NationStates

Posted: **Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:51 pm**

We need to throw more money at our psychiatric hospitals; as a whole, our nation does not have nearly as many psychiatric hospitals as required. For example, in Fresno County, we only have about 1/3rd of the psychiatric beds we need. While "throw more money at it" is often too simplistic of a solution, I believe this is one instance where throwing money at an issue would make a significant difference. With enough psychiatric beds, we could end the horror of boarding patients in emergency rooms for hours, or transporting patients across the state for treatment (a friend of mine had to travel from Fresno to San Francisco because there were no adolescent beds anywhere closer). This would save patients and the government money, and promote successful reentry into the community. It is also worth mentioning that the population of psychiatric hospitals tends to be biased towards the homeless and low-income, which means that many people who are transported across the state to receive treatment may not have the resources they need to re-enter the community after their treatment.

Why haven't we done this already? One reason I'm aware of is that mental health stigma makes it difficult to build new psychiatric hospitals. For instance, in Fresno County (again), the construction of a much-needed behavioral health facility was protested on the grounds that it would damage property values and endanger the surrounding community. This is, of course, just ignorant stereotypes about the kind of people that enter a psychiatric hospital. If we did not so frequently represent the mentally ill as violent and unstable, I expect there would be far less public opposition to the construction of these essential facilities.

We also need to address chronic understaffing throughout the inpatient psychiatric system. We do not have nearly enough psychiatrists as we need to treat the mentally ill. The average psychiatrist is much older than most other medical fields, and psychiatry is one of the least popular medical fields for med students (for many reasons, ranging from wanting to work on something that doesn't integrate the social sciences so much, to the perception that psychiatry isn't as prestigious as other fields in medicine). The nurse-practicioner model (advanced practice registered nurses who can perform many of the duties of doctors) will increasingly address this problem, yet it still remains.

With more hospitals, and more staff, we will provide better treatment, and save more money in the long-term as a result. Having a shitty psychiatric hospital just turns your hospital into a revolving door and increases costs later.

Posted: **Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:38 pm**

USS Monitor wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
I didn't say that you said it was guns; I know that this is NSG, so if I didn't say something like "it's not just guns" - this topic would've been hijacked into a gun control debate by now. I get that a ship loves her guns. More importantly, a red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue; the reason that the Mental Healthcare Debate cannot be a red herring, at least in this case, is because it is an important issue, and by mentioning it - they are drawing attention to it.

Interestingly enough, I think that America's Mental Healthcare Crisis is affecting the NRA's ability to fight for gun laws, so they either have to present Mental Healthcare as a major issue, or slowly lose their ability to defend the Second Amendment. Thus far the NRA has just been giving it lip service, but one day they'll face a choice: Lobbyists or the Constitution. And when that day comes, I'll have my popcorn ready!

They are only talking about it to distract from the debate about guns. It has nothing to do with any desire for a meaningful discussion on mental health.

That's true. However, the reason that I don't think it's a red herring, is because by being blissfully ignorant, they are driving the debate to a crucially important issue, even if their intent is the opposite. If you criticized their intent, rather than the issue, I would've agreed with you.

Posted: **Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:41 pm**

We need to fund comprehensive screening and treatment. And we need to stop making "mental health" just a footnote on the gun violence issue.

Posted: **Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:17 pm**

Shofercia wrote:If you criticized their intent, rather than the issue, I would've agreed with you.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Posted: **Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:55 pm**

Telconi wrote:We need to fund comprehensive screening and treatment. And we need to stop making "mental health" just a footnote on the gun violence issue.

The problem there is that a person needs to want help before they can get better, otherwise it's all likely to just go wrong in the treatment phase.

I mean, you aren't wrong, but I think encouraging Americans that mental health is important and needing help isn't something to be ashamed of should come first.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:46 am**

Socialist Union Of Deutschland wrote:Mental illness rates are increasing for many reasons. One reason is because of abuse and immorality. People forced to be stuck around their immoral families due to economic reasons (family oriented capitalism) get mentally ill because of this. Wives forced to rely on their narcissistic husbands, people being forced to celebrate holidays with their abusive families, and annoying wives who talk a lot are some of the things that cause others to be mentally ill, caused by immorality.

I think you might be thinking people are a little more fragile than they truly are if you think talkative wives can literally make someone mentally ill. Abusive families sure, but not just someone being over talkative.

Saying this as someone who has had experience with a number of unpleasant family issues.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:45 am**

Herador wrote:
Telconi wrote:We need to fund comprehensive screening and treatment. And we need to stop making "mental health" just a footnote on the gun violence issue.

The problem there is that a person needs to want help before they can get better, otherwise it's all likely to just go wrong in the treatment phase.

I mean, you aren't wrong, but I think encouraging Americans that mental health is important and needing help isn't something to be ashamed of should come first.

I agree, and I think to an extent that goes hand in hand with the first issue. The fact that it took all of, one fucking reply for gun violence to get folded into the mental health thread is disheartening. The vast majority of people who utilize mental health services are not psycho spree murderers. And the more we associate the mental health system with psycho spree murderers the more we alienate folks.

I juse feel like neither party gives the mental healthough situation in this country enough attention. It's tacked on to gun violence stories, and thrown into health care talks occasionally, but nobody actually directly addresses it.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:42 am**

We need to do more to openly confront the causes of mental health problems, and this applies globally, not just in the US or the UK.

Just ask me what it is like to have serious mental health problems right now, while on the verge of giving up, and while my NHS district stubbornly drags its feet to find me long-term support.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:24 pm**

USS Monitor wrote:
Shofercia wrote:If you criticized their intent, rather than the issue, I would've agreed with you.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Originally, I thought you criticized the issue of Mental Healthcare as a red herring. It's not, because it's a crucially important issue to be discussed when it comes to mass shootings, irrespective of how it's brought up. However, after reading your following posts, I see that you're saying that the intent of Republicans is to bring up the issue as a red herring. That's true, at least for most Republican Congresspeople. Do you see where I'm going with this? Even though their intent might be to distract form the gun laws debate, their actions bring up an issue that we all need to discuss; they're doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:28 pm**

Shofercia wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
I don't understand what you mean by this.

Originally, I thought you criticized the issue of Mental Healthcare as a red herring. It's not, because it's a crucially important issue to be discussed when it comes to mass shootings, irrespective of how it's brought up. However, after reading your following posts, I see that you're saying that the intent of Republicans is to bring up the issue as a red herring. That's true, at least for most Republican Congresspeople. Do you see where I'm going with this? Even though their intent might be to distract form the gun laws debate, their actions bring up an issue that we all need to discuss; they're doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

That clears it up some, but in practice, it's not just the intent that is unhelpful. It's also the results, because the way they bring it up does not lead to any productive discussion or action.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:58 pm**

USS Monitor wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Originally, I thought you criticized the issue of Mental Healthcare as a red herring. It's not, because it's a crucially important issue to be discussed when it comes to mass shootings, irrespective of how it's brought up. However, after reading your following posts, I see that you're saying that the intent of Republicans is to bring up the issue as a red herring. That's true, at least for most Republican Congresspeople. Do you see where I'm going with this? Even though their intent might be to distract form the gun laws debate, their actions bring up an issue that we all need to discuss; they're doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

That clears it up some, but in practice, it's not just the intent that is unhelpful. It's also the results, because the way they bring it up does not lead to any productive discussion or action.

Now that's just being unfair! The Republicans are doing plenty regarding mental health access. Can't you see how much they care about taking away affordable access so that people like Donald Zilkha can get to keep more of his well earned money? I see what you're up to, Monitor...sneaky you.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:21 pm**

I'm convinced that the most pressing issue for mental health is still economic aid. Even if there were universal healthcare, most people with severe mental illnesses would have little or no source of income, and virtually no way to remain in school because school interferes with treatment.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:19 pm**

I don't see where anyone's mentioned it, but suicide is actually a very gendered problem.

Handy dandy chart:

Men have consistently committed suicide at 3-4 times the rate of women for as long as we have tracked the data.

One of the attempts made to deflect from this epidemic of suicide among men have been to argue that women attempt suicide more often. This is done to minimize the actual gendered nature of the problem and continue to prevent men as a gender from receiving any help, and is merely a sexist attempt to disregard the needs of a group that is viewed as unworthy of help or assistance.

Now, why do men commit suicide more often?

Well, there's lots of theories. We know that homelessness rates are much higher among men, crime victimization is much higher among men, etc, but that may not be the whole story. Some have asserted that men just use more violent methods and therefore die more often. The question then becomes: why?

Well, it's not uncommon that a suicide attempt isn't an actual attempt to die, but an attempt to get someone to listen. It's an attempt to get help. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take it seriously - after all, if you go to such lengths as to risk death to get help, you're probably pretty desperate - but a man who puts a .45 in his mouth and pulls the trigger is not crying for help. He's not risking death for help. It's my assertion that he knows there's no help coming, no one listening, and no one cares. Men using more deadly means is a symptom of the real problem, rather than an explanation in of itself.

You combine this with the fact that men are under greater social pressure to perform than women are, and any attempt to address their problems is met with mockery and ridicule, and it's a pressure cooker. For men, asking for help forfeits any right to it. That's what society tells men. It's no wonder men are killing themselves at 3-4 times the rate of women with this being the case.

It doesn't have to be this way. If we are going to address the suicide problem, and we absolutely should, we need to start with helping the people who are overwhelmingly committing suicide. It needs to start with not demonizing them out of reflexive reaction.

And I have a little bit of personal experience with this. When I was younger, I thought I would try therapy after I came to the realization that there was something wrong with being drugged and raped by a woman (I had not yet, at that time, coalesced that it was rape, just "something wrong"). I was told by the therapist that until I took responsibility for my bad decisions, I would never get past it. I was told by a second one that the something wrong was that I apparently didn't have much respect for women that I could think that a woman doing me a favor was somehow in the wrong.

I didn't seek a third.

I might have committed suicide at that time if not for other developments independent of it. You want to cut down on the suicide epidemic?

Stop demonizing men and start helping them.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:31 pm**

Galloism wrote:I don't see where anyone's mentioned it, but suicide is actually a very gendered problem.

Handy dandy chart:

(Image)

Men have consistently committed suicide at 3-4 times the rate of women for as long as we have tracked the data.

One of the attempts made to deflect from this epidemic of suicide among men have been to argue that women attempt suicide more often. This is done to minimize the actual gendered nature of the problem and continue to prevent men as a gender from receiving any help, and is merely a sexist attempt to disregard the needs of a group that is viewed as unworthy of help or assistance.

Now, why do men commit suicide more often?

Well, there's lots of theories. We know that homelessness rates are much higher among men, crime victimization is much higher among men, etc, but that may not be the whole story. Some have asserted that men just use more violent methods and therefore die more often. The question then becomes: why?

Well, it's not uncommon that a suicide attempt isn't an actual attempt to die, but an attempt to get someone to listen. It's an attempt to get help. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take it seriously - after all, if you go to such lengths as to risk death to get help, you're probably pretty desperate - but a man who puts a .45 in his mouth and pulls the trigger is not crying for help. He's not risking death for help. It's my assertion that he knows there's no help coming, no one listening, and no one cares. Men using more deadly means is a symptom of the real problem, rather than an explanation in of itself.

You combine this with the fact that men are under greater social pressure to perform than women are, and any attempt to address their problems is met with mockery and ridicule, and it's a pressure cooker. For men, asking for help forfeits any right to it. That's what society tells men. It's no wonder men are killing themselves at 3-4 times the rate of women with this being the case.

It doesn't have to be this way. If we are going to address the suicide problem, and we absolutely should, we need to start with helping the people who are overwhelmingly committing suicide. It needs to start with not demonizing them out of reflexive reaction.

And I have a little bit of personal experience with this. When I was younger, I thought I would try therapy after I came to the realization that there was something wrong with being drugged and raped by a woman (I had not yet, at that time, coalesced that it was rape, just "something wrong"). I was told by the therapist that until I took responsibility for my bad decisions, I would never get past it. I was told by a second one that the something wrong was that I apparently didn't have much respect for women that I could think that a woman doing me a favor was somehow in the wrong.

I didn't seek a third.

I might have committed suicide at that time if not for other developments independent of it. You want to cut down on the suicide epidemic?

Stop demonizing men and start helping them.

It's also true that many stigmatized mental health conditions are more common in men than women.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:06 am**

I remember at a certain point in my life being depressed. I was just always so, so tired. It's the tiredness that used to get me. Everything was simply exhausting. Existing was exhausting, and then i would feel guilty because i was unproductive, and because some people out there had it worse than i did, and that nothing was really wrong with me, i just felt empty inside. Suicidal thoughts began and I don't know where i would have been if it wasn't for my Brother. He convinced me to get help before it was too late. I did. 7 Years later- i have a small family and couldn't be happier with my life. Unfortunately it isn't always a happy ending for everyone.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:46 am**

I know you specify politicians, but it does seem that people haven't stopped talking about how no-one's talking about mental health.

Posted: **Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:10 pm**

My psychotic symptoms are back. I was told by my psychiatrist when I was put on my meds to watch out for them coming back, because it could mean my symptoms were early stages of schizophrenia, and not the schizotypal personality disorder they thought it was. I've been having paranoid delusions and minor hallucinations again for about a week, to the point that I'm afraid to go to sleep, because I'm worried something will sneak up on me while I am. When I'm at the summer house, I'm living alone, so I've started carrying a kitchen knife with me, and I've been sleeping with it as well. I'm terrified that the girl from The Ring will come out of the television while I'm not watching, and sometimes when I'm upstairs, I can hear watery footsteps from downstairs.

NationStates

Mental health: a problem no one has talked about.