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Would you compromise your ideology for survival?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Would you compromise your ideology to join a tribe if doing so gave you the best chance of survival?

No, I would survive some other way or if necessary, or if necessary, die with my integrity.
38
21%
Yes, but only if my survival depended on it (meaning other means were unworkable for some reason)
33
18%
No, every society needs dissenters, and if that reduces my personal survival chances, so be it.
14
8%
Yes, but I'd be like a sleeper agent for the opposition, waiting for my chance to operate against the local tribe from the inside.
34
19%
Yes, survival is my ideology.
16
9%
No, it wouldn't be worth surviving with people I find ideologically poopy.
6
3%
Yes, and I would rise in power via my effectiveness and work to change the tribe.
28
15%
No, I would take on their whole tribe for my ideology, I don't care what the chances are.
14
8%
 
Total votes : 183

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:07 pm

I am pleased to see that most people selected, No, I would survive some other way or if necessary, or if necessary, die with my integrity. Sacrificing one's integrity is itself a negation of life.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ-Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), ṣạdiyq
Libertarian Marxist Communist Social Fiction, critical realism, Luxemburgism, Dialectical metaRealism
and The MarkFoster.NETwork. Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective ★⚑☭
A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر, remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal–⫯Ab°hāỳ, wa–yā ʿAliyy ʾal-⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (!يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Bakery Hill
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:17 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:I am pleased to see that most people selected, No, I would survive some other way or if necessary, or if necessary, die with my integrity. Sacrificing one's integrity is itself a negation of life.

Yes, but life is also compromise, especially if you have a purpose you wish to fulfill.
Proud Founder of the Committee for Proletarian Morality and Chads for Marxism


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Pope Joan
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pope Joan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:27 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:

Could have; that celibacy vow has done a lot of harm, so good for him if he did

A lot of harm among monks?


Yes, alcoholism, obesity, and even pedophilia; these could be reduced if celibacy (not mandated by the Bible; an invention of the early Middle Ages) were eliminated

One monsignor I know, like and respect struggles greatly with alcohol and obesity.

A priest I knew and worked with who was excellent with community work and great with teens drank himself to death in his forties. He was in my home town; my best friend was youth advisor in his church at the time
Last edited by Pope Joan on Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:28 pm

Purpelia wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:A lot of harm among monks?

For them and rest of the world. A lot of the insane prudishness associated with Christianity and its derived cultures can be directly traced to the facts religious workers were not allowed to marry. This is especially true in the catholic tradition that bars even priests from having sex. It's a practice that directly lead to the glorification of celibacy and general hatred of sexuality that you see in many religious communities in the west to this day.


It is comical that priests persist in giving marital advice.
"Life is difficult".

-M. Scott Peck

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The Parkus Empire
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:30 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:A lot of harm among monks?


Yes, alcoholism, obesity, and even pedophilia; these could be reduced if celibacy (not mandated by the Bible; an invention of the early Middle Ages) were eliminated

Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.

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The Parkus Empire
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Monasticism did not start in the early middle ages, either, it started in the fourth century a bit before Christianity was legalized.

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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:33 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
Yes, alcoholism, obesity, and even pedophilia; these could be reduced if celibacy (not mandated by the Bible; an invention of the early Middle Ages) were eliminated

Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


What about the wedding in Cana? Shouldn't the Lord have prohibited them from this vile exercise?
"Life is difficult".

-M. Scott Peck

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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:37 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


What about the wedding in Cana? Shouldn't the Lord have prohibited them from this vile exercise?

No, stop strawmanning Christ.

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Bakery Hill
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Founded: Jul 03, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:38 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
What about the wedding in Cana? Shouldn't the Lord have prohibited them from this vile exercise?

No, stop strawmanning Christ.

This is a quote that should be remembered.
Proud Founder of the Committee for Proletarian Morality and Chads for Marxism


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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:38 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
Purpelia wrote:For them and rest of the world. A lot of the insane prudishness associated with Christianity and its derived cultures can be directly traced to the facts religious workers were not allowed to marry. This is especially true in the catholic tradition that bars even priests from having sex. It's a practice that directly lead to the glorification of celibacy and general hatred of sexuality that you see in many religious communities in the west to this day.


It is comical that priests persist in giving marital advice.

Like John Chrysostom?

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Cetacea
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Posts: 5341
Founded: Apr 27, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Cetacea » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:25 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
Yes, alcoholism, obesity, and even pedophilia; these could be reduced if celibacy (not mandated by the Bible; an invention of the early Middle Ages) were eliminated

Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


Jesus did not endorse celibacy, what He encouraged was that people should either live committed in a marriage relationship or live singly. He was against couples living together without being married but marriage was encouraged

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Corpus Magnus
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Founded: Aug 01, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Corpus Magnus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:50 pm

Cetacea wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


Jesus did not endorse celibacy, what He encouraged was that people should either live committed in a marriage relationship or live singly. He was against couples living together without being married but marriage was encouraged

I agree.
Corpus Magnus: A militaristic and economically stagnant land of cynical, sarcastic people severely divided by race, social class, and language, oppressed and barely held together by eight bickering, incompetent but ambitious politicians and warriors who supposedly profess loyalty to an all-powerful but rarely present dictator. All hail the Omniscient! Praise to Corpus Magnus!
A 21.6 civilization, according to this index.

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Corpus Magnus
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Corpus Magnus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:52 pm

There is no way I would compromise my own ideology for the sake of survival. Survival is not worth the eternal consequences after death. You are going to die at some point in your life; better for it to happen while you are in the action of defending your faiths rather than living in a way that you morally disagree with.
Corpus Magnus: A militaristic and economically stagnant land of cynical, sarcastic people severely divided by race, social class, and language, oppressed and barely held together by eight bickering, incompetent but ambitious politicians and warriors who supposedly profess loyalty to an all-powerful but rarely present dictator. All hail the Omniscient! Praise to Corpus Magnus!
A 21.6 civilization, according to this index.

OOC: Proud member of the LDS (Mormon) Church.
Also known as Republica Conquistadora.

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UniversalCommons
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Founded: Jan 24, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby UniversalCommons » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:04 pm

Ideology is usually political or religious. If your job is to gather the nuts and berries and take out the trash, most people could care less. Stalin and Mao killed the politically active, not the average person. You could even say the average non-political person under Stalin got a basic education, a roof over their head, and food which was better than under the tsars. The majority of people live their lives in quiet desperation more worried about food, shelter, and sex than anything else. Being political is a choice. Unless this is a mad cult, if you keep your mouth shut or practice in secret most people will leave you alone. There were secret christians in Japan and secret jews in Spain. They had a hard time, but did not fully sacrifice their ideology. In fact, this is precisely why many secret societies formed.
Last edited by UniversalCommons on Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Luziyca
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Anarchy

Postby Luziyca » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:05 pm

Honestly, no. With humans being bastards, I'd much rather die with my integrity and ideological beliefs intact than sacrifice them completely.
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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:10 pm

Cetacea wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


Jesus did not endorse celibacy, what He encouraged was that people should either live committed in a marriage relationship or live singly. He was against couples living together without being married but marriage was encouraged

He said anyone who can be celibate, ought to.

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Albrenia
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Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:27 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Cetacea wrote:
Jesus did not endorse celibacy, what He encouraged was that people should either live committed in a marriage relationship or live singly. He was against couples living together without being married but marriage was encouraged

He said anyone who can be celibate, ought to.


Jesus confirmed globalist population-control advocate? :p

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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:43 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monastic celibacy is not mandated by the church, it is an optional vow. Christ and Paul both endorsed celibacy, your pooh-poohing it is inane and based on your fealty to something other than Christ.


What about the wedding in Cana? Shouldn't the Lord have prohibited them from this vile exercise?


A nice jewish boy listens to his mother.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:20 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:Yes, but life is also compromise, especially if you have a purpose you wish to fulfill.


Fortunately, I have never had to deal with that dilemma in real life.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ-Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), ṣạdiyq
Libertarian Marxist Communist Social Fiction, critical realism, Luxemburgism, Dialectical metaRealism
and The MarkFoster.NETwork. Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective ★⚑☭
A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر, remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal–⫯Ab°hāỳ, wa–yā ʿAliyy ʾal-⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (!يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Omakhandia
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Founded: Jun 05, 2017
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Postby Omakhandia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:36 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Yes, but life is also compromise, especially if you have a purpose you wish to fulfill.


Fortunately, I have never had to deal with that dilemma in real life.


I would argue that living in any society inherently involves compromise of some kind.
Don't copy+paste this into your signature. Come up with something original. Be an individual.

Pro: Capitalism, free speech, libertarianism, classical liberalism, secular humanism, gun rights, real feminism, religious freedom, choice, centrism, free trade.
Anti: Corruption, fascism, communism, vegans, far-left socialism, the alt-left and alt-right, religious fundamentalism, authoritarianism, collectivism.


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Democratic Communist Federation
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Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:17 pm

Omakhandia wrote:I would argue that living in any society inherently involves compromise of some kind.


Of course. However, there is a difference between making compromises on nonessentials and making compromises on one's basic values.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ-Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), ṣạdiyq
Libertarian Marxist Communist Social Fiction, critical realism, Luxemburgism, Dialectical metaRealism
and The MarkFoster.NETwork. Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective ★⚑☭
A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر, remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal–⫯Ab°hāỳ, wa–yā ʿAliyy ʾal-⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (!يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Oil exporting People
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Oil exporting People » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:35 pm

If it is just myself, no, my beliefs are worth dying for, if in memory of what was if nothing else. If I have to worry about my wife and children, that does change the calculus to be honest.
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Omakhandia
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Founded: Jun 05, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Omakhandia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:04 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Omakhandia wrote:I would argue that living in any society inherently involves compromise of some kind.


Of course. However, there is a difference between making compromises on nonessentials and making compromises on one's basic values.


I mean, if you really believe in communist collectives, you're definitely compromising some core beliefs no matter where you're from.
Don't copy+paste this into your signature. Come up with something original. Be an individual.

Pro: Capitalism, free speech, libertarianism, classical liberalism, secular humanism, gun rights, real feminism, religious freedom, choice, centrism, free trade.
Anti: Corruption, fascism, communism, vegans, far-left socialism, the alt-left and alt-right, religious fundamentalism, authoritarianism, collectivism.


In my spare time I admin for a movie discussion site. Drop by if you're interested!

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Menassa
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Menassa » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:05 pm

There are things that I would rather die than do.

Idolatry.
Adultery
Murder
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Pilarcraft
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Anarchy

Postby Pilarcraft » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:08 pm

Considering I'm already "lying to live another day" all day every day, Yeah. sure why not. I'd join them. survive, leave.
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