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Is it weakness to be terrified of war?

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Yagon
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Is it weakness to be terrified of war?

Postby Yagon » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:44 pm

I've never been in a war. I've spoken with people who have been in one. I've seen footage. I've never experienced it.

I see academic discussion if it, which his understandable, as it makes sense to study it because its something that happens. I see humor applied to it, as humans apply humor to cancer, murder, rape, and anything else. I see it discussed by people who have read about it, and know dates and unit descriptions and accounts of battle.

But I am terrified of it. I think it would be scary, many would die, including children and the elderly and people who had no control over events.

I don't know what I would do in a war. I'm not a soldier, I have no training. I suppose I would flee, or if no other choice, try to do what I could. But mostly I think I would be very afraid.

Is this weakness? Is there a survival advantage or other virtue in one who is not afraid, or who is even eager for war? Are those who glorify and revel in its premise stronger? Will they function better if/when it comes?

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Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:44 pm

It's natural.

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Postby Donut section » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:47 pm

Weakness is knowing you need to do something and not doing it.
Wether war is necessary is the problem.

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Postby Salandriagado » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:50 pm

No, it's common sense. If you aren't scared of it, you are, frankly, insane. Being brave isn't about not being scared.
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Postby Gaozu » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:51 pm

It's a strength.
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Yagon
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Postby Yagon » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:52 pm

Donut section wrote:Weakness is knowing you need to do something and not doing it.
Wether war is necessary is the problem.


That seems to be a problem and a decision for people with powers much greater than mine. I believe (I do not know, I am not an expert in history) that many of those going through a war were not the ones to decide if it were necessary or not.

We seem to be some ways out from developing a means of human civilization from which war is absent. I would support movement towards structures that avoid war.

In those instances when it occurs, though, what is it a civilian non-combatant would need to do in a war? Seeking cover and safety (fleeing) would seem like a need. Are there others?

Would "not doing it" mean paralysis from fear? Are those who do not "do what they need to do" in a war weak?

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Postby Naval Monte » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:54 pm

There is no shame in being afraid of war and what it brings to soldiers and civilians.
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Giovenith
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Postby Giovenith » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:54 pm

No, it's common sense. The glorification of war is what's unnatural, we only do so specifically to overcome our distaste and fear of it.
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Postby Hittanryan » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:56 pm

Modern warfare is dehumanized carnage at terrifying speed. In a real shooting war there's a good chance you'll be killed without ever seeing your enemy. Anyone untrained and sane would and should be terrified of it. It takes rigorous training to overcome our ingrained fight-or-flight response to create unit cohesion in the military.
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Yagon
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Postby Yagon » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:02 pm

I apologize for not responding individually to many of the responses, they seem very reasonable in the aggregate.

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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:04 pm

That's not weakness. It's quite normal. War is something we don't engage in lightly
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Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:11 pm

Giovenith wrote:No, it's common sense. The glorification of war is what's unnatural, we only do so specifically to overcome our distaste and fear of it.

Glorification of war is natural. Virtually every culture in all of human history has admired it's honorable warriors even uncontacted people's do. War is what is unnatural. Or at the very least modern war.
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:12 pm

That'd make just about everyone who's been to war weak
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Postby Bombadil » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:14 pm

Wars are pretty miserable though at least Vietnam had a good soundtrack.
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:17 pm

I'd fear for your sanity if you were eager for it. So no, fear of war is perfectly reasonable.

Is it a weakness? Probably, if you have to actually fight. But fear is often a good motivation for survival.
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Postby Pan-America under the United States » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:17 pm

Anybody who isn't afraid of war is either crazy, stupid or have never been in war themselves.

It's weakness to avoid war at all costs. It's weakness to accept living in slavery or subjection as opposed to fighting a costly war.

To answer your question, no. It's not weakness to be terrified of it, it should never be taken lightly. Just know when a price is too high to avoid a war.

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Postby Socialist Union Of Deutschland » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:18 pm

You cannot describe war unless you were in one.

To be terrified of war is only a natural human trait. Being terrified of war is due to not knowing what will happen in the war.
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Postby Stormwrath » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:18 pm

No. You're not weak in being terrified of war, just as you're not strong in wanting to dive headfirst into it.

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Postby Wine-loving Chimps » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:19 pm

You're fine. It's entirely sensible to fear the razing of cities, the deaths of thousands and the other unspeakable horrors that occur in war. I mean, just spend 10 minutes watching some of those videos that are coming out of Syria.

I'd even argue it's a strength. People who are not afraid of war are almost certainly like that because they don't understand it. They underestimate it, in other words. Being afraid means that, if there ever does come a situation where it might be necessary, the decision won't be a flippant one.
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Postby Diyaristan » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:19 pm

Even the brave are afraid of war, deep down. I've been in some violent situations in my life, even one that turned potentially deadly. I like to think I'm braver than I used to be, but it is still not a pleasant experience.
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Yagon
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Postby Yagon » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:19 pm

Socialist Union Of Deutschland wrote:You cannot describe war unless you were in one.

To be terrified of war is only a natural human trait. Being terrified of war is due to not knowing what will happen in the war.


If someone were exposed to war and thus had some direct experience with it, they would be less terrified? (Or perhaps fear more specific aspects of it?)

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Postby Attempted Socialism » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:20 pm

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Giovenith wrote:No, it's common sense. The glorification of war is what's unnatural, we only do so specifically to overcome our distaste and fear of it.

Glorification of war is natural. Virtually every culture in all of human history has admired it's honorable warriors even uncontacted people's do. War is what is unnatural. Or at the very least modern war.
Have you considered the possibility that the glorification of war is necessary to make it possible? That humans are naturally disinclined to risking their lives, and it takes a lot of effort (Such as months of bootcamp, a culture of war-story-glorification or the threat of starvation etc.) to overcome such risks?

As a direct response to OP, I think being afraid of war in the abstract is a sign of sanity. Being terrified may be a sane response to a clear danger of war, or danger of being drafted, but being terrified in ones daily life is an issue.


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Soyouso
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Postby Soyouso » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:22 pm

Yagon wrote:I've never been in a war. I've spoken with people who have been in one. I've seen footage. I've never experienced it.

I see academic discussion if it, which his understandable, as it makes sense to study it because its something that happens. I see humor applied to it, as humans apply humor to cancer, murder, rape, and anything else. I see it discussed by people who have read about it, and know dates and unit descriptions and accounts of battle.

But I am terrified of it. I think it would be scary, many would die, including children and the elderly and people who had no control over events.

I don't know what I would do in a war. I'm not a soldier, I have no training. I suppose I would flee, or if no other choice, try to do what I could. But mostly I think I would be very afraid.

Is this weakness? Is there a survival advantage or other virtue in one who is not afraid, or who is even eager for war? Are those who glorify and revel in its premise stronger? Will they function better if/when it comes?

It all depends. If one is afraid of war because they are afraid of standing up for their beliefs and the people they love, so much so that they want the very nation to cease standing up for itself, I view them as a coward. If one is afraid of war because of the possibility of a bunch of people invading villages with their chariots and slaughtering people on either side, this is normal. No one wants soldiers to invade their village and kill everyone they love, nor do they want to imagine it happening to others. As far as I can tell, your fear is the latter kind, so unless proven otherwise I don't see you as spiritually weak.

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Insaeldor
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Postby Insaeldor » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:22 pm

Everyone who's capable of fighting a war is terrified of war. Every vet I've known in my life has echoed that sentiment to me whenever the subject comes up.
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Yagon
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Postby Yagon » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:23 pm

Attempted Socialism wrote:Have you considered the possibility that the glorification of war is necessary to make it possible? That humans are naturally disinclined to risking their lives, and it takes a lot of effort (Such as months of bootcamp, a culture of war-story-glorification or the threat of starvation etc.) to overcome such risks?

As a direct response to OP, I think being afraid of war in the abstract is a sign of sanity. Being terrified may be a sane response to a clear danger of war, or danger of being drafted, but being terrified in ones daily life is an issue.


I am extremely fortunate to be in a place where war in any immediate sense is very very very unlikely, so I don't have to engage with the premise on any daily basis. I'm too old to be drafted.

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