Is it weakness to be terrified of war?

[VoVoDoCo]

This needs a poll.

And afraid of this?

That's to be expected. I'd consider someone to be more virtuous if they feared expensive, pointless, and dangerous mass murder. There's nothing wrong with it. And if there is, I don't want to be right.

[Herador]

Every combat veteran I've ever either talked to personally, and it's been a fair few, or heard talk about combat have all said the same thing: they were scared. The fear goes eventually most of the time to hear them tell it, but it isn't really gone, you've just locked it away where it can't control you.

I asked a former Marine that once over a beer, what he did with the fear, he told me that you listen to it but don't act on it on instinct.

So I guess theres the best answer I can give.

[Senkaku]

...you're kinda supposed to be.

[Infected Mushroom]

It is a weakness.

If you aren't willing to fight for your people, why would your people fight for you?

[Salus Maior]

No, it's completely understandable.

War, however, is something that's never going to go away so it's best to find a way to make peace with that.

[Infected Mushroom]

...you're kinda supposed to be.

If its supposed to be, then how do you explain the glorious sacrifices in the past made in war?

[Salus Maior]

...you're kinda supposed to be.

If its supposed to be, then how do you explain the glorious sacrifices in the past made in war?

If you're so pro-war and so unafraid of war why are you terrified of guns?

[Infected Mushroom]

If its supposed to be, then how do you explain the glorious sacrifices in the past made in war?

If you're so pro-war and so unafraid of war why are you terrified of guns?

Who said I was pro-war?

It depends on the reasons for the war. But if it comes down to it and there has to be a war for a just cause, there should be no backing down.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It is a weakness.

If you aren't willing to fight for your people, why would your people fight for you?

Aren't you afraid of dogs?

[The Black Forrest]

You are fine.

I remember reading about the 4th Armored division and a guy was talking about a guy who was considered the best soldier in the regiment. He spoke about a major fight and recalled seeing him firing the machine gun on top of his tank. There was an artillery flash and he saw his face and he was scared. He kept firing though. The guy said at that point he knew he would survive the war and he did.

[Kubra]

I mean war from the invention of the explosive artillery shell has been shit scary, up from simply terrifying from previous generations.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

Have you considered the possibility that the glorification of war is necessary to make it possible? That humans are naturally disinclined to risking their lives, and it takes a lot of effort (Such as months of bootcamp, a culture of war-story-glorification or the threat of starvation etc.) to overcome such risks?

Yes I have. I didn't disagree with it's value as a coping mechanism. I do say it is natural though. There is no reason to assume glorification of warriors is a purely modern construct that wouldn't exist without modern war. Keep in mind hero worship has it's roots in pre history. It comes before metallurgy. When modern man encounters the last uncontacted people's they often tell tales that sound childlike about their ancestor completing impossible feats of combat. This suggests a pre Mesolithic or maybe even pre Paleolithic origin.

Let me emphasize I AM NOT SAYING WAR IS GLORIOUS I am saying that viewing glory in it from a safe distance of time and or space is a natural reaction.

[Senkaku]

...you're kinda supposed to be.

If its supposed to be, then how do you explain the glorious sacrifices in the past made in war?

Why would making a sacrifice mean that someone isn't afraid?

It is a weakness.

If you aren't willing to fight for your people, why would your people fight for you?

Yeah, given that you're the same guy who thinks managers talk to their employees like pissed off elf-lords and who unironically idolizes the society in GOT I think I'll disregard your silly opinions about the world.

[The Greater Siriusian Domain]

"It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it."

[Shaggtopia]

Fear isn't weakness but impulse, to be unafraid of war would simply be insanity. Those who fight in wars are afraid, those who instigate wars are afraid, it is human nature or rather nature itself to be afraid. Personally I'm not a fan of the breakdown of communication that proceeds war, but these things happen and there is nothing I can personally do at this point in my life to stop that.

[Minzerland II]

Of course it isn't, it is natural and understandable to be terrified of war; weakness, on the other hand, is the failure to overcome or forgo it when necessary.

[Empire of Narnia]

People should be scared of war for obvious reasons.

[FreethinkingAnarchists ResidingWherever]

No. It's weakness to approve of war, and it's cowardice to participate in one.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

War is hell, so it’s perfectly fine to be terrified of war, I know I am.

[Vallermoore]

It's not weakness if the other country has nuclear weapons and/or a much bigger and better army then yours.

[Minzerland II]

No. It's weakness to approve of war, and it's cowardice to participate in one.

This is utter nonsense, there is nothing weak about approving or participating in war, especially when necessary. I'd hazard a guess that many of those people you deride as 'weak' and 'cowardly' are far braver than you and I combined, in fact.

[Donut section]

Im uncertain how this has anything to do with the topic. But I will answer anyway.

The Declaration of Independence was an example of a non large government declaring war. I would say not since the creation of modern professional militaries.

Of course, yes.

Another reason why we need to limit government.

The questions related to your own post.

So, as you point out, even limited governments declare war, so your earlier statements about declarations of war being related to flawed decisions by "too much government" doesn't really seem to follow.

When you say "of course, yes", you mean that those civilian non-combatants do exist. That seems to be incongruent with your earlier post that "Civilian non combatants exist only because both sides agree to not target them" which appears to not be the case. They exist in war zones whether both sides agree to target them or not.

It seems there are some contradictions within your position, and you seem very focused on this idea of an issue of limited government. From reviewing those areas and times where wars happen, it doesn't really appear that more or less "limited" government prevents wars, but I see that advocating for limited government is very important to you.

So, back to the topic, are there commentators here who have direct experience with a war?

Considering that the point I was making wasn't that wars are unjust, the American war of independence was very just. The later American wars for oil were not just. The key difference was the size of the government.

The counter point here is that if both sides decide to target them they are not non combatants anymore.

None of my positions hold that the aim is to avoid wars, just unjust wars. So I'm not seeing any contradiction.

[Kistan]

If you're terrified to the point of passivity or inaction when you really must act, it's a weakness. If you are terrified, but still defend yourself when it's do or die, it's not. It's natural to be afraid of injury, and to hedge your bets towards survival -- so long as you aren't crippled by your fear, it's nothing to be ashamed of no matter what a war hawk might call or tell you.

[The Huskar Social Union]

No of course not. I'd say most people are terrified of war, its a pretty horrible thing.

[USS Monitor]

I don't know what I would do in a war. I'm not a soldier, I have no training. I suppose I would flee, or if no other choice, try to do what I could. But mostly I think I would be very afraid.

Is this weakness?

It's normal to be scared. Lots of people do flee from wars. Even people who stay and fight might still be scared, but they just didn't give in to their fear.

Is there a survival advantage or other virtue in one who is not afraid, or who is even eager for war?

Depends on context. Sometimes a willingness to fight is an advantage because it lets you control resources that your people need to thrive. Other times it is a disadvantage because you die on the battlefield.

Are those who glorify and revel in its premise stronger? Will they function better if/when it comes?

Depends on the individual, but mostly no. There are plenty of people who talk tough, but then when it comes for them to actually put their ass on the line, they find some way to weasel out of it. Or they try to fight and discover they just aren't very good at it. There are also people who prefer not to fight and will only do it as a last resort, but they can still put up a good fight when they have to.