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Would you compromise your ideology for survival?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Would you compromise your ideology to join a tribe if doing so gave you the best chance of survival?

No, I would survive some other way or if necessary, or if necessary, die with my integrity.
38
21%
Yes, but only if my survival depended on it (meaning other means were unworkable for some reason)
33
18%
No, every society needs dissenters, and if that reduces my personal survival chances, so be it.
14
8%
Yes, but I'd be like a sleeper agent for the opposition, waiting for my chance to operate against the local tribe from the inside.
34
19%
Yes, survival is my ideology.
16
9%
No, it wouldn't be worth surviving with people I find ideologically poopy.
6
3%
Yes, and I would rise in power via my effectiveness and work to change the tribe.
28
15%
No, I would take on their whole tribe for my ideology, I don't care what the chances are.
14
8%
 
Total votes : 183

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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:29 am

UKCS wrote:Wouldn't anybody? We can all profess to be that "noble" or "courageous", or whichever word shall be used in this, but at the end of the day we're all the same, and basic self-preservation instincts will kick in.


Pretty much. I'd like to think I'd be all bold, but in the end, I'm human. I don't want to die.
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Imperium Sidhicum
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Ex-Nation

Postby Imperium Sidhicum » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:33 am

I suppose I wouldn't be above feigning belief in hateful ideas if that meant the difference between life and death. Though I'm not normally in the habit of pretending to agree with something I don't, that's probably because there isn't a real threat of death currently in effect for it.

Besides, how better to subvert a hateful system than to infiltrate it and sabotage it from within?
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Omakhandia
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Postby Omakhandia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:36 am

The Alexanderians wrote:What if your ideology IS survival?


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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:37 am

No.

It wouldn't be honourable.
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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:37 am

Probably, but likely only so long as I need to in order to get away/fight back, etc.

Being able to adapt to circumstances doesn't necessarily imply the necessity of total surrender to them. But those who don't bend, often break. I'd rather bend, at least you can come back up again if you do.

If I'm going to be killed, I might feign hateful ideas, but only under those circumstances. I'm normally pretty open about my real views because I know I won't be killed for them, but I daresay I wouldn't be that different from most other people's answer here if that changed.
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The Parkus Empire
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:39 am

I don't have an ideology. In fact I oppose ideology. So nothing to compromise
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:39 am

No. I would not give up my core values.
This are more a personal value system than a shared ideology, but they are close to the beliefs of Thomas Merton.

I had to decide whether to go to Viet Nam or go to jail, so I had to work out that forced choice scenario
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The Parkus Empire
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:41 am

Pope Joan wrote:No. I would not give up my core values.
This are more a personal value system than a shared ideology, but they are close to the beliefs of Thomas Merton.

I had to decide whether to go to Viet Nam or go to jail, so I had to work out that forced choice scenario

Didn't Merton fornicate while he was a monk, and stay in contact with his lover forever after?
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:55 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:No. I would not give up my core values.
This are more a personal value system than a shared ideology, but they are close to the beliefs of Thomas Merton.

I had to decide whether to go to Viet Nam or go to jail, so I had to work out that forced choice scenario

Didn't Merton fornicate while he was a monk, and stay in contact with his lover forever after?



Could have; that celibacy vow has done a lot of harm, so good for him if he did
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:08 am

Pope Joan wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Didn't Merton fornicate while he was a monk, and stay in contact with his lover forever after?



Could have; that celibacy vow has done a lot of harm, so good for him if he did

A lot of harm among monks?
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:27 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:

Could have; that celibacy vow has done a lot of harm, so good for him if he did

A lot of harm among monks?

For them and rest of the world. A lot of the insane prudishness associated with Christianity and its derived cultures can be directly traced to the facts religious workers were not allowed to marry. This is especially true in the catholic tradition that bars even priests from having sex. It's a practice that directly lead to the glorification of celibacy and general hatred of sexuality that you see in many religious communities in the west to this day.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:29 am

Hatred of sexuality is pretty asinine, to be honest.

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:32 am

Major-Tom wrote:
UKCS wrote:Wouldn't anybody? We can all profess to be that "noble" or "courageous", or whichever word shall be used in this, but at the end of the day we're all the same, and basic self-preservation instincts will kick in.


Pretty much. I'd like to think I'd be all bold, but in the end, I'm human. I don't want to die.

Everyone would like to be the brave one and never compromise, but I doubt even 2% of the population actually would do so.
Last edited by Kenmoria on Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:43 am

Purpelia wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:A lot of harm among monks?

For them and rest of the world. A lot of the insane prudishness associated with Christianity and its derived cultures can be directly traced to the facts religious workers were not allowed to marry. This is especially true in the catholic tradition that bars even priests from having sex. It's a practice that directly lead to the glorification of celibacy and general hatred of sexuality that you see in many religious communities in the west to this day.

Sex is in fact blessed and sacred when accomplished in marriage. Monks take a vow of celibacy because they choose to completely disengage with the world and devote themselves to a life of intense, quiet prayer, which a spouse and kids isn't compatible with.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:45 am

UKCS wrote:Wouldn't anybody? We can all profess to be that "noble" or "courageous", or whichever word shall be used in this, but at the end of the day we're all the same, and basic self-preservation instincts will kick in.

Some of us have gotten real good at suppressing those instincts. :p
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Bardarus
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Postby Bardarus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:02 am

Well i don't have an ideology and i don't count my Christian religion as a form of ideology but then again i don't know this 'other tribe' because the term is to vague, can you please give a clarification of this 'other tribe' but to answer the question then if the ideology does not include religion or abandoning my religion then no i would not join the other tribe, if the ideology does not concern religious beliefs then yes i would join the other tribe to increase my chances of survival.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:23 am

Well my ideology is multicultural world democracy. This means I'd likely, in this scenario be pro empire, but reforming it into a democracy. So I'd say no, as I'd prolly still have said empire on my side
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:21 am

Survival is my ideology. Values are a luxury in life and death situations.
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Aillyria
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Ex-Nation

Postby Aillyria » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:50 am

As a socialist in a capitalist world, I do it on the daily. But compromise my religion, hell no.
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Digital Planets
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Postby Digital Planets » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:57 am

Nyet.

Life as a Gopnik is tough enough already: We drive cars designed from the 70s, participate in heavy drinking ceremonies and dance even harder in our rituals.

When I get up at 7 in the morning I drink 5 shots of Skyy from the bottle before going to work in my piece of shit Lada 454. When I get to work, I'm allowed another shot of Skyy before working as a forklift driver, loading and unloading pallets of potatoes for peeling to make more vodka out of. When I clock out at 5 in the afternoon my religion requires me to go to the nearest bridge or cargo container and dance like a madman to hardbass, and drink even more Skyy until the bottle is gone.

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:03 am

House of Judah wrote:If adopting the local culture/ideology does not involve harming others (e.g. human sacrifice, turning over daughters who are still children to be married to a revered 'elder') then sure. The stance of Judaism is that to save ones life, one can do just about anything as long as it does not harm another, and to save the life of another gets the same exemption.

Yes. Which is why in my neighborhood, people won't drive or turn on and off lights, etc. on the Sabbath -- but if someone is seriously ill or injured, they damn well are driving them to the hospital, Sabbath or no.

A reasonable stance.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:07 am

Put on a brave face, and pretend to go along with it.

When the revolution comes, surrender to them and then become a collaborator.
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Yagon
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Postby Yagon » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:38 am

Bardarus wrote:Well i don't have an ideology and i don't count my Christian religion as a form of ideology but then again i don't know this 'other tribe' because the term is to vague, can you please give a clarification of this 'other tribe' but to answer the question then if the ideology does not include religion or abandoning my religion then no i would not join the other tribe, if the ideology does not concern religious beliefs then yes i would join the other tribe to increase my chances of survival.


In the scenario as presented it would involve changing to their religion (at least outwardly).

As a sub-branch, suppose their religion was Southwest American Protestant Evangelism (or something of that sort). Could you align with that?

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Kennlind
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Ex-Nation

Postby Kennlind » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:41 am

I'd compromise some beliefs, but there are some views I will never compromise.
Ignore views for now, I'm reading a lot and becoming even more intellectual. They will most likely change a little
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Yagon
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Ex-Nation

Postby Yagon » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:43 am

Kennlind wrote:I'd compromise some beliefs, but there are some views I will never compromise.


So far the things that seem to come up the most are:

Religion

Compliance or non-action in the face of the Dominant Tribe slaughtering an outgroup

Messing with your sex options

Any of these a deal breaker?

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