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Gun Control: Shiny Toy Guns

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Am I Right?

Yeah, mostly, seems agreeable.
156
22%
Dunno/Not sure/Not American and I think that matters
40
6%
Nah, you're crazy. Guns should be more restricted.
187
26%
Nah, you're crazy. Guns should be less restricted.
287
40%
JC Christ CM come back when the meds wear off
54
7%
 
Total votes : 724

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Thermodolia
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Posts: 48433
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 am

I didnt vote for Trump wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Holy fuck. The fastest locomotive around the time the car was invented was already going 100mph.

I remember back in the day when the ol' locomotive didn't run by my house or at the right time I wanted so I just laid the track myself and bought a locomotive. Totally practical, anybody can do it.

What the fuck?
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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 am

Wysten wrote:
NewLiberalParty wrote:
Yeah it will kill the users but they are less likely to act out abusively when using it!

Actually they will kill just to get their fix.


This, a hundred times this^

Tweakers are sketchy people to be around.
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Australian gun control didn't work. A rebuttal to the "well regulated militia" argument.

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NewLiberalParty
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Posts: 188
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby NewLiberalParty » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:04 am

Topoliani wrote:
NewLiberalParty wrote:
The other ones only "hurt" people because they are illegal. If they were legal then no one would be getting hurt by them unlike the abusive drunk fathers beating their wives and kids or the smokers intoxicating their family or the public.

No, it's because meth fucks with the user's head, do you even know what meth IS?

In fact here's a brief synopsis on dosage,

In low doses, methamphetamine can elevate mood, increase alertness, concentration and energy in fatigued individuals, reduce appetite, and promote weight loss. At higher doses, it can induce psychosis, breakdown of skeletal muscle, seizures and bleeding in the brain. Chronic high-dose use can precipitate unpredictable and rapid mood swings, stimulant psychosis (e.g., paranoia, hallucinations, delirium, and delusions) and violent behavior.

Also, not all alcohol users beat their kids, that's a unfortunate stereotype


Enough do to the point where Drunk abusers make up over 12% of the male population

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I didnt vote for Trump
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Posts: 240
Founded: Nov 11, 2016
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Postby I didnt vote for Trump » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:04 am

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
NewLiberalParty wrote:
No no its not. You could not carry out any mass shooting over (4 or 5 shot) with a 1 bullet per reload.


Mass shootings are not the only type of deaths by guns out there, you know.

Do you really give a shit about the majority of gun deaths though? People killing themselves or others known to them aren't worth fake tears or gun control efforts because nobody really cares at the end of the day. Mass homicides are easily the most tragic gun deaths and the only types worth legislating gun control for.

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NewLiberalParty
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Posts: 188
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
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Postby NewLiberalParty » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:04 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Wysten wrote:Actually they will kill just to get their fix.


This, a hundred times this^

Tweakers are sketchy people to be around.


Because its illegal. That is why drugs should be legal minus Alcohol and Tabacco

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Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 85829
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:05 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Wysten wrote:Actually they will kill just to get their fix.


This, a hundred times this^

Tweakers are sketchy people to be around.


Even ex-tweakers think tweakers are scum lol
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

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Manokan Republic
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Postby Manokan Republic » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:05 am

NewLiberalParty wrote:
Ors Might wrote:No it’s not. I don’t know if I’d believe that there’s a single gun owner in America that would accept one fucking bullet capacity firearms. You’d be giving the private gun manufacturers a field day with all the business they’d get.


Only mass killers want unlimited ammo.

That's not true at all. The average police officer takes about 1 in 5 to 1 in 10 rounds per hit (page 4), or only around 10-20% of shots land, at ranges of under 30 feet [Page 4]. Not every hit is an incapacitation shot, such as shots to the arm and leg, and not every shot is a hit. The average police officer is trained, and has 2 other officers with him per suspect being apprehended. Civilians on the other hand are more likely to face off against multiple suspects due to the prevalence of gangs in armed robberies and burglaries, and have less accuracy due to less training. So a minimum then of 30 rounds is needed for the average civilian to handle the average burglary (10 rounds for three suspects), if he was as well trained as a police officer.

48% of violent crimes in this country are from gangs, so you're more likely to be attacked by multiple suspects ganging up on you than against a 1 v 1 scenario. So the average self defense situation, if you're as well trained as a cop would require about 30 rounds assuming it resulted in a real shoot-out and wasn't ended in a warning shot. And that's a bare minimum. Assuming a 100% kill rate in the middle of the night as a person is panicking because they're being attacked by burglars is asinine, and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how guns work.

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Sovaal
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Posts: 13105
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:05 am

NewLiberalParty wrote:Simple ban guns in 49 states and only allow guns in Texas. All the gun owners move to Texas and the rest of the country becomes as safe as Europe Canada new Zealand and Australia

>Silly Keshia brand plan

No

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"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia
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Founded: Oct 23, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:06 am

Gun control will not work, all you'll is criminalize legal gun owners, and the criminals who already have one will keep their guns. Then you also have to look at that most gun violence in America is cased by illegally owned or stolen firearms.

I also find it funny how people blame guns for shootings, like guns have a mind in reality our government namely the FBI drops the ball on school shooting warnings, and our under funded mental health program failed as well.
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Wysten
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Posts: 2383
Founded: Apr 29, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wysten » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:06 am

NewLiberalParty wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
This, a hundred times this^

Tweakers are sketchy people to be around.


Because its illegal. That is why drugs should be legal minus Alcohol and Tabacco

No because it's addictive as fuck.
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Topoliani
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Posts: 828
Founded: Aug 19, 2017
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Postby Topoliani » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:06 am

NewLiberalParty wrote:
Topoliani wrote:No, it's because meth fucks with the user's head, do you even know what meth IS?

In fact here's a brief synopsis on dosage,

In low doses, methamphetamine can elevate mood, increase alertness, concentration and energy in fatigued individuals, reduce appetite, and promote weight loss. At higher doses, it can induce psychosis, breakdown of skeletal muscle, seizures and bleeding in the brain. Chronic high-dose use can precipitate unpredictable and rapid mood swings, stimulant psychosis (e.g., paranoia, hallucinations, delirium, and delusions) and violent behavior.

Also, not all alcohol users beat their kids, that's a unfortunate stereotype


Enough do to the point where Drunk abusers make up over 12% of the male population

Only 8.4% of male adults have Alcohol Use Disorder, not this magical 12%
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Posts: 85829
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:07 am

I didnt vote for Trump wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Mass shootings are not the only type of deaths by guns out there, you know.

Do you really give a shit about the majority of gun deaths though? People killing themselves or others known to them aren't worth fake tears or gun control efforts because nobody really cares at the end of the day. Mass homicides are easily the most tragic gun deaths and the only types worth legislating gun control for.


I do, yea. Because the problem is, again, not the gun.

Personally, I know I will probably never be a victim of a mass shooting. I know that I could have a gun pointed at my head at least once in my lifetime because some asshole decided they just didn't like me enough. Placing my priorities in banning guns that kill a lot of people is extremely irrelevant to my personal worries.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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I didnt vote for Trump
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Posts: 240
Founded: Nov 11, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby I didnt vote for Trump » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:07 am

Thermodolia wrote:
I didnt vote for Trump wrote:I remember back in the day when the ol' locomotive didn't run by my house or at the right time I wanted so I just laid the track myself and bought a locomotive. Totally practical, anybody can do it.

What the fuck?

Yeah, that's the reaction I have when people suggest cars aren't that important. The one invention America was literally built around to the point where suburbs are sprawled in all directions on cheap land that's virtually inaccessible by public transport. The one invention that would literally tank the economy overnight if half the suburban population couldn't get to work the next day and people say "derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp ban carsssssssssssssssssssssssss" like they're Albert fucking Einstein.

What the fuck, man. What the fuck.

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Thermodolia
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Posts: 48433
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:07 am

Manokan Republic wrote:
NewLiberalParty wrote:
Only mass killers want unlimited ammo.

That's not true at all. The average police officer takes about 1 in 5 to 1 in 10 rounds per hit (page 4), or only around 10-20% of shots land, at ranges of under 30 feet [Page 4]. Not every hit is an incapacitation shot, such as shots to the arm and leg, and not every shot is a hit. The average police officer is trained, and has 2 other officers with him per suspect being apprehended. Civilians on the other hand are more likely to face off against multiple suspects due to the prevalence of gangs in armed robberies and burglaries, and have less accuracy due to less training. So a minimum then of 30 rounds is needed for the average civilian to handle the average burglary (10 rounds for three suspects), if he was as well trained as a police officer.

48% of violent crimes in this country are from gangs, so you're more likely to be attacked by multiple suspects ganging up on you than against a 1 v 1 scenario. So the average self defense situation, if you're as well trained as a cop would require about 30 rounds assuming it resulted in a real shoot-out and wasn't ended in a warning shot. And that's a bare minimum. Assuming a 100% kill rate in the middle of the night as a person is panicking because they're being attacked by burglars is asinine, and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how guns work.


Pretty much. As they say everyone misses the first shot.
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Sovaal
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:07 am

NewLiberalParty wrote:
Topoliani wrote:Keshi, it's only reasonable because you agree with it

Replace the guns with drugs, I.E Danger level 5 would be Meth, and you would bash it


Drugs minus Alcohol and Tabacco only hurt the User.

My uncle an aunt abandoned their kids over heroin.

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Unapologetic Jon Snow supporter
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:07 am

NewLiberalParty wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
This, a hundred times this^

Tweakers are sketchy people to be around.


Because its illegal. That is why drugs should be legal minus Alcohol and Tabacco


No it's because they'll kill you over the smallest things. Meth is a scary fucking drug, it's illegality has nothing to do with that.
Angry American who likes guns and trees
Islamophobia is a virtue
Australian gun control didn't work. A rebuttal to the "well regulated militia" argument.

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Manokan Republic
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Founded: Dec 15, 2017
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Postby Manokan Republic » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:08 am

NewLiberalParty wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Mass shootings are not the only type of deaths by guns out there, you know.


Once again stopping Mass shootings takes priority over stopping other shootings because mass shooting affect those who have avoided being is areas or situations where they get a target on their back by killers.

I know 100% I will not die by targeted murder. I do know that I could end up dead due to a mass shooting. So Mass shootings > Regular shootings for priority of stopping.

Even though more people die from regular murders, mass murders take precedence because it scares you more? Because you're rich and certain you'll never be targeted, so mass murders scare you more and need to be stopped? This isn't actually about saving lives but just your own life and eliminating your own fears?

At least you are honest.

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Manokan Republic
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Postby Manokan Republic » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:09 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Manokan Republic wrote:That's not true at all. The average police officer takes about 1 in 5 to 1 in 10 rounds per hit (page 4), or only around 10-20% of shots land, at ranges of under 30 feet [Page 4]. Not every hit is an incapacitation shot, such as shots to the arm and leg, and not every shot is a hit. The average police officer is trained, and has 2 other officers with him per suspect being apprehended. Civilians on the other hand are more likely to face off against multiple suspects due to the prevalence of gangs in armed robberies and burglaries, and have less accuracy due to less training. So a minimum then of 30 rounds is needed for the average civilian to handle the average burglary (10 rounds for three suspects), if he was as well trained as a police officer.

48% of violent crimes in this country are from gangs, so you're more likely to be attacked by multiple suspects ganging up on you than against a 1 v 1 scenario. So the average self defense situation, if you're as well trained as a cop would require about 30 rounds assuming it resulted in a real shoot-out and wasn't ended in a warning shot. And that's a bare minimum. Assuming a 100% kill rate in the middle of the night as a person is panicking because they're being attacked by burglars is asinine, and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how guns work.


Pretty much. As they say everyone misses the first shot.

Most people miss the first 10 xD

And that's at close range. The idea that you will get 30 kills with 30 bullets is just silly.

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Thermodolia
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Posts: 48433
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:09 am

I didnt vote for Trump wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:What the fuck?

Yeah, that's the reaction I have when people suggest cars aren't that important. The one invention America was literally built around to the point where suburbs are sprawled in all directions on cheap land that's virtually inaccessible by public transport. The one invention that would literally tank the economy overnight if half the suburban population couldn't get to work the next day and people say "derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp ban carsssssssssssssssssssssssss" like they're Albert fucking Einstein.

What the fuck, man. What the fuck.

Holy shit. You need to have some reading comprehension. I never said anything about banning cars. Nor do I want to. What I did say is that it was the train that made mass transit possible and cheep. Not the automobile, that’s not to say it didn’t make a big impact but it wasn’t the first to do it.
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Sovaal
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:10 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
NewLiberalParty wrote:
Because its illegal. That is why drugs should be legal minus Alcohol and Tabacco


No it's because they'll kill you over the smallest things. Meth is a scary fucking drug, it's illegality has nothing to do with that.

Maybe if we tell him the Nazis used it he’ll be against it.
Last edited by Sovaal on Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dirty centrist
Unapologetic Jon Snow supporter
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 85829
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:10 am

Manokan Republic wrote:
NewLiberalParty wrote:
Once again stopping Mass shootings takes priority over stopping other shootings because mass shooting affect those who have avoided being is areas or situations where they get a target on their back by killers.

I know 100% I will not die by targeted murder. I do know that I could end up dead due to a mass shooting. So Mass shootings > Regular shootings for priority of stopping.

Even though more people die from regular murders, mass murders take precedence because it scares you more? Because you're rich and certain you'll never be targeted, so mass murders scare you more and need to be stopped? This isn't actually about saving lives but just your own life and eliminating your own fears?

At least you are honest.


I mean, I don't even live in the ghetto, but I'd be hard pressed to find one mass shooting in my city that I could say "shit, I dodged a bullet by not being there today".

I am not as hard pressed to find a person I can say "I am glad I am not pissing them off nor do I know them or see them for them to point a gun at my temple today".
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48433
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:11 am

Manokan Republic wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:
Pretty much. As they say everyone misses the first shot.

Most people miss the first 10 xD

And that's at close range. The idea that you will get 30 kills with 30 bullets is just silly.

Oh definitely. I mean there’s a difference between me making 30 shots at a range and me making 30 shots at a few intruders
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

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I didnt vote for Trump
Envoy
 
Posts: 240
Founded: Nov 11, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby I didnt vote for Trump » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:11 am

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
I didnt vote for Trump wrote:Do you really give a shit about the majority of gun deaths though? People killing themselves or others known to them aren't worth fake tears or gun control efforts because nobody really cares at the end of the day. Mass homicides are easily the most tragic gun deaths and the only types worth legislating gun control for.


I do, yea. Because the problem is, again, not the gun.

Personally, I know I will probably never be a victim of a mass shooting. I know that I could have a gun pointed at my head at least once in my lifetime because some asshole decided they just didn't like me enough.

I, on the otherhand, don't associate with gangbangers or any other lowlifes who make a habit out of pointing guns at people who don't like me enough, so I'm not worried about having a gun pointed to my head. I can control that with my own common sense. What I can't control is accidentally walking into the wrong shopping mall at the wrong time of day, as rare as that may be.

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Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13105
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:13 am

I didnt vote for Trump wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
I do, yea. Because the problem is, again, not the gun.

Personally, I know I will probably never be a victim of a mass shooting. I know that I could have a gun pointed at my head at least once in my lifetime because some asshole decided they just didn't like me enough.

I, on the otherhand, don't associate with gangbangers or any other lowlifes who make a habit out of pointing guns at people who don't like me enough, so I'm not worried about having a gun pointed to my head. I can control that with my own common sense. What I can't control is accidentally walking into the wrong shopping mall at the wrong time of day, as rare as that may be.

Doesn’t matter if you don’t associate with them, plenty of people still die in the crossfire in gang wars.

Dirty centrist
Unapologetic Jon Snow supporter
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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NewLiberalParty
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby NewLiberalParty » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:13 am

Manokan Republic wrote:
NewLiberalParty wrote:
Once again stopping Mass shootings takes priority over stopping other shootings because mass shooting affect those who have avoided being is areas or situations where they get a target on their back by killers.

I know 100% I will not die by targeted murder. I do know that I could end up dead due to a mass shooting. So Mass shootings > Regular shootings for priority of stopping.

Even though more people die from regular murders, mass murders take precedence because it scares you more? Because you're rich and certain you'll never be targeted, so mass murders scare you more and need to be stopped? This isn't actually about saving lives but just your own life and eliminating your own fears?

At least you are honest.


Only about 1% of the counties/cities in the US deal with "regular" murders the rest of the country only really has death through mass murder. Thus those who made the choice to live in the 99% safe areas deserve to be prioritized over those who made the choice to live in the 1% murder ridden parts of the USA.

Its about saving those who made the choice to live in a safe place and protect them selves.

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