Gun Control: Shiny Toy Guns

[Mithea III]

Epidemic means widespread occurrence (for diseases really, but we get the context). I wouldn't consider American mass shootings an epidemic even if you multiplied the people who have died in them by 5.

For me even 1 person dying from a gunshot is a lot, so I guess all those thousands multiplied by 5 for you isn't too many to give a fuck

You and another man in front of you have a gun. There are three other men in front of him. He is told that he will die if he doesn't kill those three men. Of course, being human, he goes to kill them. You could save the three men's lives by killing the man in front of you. No matter what you choose, every option has a consequence. So no, the people who have died in mass shootings in the last 12 months (which is nowhere near 1000) doesn't compare to giving up the right to bear arms, which doesn't mean mass shootings would go away anyways.

[Len Hyet]

Don't take this the wrong way, but your ignorance is showing.

We already have background checks. If you want to buy a gun from someone who sells guns for profit you have to fill out an ATF Form 4473, which the gun store uses to submit your data to NICS for a background check. Lying on a 4473 is a felony.

Now, what you might have meant was universal background checks. Bluntly, there's no point. The overwhelming majority of crime guns are obtained through lying on a 4473 (because the DoJ refuses to prosecute those liars), through family or friends, or through theft. A universal background check won't stop any of those.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you read my post properly. I never stated I agree with background checks (referring to universal ones like you pointed out, though I thought that was obvious), it was a question indicated by the "?". So anyway, what are your thoughts on the steps?

You asked what the next step should be, and suggested as an option background checks. I rebutted.

Better mental health. In my opinion I'm for psychological screenings of all people at multiple intervals in their lives, especially during childhood. It should be a part of every wellness exam and possibly done in schools.

Not only could it lower mass murders, but also have a lot of impact on all crime, and even things like suicides, which kill over 100 times more people than mass shootings. I'd rather like to think we're helping mentally ill people and that we could destigmatize it to some extent, but there'd also be a small percentage that would go on to commit major crimes, and they'd be stopped as well.

That sounds expensive. Given the debt and the deficit, this sorta thing cannot be afforded.

Sure it can. We end the godawful War on Drugs, stop subsidizing military equipment to police forces, dissolve the DEA and ATF (that's really more of a dream than a real policy suggestion but it makes me happy), and use the millions of saved dollars to revamp the mental health system in this country.

[Petrasylvania]

So what is the next step lawmakers should take? Background checks? Its obvious a ban doesnt make sense.

Better mental health. In my opinion I'm for psychological screenings of all people at multiple intervals in their lives, especially during childhood. It should be a part of every wellness exam and possibly done in schools.

Not only could it lower mass murders, but also have a lot of impact on all crime, and even things like suicides, which kill over 100 times more people than mass shootings. I'd rather like to think we're helping mentally ill people and that we could destigmatize it to some extent, but there'd also be a small percentage that would go on to commit major crimes, and they'd be stopped as well.

Mental health reform is just a cheap talking point to dodge firearms restrictions while the Republicans are more interested in slashing mental health spending. The only solution they're sincere with is the More Dakka approach of arming even more people in hopes one will heroically stop a shooter and validate their talking points.

[Telconi]

Better mental health. In my opinion I'm for psychological screenings of all people at multiple intervals in their lives, especially during childhood. It should be a part of every wellness exam and possibly done in schools.

Not only could it lower mass murders, but also have a lot of impact on all crime, and even things like suicides, which kill over 100 times more people than mass shootings. I'd rather like to think we're helping mentally ill people and that we could destigmatize it to some extent, but there'd also be a small percentage that would go on to commit major crimes, and they'd be stopped as well.

Mental health reform is just a cheap talking point to dodge firearms restrictions while the Republicans are more interested in slashing mental health spending. The only solution they're sincere with is the More Dakka approach of arming even more people in hopes one will heroically stop a shooter and validate their talking points.

I guess we go with that then.

[Big Jim P]

Epidemic means widespread occurrence (for diseases really, but we get the context). I wouldn't consider American mass shootings an epidemic even if you multiplied the people who have died in them by 5.

For me even 1 person dying from a gunshot is a lot, so I guess all those thousands multiplied by 5 for you isn't too many to give a fuck

Does this apply to legitimate self defense shooting?

[Manokan Republic]

Better mental health. In my opinion I'm for psychological screenings of all people at multiple intervals in their lives, especially during childhood. It should be a part of every wellness exam and possibly done in schools.

Not only could it lower mass murders, but also have a lot of impact on all crime, and even things like suicides, which kill over 100 times more people than mass shootings. I'd rather like to think we're helping mentally ill people and that we could destigmatize it to some extent, but there'd also be a small percentage that would go on to commit major crimes, and they'd be stopped as well.

That sounds expensive. Given the debt and the deficit, this sorta thing cannot be afforded.

I think the benefits would outweigh the costs. You could prevent many suicides, murders and numerous other problems in society, so in the long run it would pay for itself. The amount of money spent on say, housing criminals when roughly 50% have mental illnesses and poor health decisions cost hundreds of billions (with mentally ill far more likely to take drugs or get in to accidents), would save enough money to pay for the costs, and that's before you get in to the value of lives aved. You have to spend money to make money so, in the long run it would be a benefit.

[Manokan Republic]

Better mental health. In my opinion I'm for psychological screenings of all people at multiple intervals in their lives, especially during childhood. It should be a part of every wellness exam and possibly done in schools.

Not only could it lower mass murders, but also have a lot of impact on all crime, and even things like suicides, which kill over 100 times more people than mass shootings. I'd rather like to think we're helping mentally ill people and that we could destigmatize it to some extent, but there'd also be a small percentage that would go on to commit major crimes, and they'd be stopped as well.

Mental health reform is just a cheap talking point to dodge firearms restrictions while the Republicans are more interested in slashing mental health spending. The only solution they're sincere with is the More Dakka approach of arming even more people in hopes one will heroically stop a shooter and validate their talking points.

You realize it was the left that opposed a spending bill for improved mental health services right? That unless they got gun control they won't support better mental health programs.

And the basic fundamentals of Obamacare was first generated by Republicans, only they would have required a price ceiling for insurance companies so prices wouldn't be sky high. The Republicans also established the Medicare D act, which to this day was a bigger change to medicare than any other form of health legislation. And Ronald Reagan signed in to law the emergency healthcare act that forced hospitals to treat you even if you couldn't pay. The idea Republicans are opposed to healthcare spending is ridiculous, they just wanted a few things changed in Obamacare.

[Telconi]

Mental health reform is just a cheap talking point to dodge firearms restrictions while the Republicans are more interested in slashing mental health spending. The only solution they're sincere with is the More Dakka approach of arming even more people in hopes one will heroically stop a shooter and validate their talking points.

You realize it was the left that opposed a spending bill for improved mental health services right? That unless they got gun control they won't support better mental health programs.

And the basic fundamentals of Obamacare was first generated by Republicans, only they would have required a price ceiling for insurance companies so prices wouldn't be sky high. The Republicans also established the Medicare D act, which to this day was a bigger change to medicare than any other form of health legislation. And Ronald Reagan signed in to law the emergency healthcare act that forced hospitals to treat you even if you couldn't pay. The idea Republicans are opposed to healthcare spending is ridiculous, they just wanted a few things changed in Obamacare.

Of course it's rediculous, that's why Gauth spreads it.

[Chernoslavia]

Better mental health. In my opinion I'm for psychological screenings of all people at multiple intervals in their lives, especially during childhood. It should be a part of every wellness exam and possibly done in schools.

Not only could it lower mass murders, but also have a lot of impact on all crime, and even things like suicides, which kill over 100 times more people than mass shootings. I'd rather like to think we're helping mentally ill people and that we could destigmatize it to some extent, but there'd also be a small percentage that would go on to commit major crimes, and they'd be stopped as well.

Mental health reform is just a cheap talking point to dodge firearms restrictions while the Republicans are more interested in slashing mental health spending. The only solution they're sincere with is the More Dakka approach of arming even more people in hopes one will heroically stop a shooter and validate their talking points.

Better that than the Democrats indiscriminately banning guns that look ''scary'' and going after anyone with the slightest bit of mental health issues...

[Manokan Republic]

You realize it was the left that opposed a spending bill for improved mental health services right? That unless they got gun control they won't support better mental health programs.

And the basic fundamentals of Obamacare was first generated by Republicans, only they would have required a price ceiling for insurance companies so prices wouldn't be sky high. The Republicans also established the Medicare D act, which to this day was a bigger change to medicare than any other form of health legislation. And Ronald Reagan signed in to law the emergency healthcare act that forced hospitals to treat you even if you couldn't pay. The idea Republicans are opposed to healthcare spending is ridiculous, they just wanted a few things changed in Obamacare.

Of course it's rediculous, that's why Gauth spreads it.

It's so crazy when you're trying to have a reasonable conversation and people chime in with easily disprovable "facts". Do people google anymore or have they taken it for granted so long they just ignore it lol

Or maybe google is engineering it's results for political reasons...

[Hallistrom]

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-truth-about-guns/


the truth about guns might not be the best source.

Color me shocked that your mediabiadfactcheck lists TTAG as a site that promotes a pro 2nd Amendment view, as if that is a bad thing. At least your linked site gave them props for "HIGH" factual reporting.
I also included the twitter link that was recorded by a fellow student. And as someone who was bred, born and raised in MN, I can vouch for the leftist slant and often pushed opinions from teachers to students, and woe be unto them who resist that push by their teachers.

Sigh, more obvious neo red scare right wing garbage.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Color me shocked that your mediabiadfactcheck lists TTAG as a site that promotes a pro 2nd Amendment view, as if that is a bad thing. At least your linked site gave them props for "HIGH" factual reporting.
I also included the twitter link that was recorded by a fellow student. And as someone who was bred, born and raised in MN, I can vouch for the leftist slant and often pushed opinions from teachers to students, and woe be unto them who resist that push by their teachers.

Sigh, more obvious neo red scare right wing garbage.

"I keep getting proven wrong so I'm just gonna throw out buzzwords!"

[Hallistrom]

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-truth-about-guns/

the truth about guns might not be the best source.

In literally less time then it took you to post that bullshit opinion, you could have found any number of other sources saying the same thing to include actual video of the incident..

I know, I know, debating is hard.

And now the gun nuts are attacking me again. Le surprise.

[Hallistrom]

Sigh, more obvious neo red scare right wing garbage.

"I keep getting proven wrong so I'm just gonna throw out buzzwords!"

A neo reactionary ranting about how public schools are all part of a liberal conspiracy is not proof.

[Chernoslavia]

Color me shocked that your mediabiadfactcheck lists TTAG as a site that promotes a pro 2nd Amendment view, as if that is a bad thing. At least your linked site gave them props for "HIGH" factual reporting.
I also included the twitter link that was recorded by a fellow student. And as someone who was bred, born and raised in MN, I can vouch for the leftist slant and often pushed opinions from teachers to students, and woe be unto them who resist that push by their teachers.

Sigh, more obvious neo red scare right wing garbage.

In my final years of school I've literally seen teachers talk down to students for supporting McCain and how they should refrain from talking about politics in a ''school environment'', and all while wearing Obama T-shirts. Dragon's statement is accurate...

[Manokan Republic]

Color me shocked that your mediabiadfactcheck lists TTAG as a site that promotes a pro 2nd Amendment view, as if that is a bad thing. At least your linked site gave them props for "HIGH" factual reporting.
I also included the twitter link that was recorded by a fellow student. And as someone who was bred, born and raised in MN, I can vouch for the leftist slant and often pushed opinions from teachers to students, and woe be unto them who resist that push by their teachers.

Sigh, more obvious neo red scare right wing garbage.

If you just presume anything right wing is automatically wrong, than naturally you'll come the conclusion your side is right, but you'll dismiss the facts.

You can also fact check a source, so for example if a right-wing website claims that say, 93% of guns obtained in crimes are illegal, and you're not sure it's true, you can look for another source to confirm it, say like politifact or something.

[Washington Resistance Army]

"I keep getting proven wrong so I'm just gonna throw out buzzwords!"

A neo reactionary ranting about how public schools are all part of a liberal conspiracy is not proof.

Grinning Dragon is not a neo-reactionary, stop using words if you don't know what they mean.

[Hallistrom]

Sigh, more obvious neo red scare right wing garbage.

In my final years of school I've literally seen teachers talk down to students for supporting McCain and how they should refrain from talking about politics in a ''school environment'', and all while wearing Obama T-shirts. Dragon's statement is accurate...

I once saw a Trump supporter punch a black woman in the face while calling her the N Word. It must be true because I said it.

[Hallistrom]

A neo reactionary ranting about how public schools are all part of a liberal conspiracy is not proof.

Grinning Dragon is not a neo-reactionary, stop using words if you don't know what they mean.

If it walks like a duck...

[Manokan Republic]

"I keep getting proven wrong so I'm just gonna throw out buzzwords!"

A neo reactionary ranting about how public schools are all part of a liberal conspiracy is not proof.

It isn't that public schools are a part of a liberal conspiracy, it's about how liberal conspirators try to join public schools to promote their ideology.

Examples include the leaders of BAMN and antifa associated organization lead by a middle school teacher, the Evergreen madness where students rioted, the Berkley university riots where police stood down, and so on and so forth where all the university professors were involved in the riots. It's not that all education is tainted, it's that a small number of crazies join up specifically to recruit people for their cause. We know for a fact that the Russians liked to infiltrate universities and media companies to spread their message, so it's not that crazy to think other people would do it.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Grinning Dragon is not a neo-reactionary, stop using words if you don't know what they mean.

If it walks like a duck...

You probably don't know what a duck is either. I'm pretty sure he's a right libertarian.

[Paddy O Fernature]

In literally less time then it took you to post that bullshit opinion, you could have found any number of other sources saying the same thing to include actual video of the incident..

I know, I know, debating is hard.

And now the gun nuts are attacking me again. Le surprise.

You? No. You're absolutely shitty argument that can't even support itself? Absolutely.

Seriously, stop being deliberate and get on with it already.

[Manokan Republic]

Better mental health. In my opinion I'm for psychological screenings of all people at multiple intervals in their lives, especially during childhood. It should be a part of every wellness exam and possibly done in schools.

Not only could it lower mass murders, but also have a lot of impact on all crime, and even things like suicides, which kill over 100 times more people than mass shootings. I'd rather like to think we're helping mentally ill people and that we could destigmatize it to some extent, but there'd also be a small percentage that would go on to commit major crimes, and they'd be stopped as well.

What would they be looking for in those screenings? I believe the tests are designed to look for one thing only and there's none to just find something. Also, who would pay for all of the psychologists? What about the insane backlog each one would?

Well money would be spent to increase their numbers and streamline the process.

Also the screenings look for any kind of general problem. Psychological issues can be seen by trained professionals reflexively, so if someone displays obvious signs of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or what have you, it will be noticed.

[Hammer Britannia]

Grinning Dragon is not a neo-reactionary, stop using words if you don't know what they mean.

If it walks like a duck...

Then you don't know how a duck walks

[Hallistrom]

A neo reactionary ranting about how public schools are all part of a liberal conspiracy is not proof.

It isn't that public schools are a part of a liberal conspiracy, it's about how liberal conspirators try to join public schools to promote their ideology.

Examples include the leaders of BAMN and antifa associated organization lead by a middle school teacher, the Evergreen madness where students rioted, the Berkley university riots where police stood down, and so on and so forth where all the university professors were involved in the riots. It's not that all education is tainted, it's that a small number of crazies join up specifically to recruit people for their cause. We know for a fact that the Russians liked to infiltrate universities and media companies to spread their message, so it's not that crazy to think other people would do it.

'Egads! A small Asian woman hurt a Neo Nazis fee fees! The humanity!