers.)

Magazine restrictions would do absolutely shit-all.

Phuc Long shall demonstrate.

[Albrenia]

I don't think that the opinions of children/teenagers should be held above all others but resorting to insulting and ridiculing them isn't exactly a good look.

That's the only way you can defeat people who are run by feels, you hurt their self esteem to the point that they run into a corner crying about their feels. Nothing they suggest is run by reason or logic, they just want to "Feel" safe.

That seems rather harsh. Instead of arguing against them like adults just go down to kid-level and bully them until they submit.

[New Emeline]

I don't think that the opinions of children/teenagers should be held above all others but resorting to insulting and ridiculing them isn't exactly a good look.

That's the only way you can defeat people who are run by feels, you hurt their self esteem to the point that they run into a corner crying about their feels. Nothing they suggest is run by reason or logic, they just want to "Feel" safe.

Well that sounds like a mature and reasonable debate strategy.
And of course they want to "feel" safe, they're children who went through an objectively horrifying experience. It doesn't make them right, but it doesn't mean they're crybabies.

[The Lone Alliance]

That's the only way you can defeat people who are run by feels, you hurt their self esteem to the point that they run into a corner crying about their feels. Nothing they suggest is run by reason or logic, they just want to "Feel" safe.

That seems rather harsh. Instead of arguing against them like adults just go down to kid-level and bully them until they submit.

Because like they said they "Don't want a conversation", they outright want to no platform everyone who disagrees with them anyway cause they don't want a debate or argument.

Shut up and obey your betters is their view and they think they're the betters. So the best thing to do is upset them and make them realize they aren't the betters at all, they're just the same as every other idiot on the planet.

That's the only way you can defeat people who are run by feels, you hurt their self esteem to the point that they run into a corner crying about their feels. Nothing they suggest is run by reason or logic, they just want to "Feel" safe.

Well that sounds like a mature and reasonable debate strategy.

Maturity is overrated and they don't want to debate in the first place.

No one wants to actually debate anymore, everyone just wants the other side to shut up and obey. And using your victim status as a shield seems to only work if you were killed by something that works with the narrative.

[Gig em Aggies]

That's the only way you can defeat people who are run by feels, you hurt their self esteem to the point that they run into a corner crying about their feels. Nothing they suggest is run by reason or logic, they just want to "Feel" safe.

Well that sounds like a mature and reasonable debate strategy.
And of course they want to "feel" safe, they're children who went through an objectively horrifying experience. It doesn't make them right, but it doesn't mean they're crybabies.

When they resort to ruining people's business and to restrict constitutional rights then that's the point I give up what gives them the right to ruin others lives. Just like some of the parents at Sandy Hook they tried to hold gun manufacturers liable and they failed. These kids tell people never again like it's actually gonna do something well how bout they start with the never ending gang violence more people die every year by guns through gang violence then mass shootings yet they don't lift a fucking finger to march through the inner city demanding action from the government of these cities yet they demand people's right to own a gun be restricted.

[Northwest Slobovia]

That seems rather harsh. Instead of arguing against them like adults just go down to kid-level and bully them until they submit.

Because like they said they "Don't want a conversation", they outright want to no platform everyone who disagrees with them anyway cause they don't want a debate or argument.

Shut up and obey your betters is their view and they think they're the betters. So the best thing to do is upset them and make them realize they aren't the betters at all, they're just the same as every other idiot on the planet.

Nah. Now you're doing the right thing: calling them on their bullshit. Point out that an assault™-style weapons® ban won't do jack. You're not trying to convince them. There's rarely a point in trying to convince the hard core believers of anything; you're trying to convince the other 99% of the people.

[New Emeline]

That seems rather harsh. Instead of arguing against them like adults just go down to kid-level and bully them until they submit.

Because like they said they "Don't want a conversation", they outright want to no platform everyone who disagrees with them anyway cause they don't want a debate or argument.

Shut up and obey your betters is their view and they think they're the betters. So the best thing to do is upset them and make them realize they aren't the betters at all, they're just the same as every other idiot on the planet.

Well that sounds like a mature and reasonable debate strategy.

Maturity is overrated and they don't want to debate in the first place.

No one wants to actually debate anymore, everyone just wants the other side to shut up and obey. And using your victim status as a shield seems to only work if you were killed by something that works with the narrative.

I'm not talking about adults. I'm talking about children. If you disagree with the way their opinions are being propped up take it out on those shoving them into the spotlight.

[Grinning Dragon]

Well we went down town to see all the idiots march and ask to have their rights infringed upon, only a few of us had any pro gun signs, we were pretty much ignored, but then again we kinda stayed way in the back, just in case we needed to bail. Got into an argument in which one protester, who claimed this was just like a civil rights march, and my buddy, turns and says, "what fucking moron marches to have their rights curtailed and calls it a civil rights march?" Ah the stupidity down there was astounding, I think everyone might have gotten brain cancer.

[Washington Resistance Army]

So the DoJ posted their bump stock idea. It's as stupid as you'd assume, they don't even get the definition of what a bump stock is right.

[Hammer Britannia]

So the DoJ posted their bump stock idea. It's as stupid as you'd assume, they don't even get the definition of what a bump stock is right.

You lost me at "Machinegun"

Good lord, wtf is this? Is the real and official?

[Fartsniffage]

So the DoJ posted their bump stock idea. It's as stupid as you'd assume, they don't even get the definition of what a bump stock is right.

What is wrong with it?

[Grinning Dragon]

So the DoJ posted their bump stock idea. It's as stupid as you'd assume, they don't even get the definition of what a bump stock is right.

What is wrong with it?

First of all the DoJ doesn't have the authority to reinvent what is or is not a machine gun, that has to be done by congress.

[Fartsniffage]

What is wrong with it?

First of all the DoJ doesn't have the authority to reinvent what is or is not a machine gun, that has to be done by congress.

But the documents says they're not doing that. It says that they already fall under the definitions as given by Congress?

[Washington Resistance Army]

So the DoJ posted their bump stock idea. It's as stupid as you'd assume, they don't even get the definition of what a bump stock is right.

What is wrong with it?

Everything. DoJ is claiming that bump stocks work without any input from the user and thus are machineguns, that's objectively wrong and the ATF has said so 3 times now. Bump stocks do not meet the legal definition of a machinegun because the gun still fires one shot per trigger pull and the stock only works when you apply forward pressure to the receiver, thus making it a user operated system and not a machinegun.

[Fartsniffage]

What is wrong with it?

Everything. DoJ is claiming that bump stocks work without any input from the user and thus are machineguns, that's objectively wrong and the ATF has said so 3 times now. Bump stocks do not meet the legal definition of a machinegun because the gun still fires one shot per trigger pull and the stock only works when you apply forward pressure to the receiver, thus making it a user operated system and not a machinegun.

They've got round that quite neatly though. You're defining one pull of the trigger as a single manipulation of the mechanical device. They're now defining it as a single contraction of the finger.

You can disagree with it but it's not stupid and I'm sure it will keep many lawyers in BMWs for years to come...

[Washington Resistance Army]

Everything. DoJ is claiming that bump stocks work without any input from the user and thus are machineguns, that's objectively wrong and the ATF has said so 3 times now. Bump stocks do not meet the legal definition of a machinegun because the gun still fires one shot per trigger pull and the stock only works when you apply forward pressure to the receiver, thus making it a user operated system and not a machinegun.

They've got round that quite neatly though. You're defining one pull of the trigger as a single manipulation of the mechanical device. They're now defining it as a single contraction of the finger.

You can disagree with it but it's not stupid and I'm sure it will keep many lawyers in BMWs for years to come...

Which is nonsensical and will almost certainly die in court.

It's fun to see Trump nuking the GOP's midterms and 2020 chances though.

[Zyr and Pony]

I don't want to participate in this thread anymore because I don't want the headache (between this and other things in my life, I felt like I was going to have a stroke, hence my earlier disappearance), but I do want to note that the idea of bullying them into submission is why these protesters have such a strong voice. Trying to shout them down instead of listening is just generating support, for their side especially since "conversation" with the gun rights people tends to go nowhere except being ignored and shouted down by the pro-gun side, and thus it's time to go down a different, louder path.

By trying to shout them down, you're just strengthening their narrative that the pro-gun side doesn't want anything done, doesn't care about children and will bully any and all who oppose them, because their guns are more important than children's lives. If you want to weaken that narrative, then you should stop ad homing the students and find a narrative that doesn't seem to support that as it seems like to all these kids and so many others.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Magazine restrictions would do absolutely shit-all.

Phuc Long shall demonstrate.

Yup. The video showed exactly what I expected: somebody who knows their gun can reload in a snap under ideal conditions. That's hardly surprising. I could learn to do that too, with enough practice.

But that's not your average perp. Your average perp isn't an expert marksman, doesn't know their gun well, and isn't under ideal conditions. Anything that slows them down benefits the good guys.

Lemme try a different tack: I've managed for years and years with 10-round magazines. I don't see such restrictions as undue burdens. Why do you?

[Fartsniffage]

They've got round that quite neatly though. You're defining one pull of the trigger as a single manipulation of the mechanical device. They're now defining it as a single contraction of the finger.

You can disagree with it but it's not stupid and I'm sure it will keep many lawyers in BMWs for years to come...

Which is nonsensical and will almost certainly die in court.

It's fun to see Trump nuking the GOP's midterms and 2020 chances though.

If I put my foot on the accelerator in a car and hold it down until I break the speed limit, have I done a single action or many?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Which is nonsensical and will almost certainly die in court.

It's fun to see Trump nuking the GOP's midterms and 2020 chances though.

If I put my foot on the accelerator in a car and hold it down until I break the speed limit, have I done a single action or many?

A single, but that's not comparable to a bump stock.

[Fartsniffage]

If I put my foot on the accelerator in a car and hold it down until I break the speed limit, have I done a single action or many?

A single, but that's not comparable to a bump stock.

Why not? I've put my foot in a certain position and the machine under my control has been able to use that to fire the cylinders in the engine thousands of times.

Is the bump stock not a part of the machine under your control?

[Washington Resistance Army]

A single, but that's not comparable to a bump stock.

Why not? I've put my foot in a certain position and the machine under my control has been able to use that to fire the cylinders in the engine thousands of times.

Is the bump stock not a part of the machine under your control?

Because I think you have a misunderstanding of what a bump stock does. It doesn't just start full autoing your rifle the moment you fire.

The stock itself is hollow and when you fire the first shot the receiver recoils back into the stock away from your trigger finger and resets after ejecting the spent round. At this point the gun can't fire because the receiver is sitting snug in the stock and you can't reach the trigger. With your non trigger hand you then slide the receiver forward and fire again, with a lot of training you can eventually reach full auto type speeds.

That does not even remotely meet the definition of a machinegun as laid out in the NFA.

[Arengin Union]

I don't want to participate in this thread anymore because I don't want the headache (between this and other things in my life, I felt like I was going to have a stroke, hence my earlier disappearance), but I do want to note that the idea of bullying them into submission is why these protesters have such a strong voice. Trying to shout them down instead of listening is just generating support, for their side especially since "conversation" with the gun rights people tends to go nowhere except being ignored and shouted down by the pro-gun side, and thus it's time to go down a different, louder path.

By trying to shout them down, you're just strengthening their narrative that the pro-gun side doesn't want anything done, doesn't care about children and will bully any and all who oppose them, because their guns are more important than children's lives. If you want to weaken that narrative, then you should stop ad homing the students and find a narrative that doesn't seem to support that as it seems like to all these kids and so many others.

When you try to restrict civil rights, and outright have a "either with us or against us" mentality then expect for people to not take your shit. Its not pretty, its not okay, but the left does this on a regular basis. If one side is not willing to take into account the other and instead says they're right and they should make decisions, then the other has no obligation to listen to them.

[The Two Jerseys]

A single, but that's not comparable to a bump stock.

Why not? I've put my foot in a certain position and the machine under my control has been able to use that to fire the cylinders in the engine thousands of times.

Is the bump stock not a part of the machine under your control?

If I pull a paddle to shift gears instead of hold the clutch pedal in and move a lever, does that make it an automatic transmission?

[Albrenia]

Hey, keep on insulting kids if you want. Just saying it's a bad look even if they've earned it and plays really well for gun control people's optics.