Right Wing Discussion Thread X: Pol's closed

[Aellex]

Ironically, myself - I rather like how SD here in Sweden has been drifting to the more libertarian kind of conservatism/nationalism of parties like its nordic sister parties and UKIP, and I don't feel exactly fanatical about the authoritarian stain of nationalism that Le Pen seems to stand for, especially proposals to ban religious symbols in public places and stuff like that.

But because of how the French election system works, a vote for "moderate" nationalists (that would be Debout la France, no?) are useless. So I'd have to vote FN. The issues facing all of Europe are too big for such concerns. Maybe the French should consider changing that, if the French people really care about pluralism.

Tbh, I'm not that much into the F.N (tho not because of their authoritarians velleities, that I don't care about).

Pluralism is over-rated and it's enforcement counter-intuitive and undemocratic. Moreover, I'd rather not corrupt the well-running system our blessed Prophet De Gaulle (pbuh) bestowed upon us by unduly changing it so to force parliamentarism, especially when the Fifth Republic was created specifically to get our Nation ride of its taint.

[The Parkus Empire]

Ah, heh heh, but because of your unknowingly modern perspective you associate individualism with free will. That's certainly not what it used to be associated with (see for instance Tocqueville). Individualism in Orthodoxy is a turn from free will, since God is the one who makes us free (John 8:32). When satan in his individualism turned from God, the choice was free, but even he at this point became totally corrupted in will, because will is a gift from God and perverting it breaks it. And when we too misuse our will for the "individual" instead of the divine, it places us under the yoke of sin and satan, which only God can free us of. Individualism is a choice one can make with free will, but once you make it, you lose free will, but certainly can stay an individualist.

That... doesn't really make sense.

How is individualism not inherently binded with free will? I realize you believe in a supreme creator deity who's the propagator of everything, but even within the context of such a paradigm it makes little sense. If anything, being closer to God would result in less free will, especially considering how the Orthodox conception of Heaven is more or less the individual giving up their free will to become one with God.

Despite my antipathy towards Hegel, I suggest you read The Philosophy of Right

[The Parkus Empire]

Sanctissima is most certainly not a Christian.

Amusing that that's what you object to.

You read a lot of malice into me that's...really not there. When I am hostile to someone I really let 'em have it. I am not passive-agressive

[Genivaria]

Amusing that that's what you object to.

You read a lot of malice into me that's...really not there. When I am hostile to someone I really let 'em have it. I am not passive-agressive

Yes.

[The Parkus Empire]

You read a lot of malice into me that's...really not there. When I am hostile to someone I really let 'em have it. I am not passive-agressive

Yes.

Which is probably projecting on your part.

[The Parkus Empire]

That is not to say you are a malicious person in general, just that you feel intense malice and hatred toward me, and shift that intensity by reading it into me in my sentiment toward you and others. But when I'm hostile, I really unload, like with Soldati. I don't fool around

[The Parkus Empire]

And the cause of your intense hatred (as well as Lumi's and CM's) is quite simple: I am outspoken

[The East Marches II]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-national-service-emmanuel-macron-french-president-military-a8209681.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

Looks like Macron is gonna make Aellex get a job.

Did France just relocate their balls?

Nothing of the sort, even if it gets through they won't get real training, its for show like the German rumblings about 40 day wonders. Aelex was kind enough to elaborate more with French sources on the matter. I thought for as second too that was the case. Alas, no luck.

[The East Marches II]

Hé, well, I will take the compliment my friend and gladly return it.

Well, tbh, I thought our standards for granting the BAC were pretty sub-par for even someone who paid the barest minimum of attention all year can get it if they cram enough in the two weeks prior the written exam (friend of mine actually did it tho he only barely managed to, having had to go to the oral exams) but if not even the latter part is required to get the diploma, then there is a massive problem indeed.

You have to keep in mind that the French education system is quite substantially different from the North American one. For starters, we don't have lycées. Or rather, our version of lycées is different enough from that of France's to a point where the two systemsaren't really comparable. But that's all more structural than strictly academic, so I suppose it's neither here nor there.

The main issue in regards to the North American education system is that, as TEM pointed out, progressives have taken over the education system (although I'd personally chalk it up to a very nascent version of 20th century secular humanism combined with watered-down Socialist nonsense). There's been an obsession over the past couple of decades with the notion of equity, that is to say a worldview wherein social equality between individuals is considered the only desirable state of affairs, and thus efforts must be undertaken to enforce this ideal onto reality. This manifests itself in the education system primarily in the form of pedagogical inclusion, adaptations and IPP's. The latter two are pretty much different versions of the same things, but to briefly summarize all three:

- Pedagogical inclusion: basically, it's the theory that all students, no matter what intellectual level they are at, should all be in the same classroom. That is to say, in practical terms, that students who fare significantly more poorly than the average shouldn't be in separate classrooms. This includes everyone from kids who simply put in no effort and have thus become quantifiably stupid from lack of interest, to children with genuine mental disabilities. Doesn't take a genius to realize this is a terrible system, since students who would otherwise be given a chance to catch up or (in the case of the severely retarded) at least develop life skills in separate programs to survive in the real world and contribute to society as best they can upon reaching adulthood, are lumped into the same classes as everyday students. This inherently leads to the problem of teachers needing to teach multiple lessons in the same class (because there's simply no way in hell that kids with low mental capacities can learn at even a remotely similar pace to their counterparts), which leads us to the next problem.

- Adaptations and IPP's: both are essentially alternative programs or curriculums offered to the students mentioned above due to the abundantly obvious failings and impracticalities of inclusion. In essence, they're a means by which standards are lowered for students who fare worse than their counterparts so that they can actually pass the courses they have no business being signed up for. Adaptations, essentially, come in the form of easier tests and lowered standards for grading; whereas IPP's (individualized personal programs) are entirely new curriculums geared for students who are, for all intents and purposes, legally retarded. Essentially, it's elementary-grade work given to students who have been placed in High School classes with other everyday students. So while you have the majority of your class learning Shakespeare or classical literature, you'd got a few IPP students in the back reading kindergarten books or doing basic literacy exercises, all the while being robbed of an actual education because a few Social Democrats in office decided to take the notion of "everyone should be equal" a bit too literally.

I forgot to add unfortunately that regarding this bolded part in particular, it was entirely correct. I remember that sort of nonsense from No Child Left Behind when it first came out. It was such a shitshow for results that they had to turn it down a few notches. Eventually, it died a mostly quiet death. I wish it were gone entirely however. It was pure cancer. I wish I had commented upon it earlier.

[The Parkus Empire]

Daily reminder that if don't own land, you have no actual interest in the country, and that if you don't pay taxes you have no actual interest in the government. Both should ideally be required to vote outside of community concerns. Although the government needs to make land more widely held first, especially among the poor, but it is feasible to do that through programs. And as for taxes, even a homeless bum should pay them to vote, even if only a token tax like a dollar a month.

[The East Marches II]

Daily reminder that if don't own land, you have no actual interest in the country, and that if you don't pay taxes you have no actual interest in the government. Both should ideally be required to vote outside of community concerns. Although the government needs to make land more widely held first, especially among the poor, but it is feasible to do that through programs. And as for taxes, even a homeless bum should pay them to vote, even if only a token tax like a dollar a month.

How would such a government make that land available?

[The Parkus Empire]

Daily reminder that if don't own land, you have no actual interest in the country, and that if you don't pay taxes you have no actual interest in the government. Both should ideally be required to vote outside of community concerns. Although the government needs to make land more widely held first, especially among the poor, but it is feasible to do that through programs. And as for taxes, even a homeless bum should pay them to vote, even if only a token tax like a dollar a month.

How would such a government make that land available?

Interest free loans or grants (used only for the land), all well as abolishing property tax and replacing it with a progressive poll tax.

[The East Marches II]

How would such a government make that land available?

Interest free loans or grants (used only for the land), all well as abolishing property tax and replacing it with a progressive poll tax.

That is an interesting proposal tbh. You'd set quite a few people foaming at the mouth. That is an interesting comment regarding interest however. Would the homeless man really have any motivation to care beyond the token tax though? That part feels self-defeating. What of those who squander their land?

[The Parkus Empire]

Interest free loans or grants (used only for the land), all well as abolishing property tax and replacing it with a progressive poll tax.

That is an interesting proposal tbh. You'd set quite a few people foaming at the mouth. That is an interesting comment regarding interest however. Would the homeless man really have any motivation to care beyond the token tax though? That part feels self-defeating. What of those who squander their land?

The homeless man presumably has no income, he shouldn't feel the need to pay more than the token, which he would raise by collecting cans and so on.

If you squader your land, you squander your suffrage except for community issues.

[The East Marches II]

That is an interesting proposal tbh. You'd set quite a few people foaming at the mouth. That is an interesting comment regarding interest however. Would the homeless man really have any motivation to care beyond the token tax though? That part feels self-defeating. What of those who squander their land?

The homeless man presumably has no income, he shouldn't feel the need to pay more than the token, which he would raise by collecting cans and so on.

If you squader your land, you squander your suffrage except for community issues.

I can get behind it tbh.

[The Parkus Empire]

Someone who squandered their land could get back suffrage by acquiring more down the road, btw. Just no more help from the state

[The East Marches II]

Someone who squandered their land could get back suffrage by acquiring more down the road, btw. Just no more help from the state

I thought that would be a given tbh.

[The Parkus Empire]

I also think that why you shouldn't have to be married to vote, state help for land ought to be given once you get married, not at eighteen, which would be a bad idea

[The Parkus Empire]

Unless you get married at eighteen or younger, in which case you still can get land aid

[Aillyria]

Daily reminder that if don't own land, you have no actual interest in the country, and that if you don't pay taxes you have no actual interest in the government. Both should ideally be required to vote outside of community concerns. Although the government needs to make land more widely held first, especially among the poor, but it is feasible to do that through programs. And as for taxes, even a homeless bum should pay them to vote, even if only a token tax like a dollar a month.

The homeless are usually fucked over military veterans......that's a shitty idea. I'm personally insulted by the notion those of us that become homeless shouldn't be able to vote.

[The Parkus Empire]

Daily reminder that if don't own land, you have no actual interest in the country, and that if you don't pay taxes you have no actual interest in the government. Both should ideally be required to vote outside of community concerns. Although the government needs to make land more widely held first, especially among the poor, but it is feasible to do that through programs. And as for taxes, even a homeless bum should pay them to vote, even if only a token tax like a dollar a month.

The homeless are usually fucked over military veterans......that's a shitty idea. I'm personally insulted by the notion those of us that become homeless shouldn't be able to vote.

I am a veteran and have been homeless.

I said a token tax of a dollar a month. You can raise that when homeless

[Sanctissima]

You have to keep in mind that the French education system is quite substantially different from the North American one. For starters, we don't have lycées. Or rather, our version of lycées is different enough from that of France's to a point where the two systemsaren't really comparable. But that's all more structural than strictly academic, so I suppose it's neither here nor there.

The main issue in regards to the North American education system is that, as TEM pointed out, progressives have taken over the education system (although I'd personally chalk it up to a very nascent version of 20th century secular humanism combined with watered-down Socialist nonsense). There's been an obsession over the past couple of decades with the notion of equity, that is to say a worldview wherein social equality between individuals is considered the only desirable state of affairs, and thus efforts must be undertaken to enforce this ideal onto reality. This manifests itself in the education system primarily in the form of pedagogical inclusion, adaptations and IPP's. The latter two are pretty much different versions of the same things, but to briefly summarize all three:

- Pedagogical inclusion: basically, it's the theory that all students, no matter what intellectual level they are at, should all be in the same classroom. That is to say, in practical terms, that students who fare significantly more poorly than the average shouldn't be in separate classrooms. This includes everyone from kids who simply put in no effort and have thus become quantifiably stupid from lack of interest, to children with genuine mental disabilities. Doesn't take a genius to realize this is a terrible system, since students who would otherwise be given a chance to catch up or (in the case of the severely retarded) at least develop life skills in separate programs to survive in the real world and contribute to society as best they can upon reaching adulthood, are lumped into the same classes as everyday students. This inherently leads to the problem of teachers needing to teach multiple lessons in the same class (because there's simply no way in hell that kids with low mental capacities can learn at even a remotely similar pace to their counterparts), which leads us to the next problem.

- Adaptations and IPP's: both are essentially alternative programs or curriculums offered to the students mentioned above due to the abundantly obvious failings and impracticalities of inclusion. In essence, they're a means by which standards are lowered for students who fare worse than their counterparts so that they can actually pass the courses they have no business being signed up for. Adaptations, essentially, come in the form of easier tests and lowered standards for grading; whereas IPP's (individualized personal programs) are entirely new curriculums geared for students who are, for all intents and purposes, legally retarded. Essentially, it's elementary-grade work given to students who have been placed in High School classes with other everyday students. So while you have the majority of your class learning Shakespeare or classical literature, you'd got a few IPP students in the back reading kindergarten books or doing basic literacy exercises, all the while being robbed of an actual education because a few Social Democrats in office decided to take the notion of "everyone should be equal" a bit too literally.

I forgot to add unfortunately that regarding this bolded part in particular, it was entirely correct. I remember that sort of nonsense from No Child Left Behind when it first came out. It was such a shitshow for results that they had to turn it down a few notches. Eventually, it died a mostly quiet death. I wish it were gone entirely however. It was pure cancer. I wish I had commented upon it earlier.

Unfortunately it's come back, at least in spirit, in the form of pedagogical inclusion. Basically, unless they have a severe disciplinary issue (which is code nowadays for criminal record/history of violence), all the retarded kids are lumped in with the regulars so as to "include" them in the "education process". For some of the kids it's fine, and is tolerable to a certain extent, but for the vast majority it just adds more chaos than usual to the classroom and renders things... difficult, to say the least. We're pretty much at a point where kids with legally retarded IQ's are expected to be taught in the same classroom as the normal kids, all in the name of equality.

Frankly, it's just ideological trash with no real practical value, and zero benefits whatsoever for any of the parties involved. The regular kids get a lower quality education because having autistic kids in the class invariably means constant interruptions, the retarded kids are screwed out of what little chance at a future they could have because they're being taught zero life skills whatsoever in lieu of being swamped with busywork to keep them occupied, and both the teachers and TA's are left disheartened and embittered at the whole state of affairs.

Oh well, at least the social liberal MP's and Congressmen get to sleep at night knowing how socially progressive and tolerant they are.

It also doesn't help the situation that teachers' unions in both the US and Canada are heavily bureaucratized trash heaps with little actual value, but that's another matter.

[The Parkus Empire]

I also think the idea thay veterans get "fucked over" is not really accurate. It is true that trauma and injuries from combat do not always get the care and compensation they merit, but, these days, compared to civilians, veterans get very good benefits and quite a head start on life.

[Sanctissima]

That... doesn't really make sense.

How is individualism not inherently binded with free will? I realize you believe in a supreme creator deity who's the propagator of everything, but even within the context of such a paradigm it makes little sense. If anything, being closer to God would result in less free will, especially considering how the Orthodox conception of Heaven is more or less the individual giving up their free will to become one with God.

Despite my antipathy towards Hegel, I suggest you read The Philosophy of Right

I'll try it, but I can't guarantee I'll get far.

I've tried reading Phenomenology of the Spirit in the past, and just... couldn't get into it. I didn't mind the esotericism so much as Hegel's habit of taking half-a-dozen pages just to make one simple point... every damn time.

[Bakery Hill]

Despite my antipathy towards Hegel, I suggest you read The Philosophy of Right

I'll try it, but I can't guarantee I'll get far.

I've tried reading Phenomenology of the Spirit in the past, and just... couldn't get into it. I didn't mind the esotericism so much as Hegel's habit of taking half-a-dozen pages just to make one simple point... every damn time.

Have you tried taking DMT? Apparently it helps.