NATION

PASSWORD

Would you compromise your ideology for survival?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Remove ads

Would you compromise your ideology to join a tribe if doing so gave you the best chance of survival?

No, I would survive some other way or if necessary, or if necessary, die with my integrity.
38
21%
Yes, but only if my survival depended on it (meaning other means were unworkable for some reason)
33
18%
No, every society needs dissenters, and if that reduces my personal survival chances, so be it.
14
8%
Yes, but I'd be like a sleeper agent for the opposition, waiting for my chance to operate against the local tribe from the inside.
34
19%
Yes, survival is my ideology.
16
9%
No, it wouldn't be worth surviving with people I find ideologically poopy.
6
3%
Yes, and I would rise in power via my effectiveness and work to change the tribe.
28
15%
No, I would take on their whole tribe for my ideology, I don't care what the chances are.
14
8%
 
Total votes : 183

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Minister
 
Posts: 2893
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:07 pm

I am pleased to see that most people selected, No, I would survive some other way or if necessary, or if necessary, die with my integrity. Sacrificing one's integrity is itself a negation of life.

User avatar
Bakery Hill
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11182
Founded: Jul 03, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:17 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:I am pleased to see that most people selected, No, I would survive some other way or if necessary, or if necessary, die with my integrity. Sacrificing one's integrity is itself a negation of life.

Yes, but life is also compromise, especially if you have a purpose you wish to fulfill.

User avatar
Pope Joan
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18890
Founded: Mar 11, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pope Joan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:27 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:

Could have; that celibacy vow has done a lot of harm, so good for him if he did

A lot of harm among monks?


Yes, alcoholism, obesity, and even pedophilia; these could be reduced if celibacy (not mandated by the Bible; an invention of the early Middle Ages) were eliminated

One monsignor I know, like and respect struggles greatly with alcohol and obesity.

A priest I knew and worked with who was excellent with community work and great with teens drank himself to death in his forties. He was in my home town; my best friend was youth advisor in his church at the time
Last edited by Pope Joan on Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is difficult".

-M. Scott Peck

User avatar
Pope Joan
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18890
Founded: Mar 11, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pope Joan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:28 pm

Purpelia wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:A lot of harm among monks?

For them and rest of the world. A lot of the insane prudishness associated with Christianity and its derived cultures can be directly traced to the facts religious workers were not allowed to marry. This is especially true in the catholic tradition that bars even priests from having sex. It's a practice that directly lead to the glorification of celibacy and general hatred of sexuality that you see in many religious communities in the west to this day.


It is comical that priests persist in giving marital advice.
"Life is difficult".

-M. Scott Peck

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:30 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:A lot of harm among monks?


Yes, alcoholism, obesity, and even pedophilia; these could be reduced if celibacy (not mandated by the Bible; an invention of the early Middle Ages) were eliminated

Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Monasticism did not start in the early middle ages, either, it started in the fourth century a bit before Christianity was legalized.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Pope Joan
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18890
Founded: Mar 11, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pope Joan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:33 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
Yes, alcoholism, obesity, and even pedophilia; these could be reduced if celibacy (not mandated by the Bible; an invention of the early Middle Ages) were eliminated

Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


What about the wedding in Cana? Shouldn't the Lord have prohibited them from this vile exercise?
"Life is difficult".

-M. Scott Peck

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:37 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


What about the wedding in Cana? Shouldn't the Lord have prohibited them from this vile exercise?

No, stop strawmanning Christ.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Bakery Hill
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11182
Founded: Jul 03, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:38 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
What about the wedding in Cana? Shouldn't the Lord have prohibited them from this vile exercise?

No, stop strawmanning Christ.

This is a quote that should be remembered.

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:38 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
Purpelia wrote:For them and rest of the world. A lot of the insane prudishness associated with Christianity and its derived cultures can be directly traced to the facts religious workers were not allowed to marry. This is especially true in the catholic tradition that bars even priests from having sex. It's a practice that directly lead to the glorification of celibacy and general hatred of sexuality that you see in many religious communities in the west to this day.


It is comical that priests persist in giving marital advice.

Like John Chrysostom?
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Cetacea
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5434
Founded: Apr 27, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Cetacea » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:25 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
Yes, alcoholism, obesity, and even pedophilia; these could be reduced if celibacy (not mandated by the Bible; an invention of the early Middle Ages) were eliminated

Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


Jesus did not endorse celibacy, what He encouraged was that people should either live committed in a marriage relationship or live singly. He was against couples living together without being married but marriage was encouraged

User avatar
Corpus Magnus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 536
Founded: Aug 01, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Corpus Magnus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:50 pm

Cetacea wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


Jesus did not endorse celibacy, what He encouraged was that people should either live committed in a marriage relationship or live singly. He was against couples living together without being married but marriage was encouraged

I agree.
Corpus Magnus: A militaristic and economically stagnant land of cynical, sarcastic people severely divided by race, social class, and language, oppressed and barely held together by eight bickering, incompetent but ambitious politicians and warriors who supposedly profess loyalty to an all-powerful but rarely present dictator. All hail the Omniscient! Praise to Corpus Magnus!
A 21.6 civilization, according to this index.

OOC: Proud member of the LDS (Mormon) Church.
Also known as Republica Conquistadora.

User avatar
Corpus Magnus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 536
Founded: Aug 01, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Corpus Magnus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:52 pm

There is no way I would compromise my own ideology for the sake of survival. Survival is not worth the eternal consequences after death. You are going to die at some point in your life; better for it to happen while you are in the action of defending your faiths rather than living in a way that you morally disagree with.
Corpus Magnus: A militaristic and economically stagnant land of cynical, sarcastic people severely divided by race, social class, and language, oppressed and barely held together by eight bickering, incompetent but ambitious politicians and warriors who supposedly profess loyalty to an all-powerful but rarely present dictator. All hail the Omniscient! Praise to Corpus Magnus!
A 21.6 civilization, according to this index.

OOC: Proud member of the LDS (Mormon) Church.
Also known as Republica Conquistadora.

User avatar
UniversalCommons
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1787
Founded: Jan 24, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby UniversalCommons » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:04 pm

Ideology is usually political or religious. If your job is to gather the nuts and berries and take out the trash, most people could care less. Stalin and Mao killed the politically active, not the average person. You could even say the average non-political person under Stalin got a basic education, a roof over their head, and food which was better than under the tsars. The majority of people live their lives in quiet desperation more worried about food, shelter, and sex than anything else. Being political is a choice. Unless this is a mad cult, if you keep your mouth shut or practice in secret most people will leave you alone. There were secret christians in Japan and secret jews in Spain. They had a hard time, but did not fully sacrifice their ideology. In fact, this is precisely why many secret societies formed.
Last edited by UniversalCommons on Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Luziyca
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33375
Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Luziyca » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:05 pm

Honestly, no. With humans being bastards, I'd much rather die with my integrity and ideological beliefs intact than sacrifice them completely.
|||The Christian Republic of of Luziyca|||
[22:00] <Lanos> nobody here in ESQ should be proud to be somehow remotely related to Luziyca
IIwikiNewsFacebookMy region: now 100% raider freeAbout meYouTubePolitical compass

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:10 pm

Cetacea wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


Jesus did not endorse celibacy, what He encouraged was that people should either live committed in a marriage relationship or live singly. He was against couples living together without being married but marriage was encouraged

He said anyone who can be celibate, ought to.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Albrenia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6978
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:27 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Cetacea wrote:
Jesus did not endorse celibacy, what He encouraged was that people should either live committed in a marriage relationship or live singly. He was against couples living together without being married but marriage was encouraged

He said anyone who can be celibate, ought to.


Jesus confirmed globalist population-control advocate? :p

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 88986
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:43 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


What about the wedding in Cana? Shouldn't the Lord have prohibited them from this vile exercise?


A nice jewish boy listens to his mother.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Minister
 
Posts: 2893
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:20 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:Yes, but life is also compromise, especially if you have a purpose you wish to fulfill.


Fortunately, I have never had to deal with that dilemma in real life.

User avatar
Omakhandia
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Jun 05, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Omakhandia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:36 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Yes, but life is also compromise, especially if you have a purpose you wish to fulfill.


Fortunately, I have never had to deal with that dilemma in real life.


I would argue that living in any society inherently involves compromise of some kind.
Don't copy+paste this into your signature. Come up with something original. Be an individual.

Pro: Capitalism, free speech, libertarianism, classical liberalism, secular humanism, gun rights, real feminism, religious freedom, choice, centrism, free trade.
Anti: Corruption, fascism, communism, vegans, far-left socialism, the alt-left and alt-right, religious fundamentalism, authoritarianism, collectivism.


In my spare time I admin for a movie discussion site. Drop by if you're interested!

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Minister
 
Posts: 2893
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:17 pm

Omakhandia wrote:I would argue that living in any society inherently involves compromise of some kind.


Of course. However, there is a difference between making compromises on nonessentials and making compromises on one's basic values.

User avatar
Oil exporting People
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6982
Founded: Jan 31, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Oil exporting People » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:35 pm

If it is just myself, no, my beliefs are worth dying for, if in memory of what was if nothing else. If I have to worry about my wife and children, that does change the calculus to be honest.
National Syndicalist
“The blood of the heroes is closer to God than the ink of the philosophers and the prayers of the faithful.” - Julius Evola
RIP Kram, Mods out here killing all of the good ones
RWDT has a new discord; TG me if interested.

User avatar
Omakhandia
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Jun 05, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Omakhandia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:04 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Omakhandia wrote:I would argue that living in any society inherently involves compromise of some kind.


Of course. However, there is a difference between making compromises on nonessentials and making compromises on one's basic values.


I mean, if you really believe in communist collectives, you're definitely compromising some core beliefs no matter where you're from.
Don't copy+paste this into your signature. Come up with something original. Be an individual.

Pro: Capitalism, free speech, libertarianism, classical liberalism, secular humanism, gun rights, real feminism, religious freedom, choice, centrism, free trade.
Anti: Corruption, fascism, communism, vegans, far-left socialism, the alt-left and alt-right, religious fundamentalism, authoritarianism, collectivism.


In my spare time I admin for a movie discussion site. Drop by if you're interested!

User avatar
Menassa
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33093
Founded: Aug 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Menassa » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:05 pm

There are things that I would rather die than do.

Idolatry.
Adultery
Murder
-NS's one and only Tanna!
Radical Monotheist
Their hollow inheritance.
This is my god and I shall exalt him
The NS Steam Thread
Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ
"A missionary uses the Bible like a drunk uses a lamppost, not so much for illumination, but for support"
"Imagine of a bunch of Zulu tribesmen told Congress how to read the Constitution, that's how it feels to a Jew when you tell us how to read our bible"
"God said: you must teach, as I taught, without a fee."
"Against your will you are formed, against your will you are born, against your will you live, against your will you die, and against your will you are destined to give a judgement and accounting before the king, king of all kings..."

User avatar
Pilarcraft
Senator
 
Posts: 3828
Founded: Dec 19, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pilarcraft » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:08 pm

Considering I'm already "lying to live another day" all day every day, Yeah. sure why not. I'd join them. survive, leave.
The Confederal Alliance of Pilarcraft ✺ That world will cease to be
Led by The Triumvirate.
OOC | Military | History |Language | Overview | Parties | Q&A | Factbooks
Proud Civic Persian Nationalist
B.P.D.: Dossier on parallel home-worlds released, will be updated regularly to include more encountered in the Convergence.

PreviousNext

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Arlenton, Ator Ter, Corrian, Democratic Communist Federation, Dylar, Estanglia, Finsternia, Firaxin, Grinning Dragon, Harmonian Hegemony, Holy Tedalonia, Lenzum, Maineiacs, New yugoslavaia, Shrillland, Souseiseki, Stuclica, Telconi, The Black Forrest, The Holy Therns, Thermodolia, Uxupox, Western Vale Confederacy, Yahoo [Bot], Zex

Remove ads