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by Taihei Tengoku » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:05 pm
by Kubumba Tribe » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:09 pm
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.
by Collatis » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:10 pm
Telconi wrote:Collatis wrote:I'm not arguing that Scandinavia is socialist. It's not. I'm arguing that it is closer to socialism than the vast majority of the world.
But it isn't, that's the point, unionization is in no way related to socialism. And the union culture is as was said "bolted on" to very laissez-faire style evonomies.
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders
by Aillyria » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:13 pm
Taihei Tengoku wrote:I am suggesting you don't know anything about economics and stake positions based on emotive attachments
Conserative Morality wrote:If RWDT were Romans, who would they be?
......
Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist
West Oros wrote:GOD DAMMIT! I thought you wouldn't be here.
Well you aren't a real socialist. Just a sociopath disguised as one.
Not to mention that this thread split off from LWDT, so I assumed you would think this thread was a "revisionist hellhole".
by Kubumba Tribe » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:13 pm
Collatis wrote:Telconi wrote:
But it isn't, that's the point, unionization is in no way related to socialism. And the union culture is as was said "bolted on" to very laissez-faire style evonomies.
Unionization is extremely related to socialism. Unions aren't just powerful in Scandinavia. They plan an enshrined, institutional role in the economy. Scandinavia features far more economic democracy, the essential component of socialism, than much of the world.
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.
by Taihei Tengoku » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:15 pm
Collatis wrote:Telconi wrote:
But it isn't, that's the point, unionization is in no way related to socialism. And the union culture is as was said "bolted on" to very laissez-faire style evonomies.
Unionization is extremely related to socialism. Unions aren't just powerful in Scandinavia. They plan an enshrined, institutional role in the economy. Scandinavia features far more economic democracy, the essential component of socialism, than much of the world.
by Taihei Tengoku » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:16 pm
Aillyria wrote:neither of us is a scholar
by Aillyria » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:18 pm
Kubumba Tribe wrote:Aillyria, what do you think of this?
https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/ ... am-part-1/ There's 2 parts to this article
Conserative Morality wrote:If RWDT were Romans, who would they be?
......
Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist
West Oros wrote:GOD DAMMIT! I thought you wouldn't be here.
Well you aren't a real socialist. Just a sociopath disguised as one.
Not to mention that this thread split off from LWDT, so I assumed you would think this thread was a "revisionist hellhole".
by Kubumba Tribe » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:23 pm
Aillyria wrote:Kubumba Tribe wrote:Aillyria, what do you think of this?
https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/ ... am-part-1/ There's 2 parts to this article
Allah (swt) is great and wise, so much of the spirit this is in socialism. I don't understand how any God loving human can be capitalist, it's the paradigm of Iblis.
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.
by Aillyria » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:23 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:If RWDT were Romans, who would they be?
......
Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist
West Oros wrote:GOD DAMMIT! I thought you wouldn't be here.
Well you aren't a real socialist. Just a sociopath disguised as one.
Not to mention that this thread split off from LWDT, so I assumed you would think this thread was a "revisionist hellhole".
by Collatis » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:27 pm
Taihei Tengoku wrote:Collatis wrote:Unionization is extremely related to socialism. Unions aren't just powerful in Scandinavia. They plan an enshrined, institutional role in the economy. Scandinavia features far more economic democracy, the essential component of socialism, than much of the world.
Which is why they aren't exceptionally wealthier (which was the whole point of socialism in the first place!) than capitalist economies--Scandinavians in the United States are better off than Scandinavians in Scandinavia. Only Norwegians are better-off than Norwegian Americans--though this is entirely explained by Statoil, not "workplace democracy."
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders
by Valgora » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:27 pm
Aillyria wrote:Kubumba Tribe wrote:Aillyria, what do you think of this?
https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/ ... am-part-1/ There's 2 parts to this article
Allah (swt) is great and wise, so much of the spirit this is in socialism. I don't understand how any God loving human can be capitalist, it's the paradigm of Iblis.
MT+FanT+some PMT
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by Taihei Tengoku » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:36 pm
Collatis wrote:Taihei Tengoku wrote:Which is why they aren't exceptionally wealthier (which was the whole point of socialism in the first place!) than capitalist economies--Scandinavians in the United States are better off than Scandinavians in Scandinavia. Only Norwegians are better-off than Norwegian Americans--though this is entirely explained by Statoil, not "workplace democracy."
I'm not sure why you keep trying to turn this into a debate about a completely different topic. I'm not discussing whether the Nordic model, the American model, or socialism is the best system. I'm arguing that the Nordic model is closer to socialism than most systems present in the world.
by Collatis » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:40 pm
Taihei Tengoku wrote:Collatis wrote:I'm not sure why you keep trying to turn this into a debate about a completely different topic. I'm not discussing whether the Nordic model, the American model, or socialism is the best system. I'm arguing that the Nordic model is closer to socialism than most systems present in the world.
If you only look at unionization.
By measures of actual socialism (state share of GDP, ease of doing business, actual state policy) Nordics are capitalists.
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders
by Donut section » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:40 pm
Aillyria wrote:Donut section wrote:
That's an oxymoron.
Only if you don't know anything about economics, or intellectually dishonest, perhaps.
http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Market_Socialism
Knowledge can set you free.
by Taihei Tengoku » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:43 pm
Collatis wrote:Taihei Tengoku wrote:If you only look at unionization.
By measures of actual socialism (state share of GDP, ease of doing business, actual state policy) Nordics are capitalists.
Actual socialism has to do with economic democracy, not "ease of doing business". You seem to be defining socialism as things you don't like. I have clearly demonstrated that the Nordic countries are closer to socialism than most countries. That does not, however, mean that they aren't capitalist, as I have previously stated.
by Aillyria » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:48 pm
Collatis wrote:Taihei Tengoku wrote:If you only look at unionization.
By measures of actual socialism (state share of GDP, ease of doing business, actual state policy) Nordics are capitalists.
Actual socialism has to do with economic democracy, not "ease of doing business". You seem to be defining socialism as things you don't like. I have clearly demonstrated that the Nordic countries are closer to socialism than most countries. That does not, however, mean that they aren't capitalist, as I have previously stated.
Donut section wrote:Aillyria wrote:Only if you don't know anything about economics, or intellectually dishonest, perhaps.
http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Market_Socialism
Knowledge can set you free.
Do you want me to link you the wiki for unicorns, because that's how you get linked the wiki for unicorns.
Conserative Morality wrote:If RWDT were Romans, who would they be?
......
Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist
West Oros wrote:GOD DAMMIT! I thought you wouldn't be here.
Well you aren't a real socialist. Just a sociopath disguised as one.
Not to mention that this thread split off from LWDT, so I assumed you would think this thread was a "revisionist hellhole".
by The Portland Territory » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:54 pm
Valgora wrote:The Portland Territory wrote:I fundamentally disagree with you in the sense that I believe everybody has the right to choose the best insurance or whatever plans for themselves.
Anyways, this poses a major problem. The more people the government has to take care of, the costlier the plan becomes. This will cause one of two things: One, the government goes into major debt or 2, taxes are increased so high that it’s not even worth it
Are you sure?
Because countries with universal healthcare spend less money for a greater benefit.
The US spends more money but most goes to administrative costs due to the healthcare system in the US.
by Collatis » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Taihei Tengoku wrote:Collatis wrote:Actual socialism has to do with economic democracy, not "ease of doing business". You seem to be defining socialism as things you don't like. I have clearly demonstrated that the Nordic countries are closer to socialism than most countries. That does not, however, mean that they aren't capitalist, as I have previously stated.
It's obviously the negation of the "ease of doing business"--the kinds of states rounding out the bottom are Venezuela, Cuba, and Zimbabwe.
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders
by Taihei Tengoku » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:55 pm
by Donut section » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:57 pm
Aillyria wrote:Collatis wrote:Actual socialism has to do with economic democracy, not "ease of doing business". You seem to be defining socialism as things you don't like. I have clearly demonstrated that the Nordic countries are closer to socialism than most countries. That does not, however, mean that they aren't capitalist, as I have previously stated.
I hate this notion that there's some sort of spectrum or sliding scale of socialism. It doesn't work like that, a systrm is either socialist or not, there's no middle ground.Donut section wrote:
Do you want me to link you the wiki for unicorns, because that's how you get linked the wiki for unicorns.
Don't dodge the topic, prove market economics and socialism are incompatible.
by Collatis » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:57 pm
Aillyria wrote:I hate this notion that there's some sort of spectrum or sliding scale of socialism. It doesn't work like that, a systrm is either socialist or not, there's no middle ground.
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders
by Taihei Tengoku » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:00 pm
Collatis wrote:Actually, the bottom country is Somalia. Somalia: socialist paradise?
Socialism is worker control of the means of production,
by Collatis » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:05 pm
Taihei Tengoku wrote:"Sweden isn't socialist"--Swedish economist
Collatis wrote:I'm not arguing that Scandinavia is socialist. It's not. I'm arguing that it is closer to socialism than the vast majority of the world.
The Portland Territory wrote:Do those nations have more than 300+ million people? Don't think so
PRO: social democracy, internationalism, progressivism, democracy,
republicanism, human rights, democratic socialism, Keynesianism,
EU, NATO, two-state solution, Democratic Party, Bernie Sanders
CON: conservatism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, neoliberalism,
death penalty, Marxism-Leninism, laissez faire, reaction, fascism,
antisemitism, isolationism, Republican Party, Donald Trump
Voting Through The Ages | Voter Guide | The Presidents | Voting Without Borders
by The Portland Territory » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:10 pm
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