Could the Nazis have Won ?!?

[LOLterra]

I have studied a lot of history, especially about the Nazis. Adolf Hitler, IMHO, was insane and a sociopath who had maxed out on Meth and couldn't have led his country to victory. Still..what if the Third Reich was taken over by someone else ? Or what would have happened if they prepared for war for a long time, say 20 years, and then busted out and waged war ? The German people were known as being very good with tools and machines. Do you think that if they kept from waging war immediately they would have won ? Say they waited for a 100 years, and then waged war ? Would that make any difference ?
So what do you think NS ? Could the Nazis have won the war if they took these measures ?

[Alaizia]

I have studied a lot of history, especially about the Nazis. Adolf Hitler, IMHO, was insane and a sociopath who had maxed out on Meth and couldn't have led his country to victory. Still..what if the Third Reich was taken over by someone else ? Or what would have happened if they prepared for war for a long time, say 20 years, and then busted out and waged war ? The German people were known as being very good with tools and machines. Do you think that if they kept from waging war immediately they would have won ? Say they waited for a 100 years, and then waged war ? Would that make any difference ?
So what do you think NS ? Could the Nazis have won the war if they took these measures ?

There has been another interesting archived thread previously created that dealt with the same question you are asking. You could search and find it.
The only I would say is that Hitler or no-Hitler, Germany (and the West in general) had to strike the USSR as soon as possible. Because in 20 years as you propose, and even sooner, the Soviets would have the military capabilities to roll over any European country all the way to France.

[Katganistan]

Of course, if they had done everything differently and had different leaders.

[Yagon]

Of course, if they had done everything differently and had different leaders.

Plus they could've changed the name. Maybe kept the boots and longcoats.

[Washington Resistance Army]

They did win, we're being controlled by mecha Hitler from his base at the center of the earth.

[Hirota]

This question appears to be a reframe of the commonly asked question in history - that is do individuals direct or are they directed? Do the "great people" of history - kings, queens, statesmen and generals - determine the course of things, or are they nothing more than a cog, or a product of the upheaval they represent?

[Hirota]

Of course, if they had done everything differently and had different leaders.

Plus they could've changed the name. Maybe kept the boots and longcoats.

Get rid of the skulls on their caps.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Of course, if they had done everything differently and had different leaders.

^

Plus they could've changed the name. Maybe kept the boots and longcoats.

Get rid of the skulls on their caps.

That clip is hilarious and never gets old.

[Katganistan]

They did win, we're being controlled by mecha Hitler from his base at the center of the earth.

Not if BJ Blazkowitz has anything to say about it.

[The Huskar Social Union]

They did win, we're being controlled by mecha Hitler from his base at the center of the earth.

Not if BJ Blazkowitz has anything to say about it.

But how many self reflective inner monologues will he have?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Not if BJ Blazkowitz has anything to say about it.

But how many self reflective inner monologues will he have?

Too god damn many, I just wanna shoot things >_>

[Genivaria]

But how many self reflective inner monologues will he have?

Too god damn many, I just wanna shoot things >_>

Inner Hitler Voice: "That's the spirit lad!"

[Senkaku]

Of course, if they had done everything differently and had different leaders.

Pretty much lol

[Kenmoria]

I have studied a lot of history, especially about the Nazis. Adolf Hitler, IMHO, was insane and a sociopath who had maxed out on Meth and couldn't have led his country to victory. Still..what if the Third Reich was taken over by someone else ? Or what would have happened if they prepared for war for a long time, say 20 years, and then busted out and waged war ? The German people were known as being very good with tools and machines. Do you think that if they kept from waging war immediately they would have won ? Say they waited for a 100 years, and then waged war ? Would that make any difference ?
So what do you think NS ? Could the Nazis have won the war if they took these measures ?

Yes. But that doesn't matter because, they didn't win WWII and the world is a almost definitely a better place for it.

[Thermodolia]

They did win, we're being controlled by mecha Hitler from his base at the center of the earth.

No it's zombie lizard Hitler. Get with it dude

[Katganistan]

But how many self reflective inner monologues will he have?

Too god damn many, I just wanna shoot things >_>

Gotta say, once it goes on sale I'm interested in the new game.
So many fond memories of Wolfenstein 3D And DOOM.

[Methodological Individualism]

... Wolfenstein 3D ...

I am death incarnate.

[Ifreann]

Not if BJ Blazkowitz has anything to say about it.

But how many self reflective inner monologues will he have?

All of them.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

Well, they were pretty close to winning on several occasions as it were.

In principle, their biggest blunders were redirecting their airpower towards civilian infrastructure rather than factories during the Blitz, failing to take Malta before hitting North Africa, not taking precautions to prepare for Russian winter in 1941 just in case they failed to hit Moscow before autumn, and, obviously, insisting on taking Stalingrad rather than just bombing the place to rubble and sending their forces to take the oil fields of Caucasus instead. Lastly, Hitler and his henchmen made the mistake of letting ideology prevail over pragmatic concerns until fairly late in the war - had he impressed the occupied peoples of Eastern Europe with promises of autonomy within the Reich early on, he would likely have enlisted millions of extra men more than eager to take revenge on the hated Communists to his cause.

The Brits admitted after the war that they were at one point months away from surrender, had Germans just pressed on with bombing their industries. Had that happened, they would not have been able to build up an effective air force, and in combination with the U-boat campaign, that would have starved Britain into submission soon enough. Furthermore, in the long run, Germans would have preserved a lot more of their initial air power.

Taking Malta would have secured German supply lines across the Mediterranean, and it wouldn't have been too hard of a job early in the war either - a step that was indeed advocated by Kesselring. Hitler, however, chose to go with the more audacious plan of Rommel, which in the end bit the latter in the ass as his supply lines were constantly bombed and harassed by the Brits stationed in Malta. In the long run, it would quite possibly have allowed Rommel to capture Suez, forcing British supply convoys to and from India and the Middle East to take a 6000-mile detour around Africa, every extra mile of the trip meaning more exposure to U-boats, and open up a route into the Middle East with its oil fields, German invasion likely being supported by native Arab uprisings.

In recently declassified Soviet documents, Zhukov would admit in a closed meeting that the Germans could actually have taken Moscow, had they just pressed on with their assault. It was only for a lack of suitable winter equipment that this did not materialize. A good stock of winter clothing and 10 extra centimeters of width for tank tracks would possibly have made all the difference.

And as for Stalingrad, it's pretty self-evident that getting bogged down into months of urban warfare after the city has already been reduced to ruin of no industrial significance is a bad idea. The divisions directed towards Stalingrad could have meant all the difference in the South, allowing for the capture of the Russian oil fields and permanently solving the German fuel shortages.

Enlisting the Eastern European populace would likewise have been easy, had the racial doctrines and policies been modified to suit pragmatic needs accordingly. When the Nazis entered occupied Eastern Europe in 1941, they were almost universally greeted as liberators. Had they picked up on these sentiments from the very beginning, they could have turned the entirety of the Baltics and Ukraine against their former oppressors.

All this combined would have meant that Britain would be knocked out of war in 1942 in the latest, Soviets would likely be pushed back behind the Urals, and Germany would have had a free hand in turning their efforts against USA, their industries remaining unmolested and beyond reach of the US air power.

---

For the people of Eastern Europe, it would obviously have made little difference. Regardless of which totalitarian power prevailed, they would stand to lose.

[Yagon]

In recently declassified Soviet documents, Zhukov would admit in a closed meeting that the Germans could actually have taken Moscow, had they just pressed on with their assault. It was only for a lack of suitable winter equipment that this did not materialize. A good stock of winter clothing and 10 extra centimeters of width for tank tracks would possibly have made all the difference.

"Sir, its really cold there, we should bring-"

"Oh, fuck cold, its fine. We're German. You're going to tell me shit about cold? Grow some balls."

"No, but really, the winters there-"

"German! We're German! We can go in shorts and flip-flops, we'll be fine!"

"

[Kennlind]

If they never invaded the USSR, yes.

[The Serbian Empire]

If they never invaded the USSR, yes.

Or if they only targeted the USSR instead of both the USA (by sinking merchant ships)/UK/France (Allies) and the USSR.

[Internationalist Bastard]

You'd have to change a lot of factors

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

He could have, but then he fucked with mother Russia.

[Guelder]

Yes they could have won, but they decided to invade the USSR and attack the USA and UK. And i am happy the nazi's lost otherwise NationStates wouldn't exist and there would be concentration camps everywhere and no freedom