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Legal Definitions of Rape that Exclude Male Victims

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Should a woman forcing a man to penetrate her sexually be considered rape?

Yes
101
93%
No
8
7%
 
Total votes : 109

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Chestaan
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Legal Definitions of Rape that Exclude Male Victims

Postby Chestaan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:16 am

Seeing as how it's International Men's Day I want to bring to light an issue of extreme injustice. Namely, the fact that in many countries, such as Ireland and I believe Britain also, that legally speaking, if a woman forces a man to have sex with her that it is not considered to be rape.

Now obviously the main direct problem for this is that female perpetrators receive lower sentences than men for committing the same crime (a state of affairs not unique to rape in these countries but true across the board for most crimes, but that's a discussion for a different thread) but in a broader sense it is a bigger problem for society as it enforces toxic archaic gender roles and it minimises and lessens the suffering of male victims. It is already the case that male victims of any form of sexual abuse are derided by society and sneered at. We have often heard of cases where men, sometimes minors, have been raped or abused by a woman only to be "congratulated" by others. This state of affairs is frankly disgusting, but to have it validated by the state, lessening the suffering of these victims, is beyond appalling.

Don't be fooled into believing that this is purely an issue of criminal justice. As others have often pointed out, especially Gallo, the collection of rape statistics by the CDC has always ignored male victims. This is partially to do with the fact that sexist bigots such as Mary Koss have been employed to advise on how rape should be defined. One particular paper by Koss serves to illustrate this fact, Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. From page 206 of this paper:

Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.


Now I still have some small faith in the intellectual and moral integrity of NSG that I believe that the vast majority of posters here would agree with me that such an opinion is abhorrent, but I am sure that some will leap to her defence.

So, the question I put to you NSG is should men who are forced to penetrate a woman be considered a victim of rape? Or maybe you believe that such an occurrence is so incredibly rare that it doesn't matter?

If you do agree that male rape victims are treated abhorrently, what is the best way to deal with this? How do we ensure that male victims are treated like victims should be treated? How do we fight against the horrific minimisation of male victims of sexual assault?

And lastly, Happy International Men's Day to all of you. This is but one of many issues that men face that must be tackled. I would love to discuss domestic violence, suicide and the sentencing gap, but I decided that this topic is a good first step to make a stand and to create debate, as it is the hardest to be ignored by any sensible moral person. There's a long way to go and many times I am disheartened by the way these issues are treated by society at large, but I think that in the end we will win out.

EDIT: As most people have been focusing solely on one part of this thread I have decided to explicitly add some extra questions to promote discussion:

1. In those countries in which rape of a man is not defined as rape, what is the best way to change the law?

2. Should the rape of a man and woman be treated differently legally? For example should those who rape a woman be given worse sentences?

3. The CDC defines rape in such a way to exclude male victims, should this be changed to be more inclusive and what are the wider implications of this CDC policy?

4. Do you agree with Mary Koss's statement above? If not how should such beliefs be viewed by society? Is she a sexist/misandrist bigot? Or do you believe, like her, that forcing men into sex is of lower significance than forcing women into sex?

5. Is there a problem with how male victims of sexual assault and rape are viewed by society? If so, how can this be changed?
Last edited by Chestaan on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft
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Postby Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:29 am

If anyone, whatever gender, forces someone, also whatever gender, to have sex with them, it's rape. Just scrap the gender labels for a second.

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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:30 am

Silly question. Yes.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:35 am

Yes women can rape men. Next question
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Postby Vyzhva » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:36 am

Of course they can.
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Postby Chestaan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:39 am

The Black Forrest wrote:Silly question. Yes.


I only wish it were a silly question. But when the law of certain countries defines rape in such a way to exclude male victims then it is necessary to ask such a question.
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Postby Chestaan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:41 am

Thermodolia wrote:Yes women can rape men. Next question


Next question is how do we go about changing the law in countries where it is not legally possible for men to be raped by a woman. The question after that is how do we change society's view of male victims of sexual assault?
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:41 am

Yes
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Postby Dejanic » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:42 am

Yes.

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Postby Sulania » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:44 am

Now, I was told there's no such thing as stupid questions. Yes, silly question, yes.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:45 am

Chestaan wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Yes women can rape men. Next question


Next question is how do we go about changing the law in countries where it is not legally possible for men to be raped by a woman. The question after that is how do we change society's view of male victims of sexual assault?

Unfortunately those are questions I don't know the answer to
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:59 am

Chestaan wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Yes women can rape men. Next question


Next question is how do we go about changing the law in countries where it is not legally possible for men to be raped by a woman. The question after that is how do we change society's view of male victims of sexual assault?

Pretty simple, just bring it to their attention.
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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:07 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Chestaan wrote:
Next question is how do we go about changing the law in countries where it is not legally possible for men to be raped by a woman. The question after that is how do we change society's view of male victims of sexual assault?

Pretty simple, just bring it to their attention.


Changing a law is far from simple, but I do agree that raising awareness of the issue is a good first step.
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Postby Kibbutz Unions » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:12 am

The answer is a simple "yes". It is awfully difficult for me to fathom that some deny that simple fact.
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Postby Chestaan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:40 am

Kibbutz Unions wrote:The answer is a simple "yes". It is awfully difficult for me to fathom that some deny that simple fact.


I agree, it is abhorrent. Unfortunately the legal system of several countries, the CDC as well as those who subscribe to Mary Koss's brand of radical feminism believe that men cannot be victims of rape.
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:48 am

Chestaan wrote:Seeing as how it's International Men's Day I want to bring to light an issue of extreme injustice. Namely, the fact that in many countries, such as Ireland and I believe Britain also, that legally speaking, if a woman forces a man to have sex with her that it is not considered to be rape.

What is it considered?
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Postby Vassenor » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:50 am

Yes.

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Postby Chestaan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:51 am

Ifreann wrote:
Chestaan wrote:Seeing as how it's International Men's Day I want to bring to light an issue of extreme injustice. Namely, the fact that in many countries, such as Ireland and I believe Britain also, that legally speaking, if a woman forces a man to have sex with her that it is not considered to be rape.

What is it considered?


Sexual assault, as far as I know. The definition of rape is in the following link:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990 ... /html#sec4
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Postby San Lumen » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:52 am

Yes male rape does exist. Why is this a question?

Its a subject many don't want to talk about and the victims are often treated horrible. I only saw it talked about once in a science fiction show.
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:54 am

Vassenor wrote:Yes.

[/thread]


Apparently I have to edit the title, because people seem to be ignoring the rest of my questions.
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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:01 am

San Lumen wrote:Yes male rape does exist. Why is this a question?

Its a subject many don't want to talk about and the victims are often treated horrible. I only saw it talked about once in a science fiction show.


Its a question because several legal systems deny that it exists or denies that it is the same as a man raping a woman.
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Postby Kibbutz Unions » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:02 am

Chestaan wrote:
Kibbutz Unions wrote:The answer is a simple "yes". It is awfully difficult for me to fathom that some deny that simple fact.


I agree, it is abhorrent. Unfortunately the legal system of several countries, the CDC as well as those who subscribe to Mary Koss's brand of radical feminism believe that men cannot be victims of rape.

Honestly, I have never liked the radical branch of Feminism (And Pop Feminism), and I agree that it does indeed sound like something they'd advocate.
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Postby Yagon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:05 am

I think men can be raped by women, and the one's who experience that are pained by it just as much.

I've only read a little Mary Koss but I don't like her view on male rape, I think it lacks empathy for those who suffer.

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Postby Anarchitaria » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:07 am

That one vote for "no".

We had a good ratio going.
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Postby Chestaan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:10 am

Kibbutz Unions wrote:
Chestaan wrote:
I agree, it is abhorrent. Unfortunately the legal system of several countries, the CDC as well as those who subscribe to Mary Koss's brand of radical feminism believe that men cannot be victims of rape.

Honestly, I have never liked the radical branch of Feminism (And Pop Feminism), and I agree that it does indeed sound like something they'd advocate.


I think most feminists and non-feminists hold that opinion. Just to be clear here to everyone I am not attacking feminism as a whole here, but those who deny that male victims of rape exist.
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