Right Wing Discussion Thread X: Pol's closed

[United Muscovite Nations]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... e=Facebook

Looks like Macron is gonna make Aellex get a job.

[Genivaria]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-national-service-emmanuel-macron-french-president-military-a8209681.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

Looks like Macron is gonna make Aellex get a job.

Did France just relocate their balls?

[The Parkus Empire]

Okay, well, you are of course welcome to report me if you strongly believe that. But I am certainly not trying to provoke your wrath, and you are probably taking my posts too personally

When you choose to respond to questions with mockery and insults and then back-pedal and proclaim 'it was just a joke man!' when called on it, it says alot about you.

I had no idea I upset you so much, Genivaria. Forgive me. I'll be more respectful in the future.

[Genivaria]

When you choose to respond to questions with mockery and insults and then back-pedal and proclaim 'it was just a joke man!' when called on it, it says alot about you.

I had no idea I upset you so much, Genivaria. Forgive me. I'll be more respectful in the future.

Upset me implies that I'm at all surprised by your belligerence at this point, I assure you I am not.

[Aellex]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-national-service-emmanuel-macron-french-president-military-a8209681.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

Looks like Macron is gonna make Aellex get a job.

It's an half-assed civic service with some contact with the military, the "Genius Mind" isn't bringing back conscription, sadly.
Also, pls don't equate me with the rest of you NEETs, Imma gud student in engineering, my bois.

[The Parkus Empire]

Okay, well, you are of course welcome to report me if you strongly believe that. But I am certainly not trying to provoke your wrath, and you are probably taking my posts too personally

Fake humility is not impressive and nobody is going to play that game. Your consistent pseudo-intellectualism only makes you look foolish, and it doesn’t contribute anything to this forum.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, Lumi, but you strike me more and more as a friend of open-mindedness and progress. It's deeply troubling. Please take a Pascendi dominici gregis and call me in the morning.

[Genivaria]

Just looked up the French Defense Minister or "Minister of the Armed Forces."
Florence Parly has never either served in the military or education related to the military, also she's a Socialist apparently which I'm sure might make a few people here foam at the mouth.

[The Parkus Empire]

That's why I'm saying it's hypocritical to act like Parkus having a double standard in which he holds Christians to a much higher standard than non-Christians is a bad thing.

That's a bit different from saying that non-Christians have no free will, that's pretty extreme.

Are you suggesting that fallen will is free?

[Sanctissima]

That's a bit different from saying that non-Christians have no free will, that's pretty extreme.

Are you suggesting that fallen will is free?

Even in the strictest of theological terms, that's a non-sequitur. The entire premise of "fallen man" is that he's too individualistic.

[Genivaria]

Are you suggesting that fallen will is free?

Even in the strictest of theological terms, that's a non-sequitur. The entire premise of "fallen man" is that he's too individualistic.

I have literally heard all my pre-apostate life that sin is a direct result of our free will.
But then I was raised Protestant.

[Aellex]

Just looked up the French Defense Minister or "Minister of the Armed Forces."
Florence Parly has never either served in the military or education related to the military, also she's a Socialist apparently which I'm sure might make a few people here foam at the mouth.

Yeah tho to be fair, the Parti Socialiste is Socialist in nothing but in name being akin to your Anglo-Saxon liberals in pretty much every way.
As for the people thinking that Macron is secretly a rightist, nationalist or militarist; kind reminder, again, that Macron slashed our defense budget so much that based De Villier resigned in protest over it just last summer. Don't kind the pompous cunt too much credit.

[The Parkus Empire]

Are you suggesting that fallen will is free?

Even in the strictest of theological terms, that's a non-sequitur. The entire premise of "fallen man" is that he's too individualistic.

Because individual (i.e. without God) will is not free.

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
-2 Corinthians 3:17

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
-Galatians 5:1

When you assert an "individualist" turn against God, in places you bondage to satan and sin.

"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."
-Romans 7:15

We put corrupted self-will and the body to death by participating in the Crucifixion

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
-Romans 6:3

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
-Romans 8:13

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
-Romans 8:14

"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
-Romans 8:20-21

Through baptism we can regain our free will, but it also deteriorates when we turn to sin and has to constantly be renewed. When God restores our free will, and exercise self-will, it pushes us under the thumb of satan and corrupts our will.

[The Parkus Empire]

Even in the strictest of theological terms, that's a non-sequitur. The entire premise of "fallen man" is that he's too individualistic.

I have literally heard all my pre-apostate life that sin is a direct result of our free will.
But then I was raised Protestant.

Original Sin is, as well as sin committed by Christians. But if you are not in Christ, you sin by default.

"But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
-Romans 8:23-24

[Sanctissima]

Even in the strictest of theological terms, that's a non-sequitur. The entire premise of "fallen man" is that he's too individualistic.

I have literally heard all my pre-apostate life that sin is a direct result of our free will.
But then I was raised Protestant.

It's pretty much a standard staple of Christian theology. Or at least, it is in Catholicism too. I was raised Catholic before eventually becoming a Daoist.

Maybe the Orthodox view on the matter is different, but I've never come across any shred of their theology that suggests otherwise.

[Genivaria]

Even in the strictest of theological terms, that's a non-sequitur. The entire premise of "fallen man" is that he's too individualistic.

Because individual (i.e. without God) will is not free.

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
-2 Corinthians 3:17

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
-Galatians 5:1

When you assert an "individualist" turn against God, in places you bondage to satan and sin.

"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."
-Romans 7:15

We put corrupted self-will and the body to death by participating in the Crucifixion

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
-Romans 6:3

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
-Romans 8:13

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
-Romans 8:14

"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
-Romans 8:20-21

Through baptism we can regain our free will, but it also deteriorates when we turn to sin and has to constantly be renewed. When God restores our free will, and exercise self-will, it pushes us under the thumb of satan and corrupts our will.

Congratulations you've invented a new denomination.

[The Parkus Empire]

Because individual (i.e. without God) will is not free.

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
-2 Corinthians 3:17

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
-Galatians 5:1

When you assert an "individualist" turn against God, in places you bondage to satan and sin.

"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."
-Romans 7:15

We put corrupted self-will and the body to death by participating in the Crucifixion

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
-Romans 6:3

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
-Romans 8:13

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
-Romans 8:14

"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
-Romans 8:20-21

Through baptism we can regain our free will, but it also deteriorates when we turn to sin and has to constantly be renewed. When God restores our free will, and exercise self-will, it pushes us under the thumb of satan and corrupts our will.

Congratulations you've invented a new denomination.

Not all, I'm just reiterating what the Orthodox saints say about free will. See, for instance, The Path to Salvation, by Theophan the Recluse.

[Genivaria]

I have literally heard all my pre-apostate life that sin is a direct result of our free will.
But then I was raised Protestant.

Original Sin is, as well as sin committed by Christians. But if you are not in Christ, you sin be default.

"But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
-Romans 8:23-24

So if you don't accept Christ then the entire reason for accepting Christ (washing away of our sins) becomes entirely moot!?
WAT!?

[The Parkus Empire]

So if you don't accept Christ then the entire reason for accepting Christ (washing away of our sins) becomes entirely moot!?
WAT!?

No, by being in bondage to sin you still suffer. And in fact can still be judged (but it is forbidden for Christians to judge you, "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without [the Church]? do not ye judge them that are within?", 1 Corinthians 5:12). But God doesn't judge non-Christians very harshly ("But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48).

[Sanctissima]

Even in the strictest of theological terms, that's a non-sequitur. The entire premise of "fallen man" is that he's too individualistic.

Because individual (i.e. without God) will is not free.

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
-2 Corinthians 3:17

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
-Galatians 5:1

When you assert an "individualist" turn against God, in places you bondage to satan and sin.

"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."
-Romans 7:15

We put corrupted self-will and the body to death by participating in the Crucifixion

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
-Romans 6:3

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
-Romans 8:13

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
-Romans 8:14

"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
-Romans 8:20-21

Through baptism we can regain our free will, but it also deteriorates when we turn to sin and has to constantly be renewed. When God restores our free will, and exercise self-will, it pushes us under the thumb of satan and corrupts our will.

Perhaps the Orthodox have a different view on the matter, but this isn't the standard view on the matter. If anything, the tree of knowledge is considered an allegory for free-will, and Satan the archetype of individualism. It's quite the staple of Western Christian literature, with everything from Paradise Lost to the Divine Comedy expressing the basic paradigm as such.

[The Parkus Empire]

Because individual (i.e. without God) will is not free.

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
-2 Corinthians 3:17

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
-Galatians 5:1

When you assert an "individualist" turn against God, in places you bondage to satan and sin.

"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."
-Romans 7:15

We put corrupted self-will and the body to death by participating in the Crucifixion

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
-Romans 6:3

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
-Romans 8:13

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
-Romans 8:14

"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
-Romans 8:20-21

Through baptism we can regain our free will, but it also deteriorates when we turn to sin and has to constantly be renewed. When God restores our free will, and exercise self-will, it pushes us under the thumb of satan and corrupts our will.

Perhaps the Orthodox have a different view on the matter, but this isn't the standard view on the matter. If anything, the tree of knowledge is considered an allegory for free-will, and Satan the archetype of individualism. It's quite the staple of Western Christian literature, with everything from Paradise Lost to the Divine Comedy expressing the basic paradigm as such.

Ah, heh heh, but because of your unknowingly modern perspective you associate individualism with free will. That's certainly not what it used to be associated with (see for instance Tocqueville). Individualism in Orthodoxy is a turn from free will, since God is the one who makes us free (John 8:32). When satan in his individualism turned from God, the choice was free, but even he at this point became totally corrupted in will, because will is a gift from God and perverting it breaks it. And when we too misuse our will for the "individual" instead of the divine, it places us under the yoke of sin and satan, which only God can free us of. Individualism is a choice one can make with free will, but once you make it, you lose free will, but certainly can stay an individualist.

[Genivaria]

Perhaps the Orthodox have a different view on the matter, but this isn't the standard view on the matter. If anything, the tree of knowledge is considered an allegory for free-will, and Satan the archetype of individualism. It's quite the staple of Western Christian literature, with everything from Paradise Lost to the Divine Comedy expressing the basic paradigm as such.

Ah, heh heh, but because of your unknowingly modern perspective you associate individualism with free will. That's certainly not what it used to be associated with (see for instance Tocqueville). Individualism in Orthodoxy is a turn from free will, since God is the one who makes us free (John 8:32). When satan in his individualism turned from God, the choice was free, but even he at this point became totally corrupted in will, because will is a gift from God and perverting it breaks it. And when we too misuse our will for the "individual" instead of the divine, it places us under the yoke of sin and satan, which only God can free us of. Individualism is a choice one can make with free will, but once you make it, you lose free will, but certainly can stay an individualist.

It is impressive that you can also talk down to fellow Christians.

[The Parkus Empire]

Ah, heh heh, but because of your unknowingly modern perspective you associate individualism with free will. That's certainly not what it used to be associated with (see for instance Tocqueville). Individualism in Orthodoxy is a turn from free will, since God is the one who makes us free (John 8:32). When satan in his individualism turned from God, the choice was free, but even he at this point became totally corrupted in will, because will is a gift from God and perverting it breaks it. And when we too misuse our will for the "individual" instead of the divine, it places us under the yoke of sin and satan, which only God can free us of. Individualism is a choice one can make with free will, but once you make it, you lose free will, but certainly can stay an individualist.

It is impressive that you can also talk down to fellow Christians.

Sanctissima is most certainly not a Christian.

[Sanctissima]

Perhaps the Orthodox have a different view on the matter, but this isn't the standard view on the matter. If anything, the tree of knowledge is considered an allegory for free-will, and Satan the archetype of individualism. It's quite the staple of Western Christian literature, with everything from Paradise Lost to the Divine Comedy expressing the basic paradigm as such.

Ah, heh heh, but because of your unknowingly modern perspective you associate individualism with free will. That's certainly not what it used to be associated with (see for instance Tocqueville). Individualism in Orthodoxy is a turn from free will, since God is the one who makes us free (John 8:32). When satan in his individualism turned from God, the choice was free, but even he at this point became totally corrupted in will, because will is a gift from God and perverting it breaks it. And when we too misuse our will for the "individual" instead of the divine, it places us under the yoke of sin and satan, which only God can free us of. Individualism is a choice one can make with free will, but once you make it, you lose free will, but certainly can stay an individualist.

That... doesn't really make sense.

How is individualism not inherently binded with free will? I realize you believe in a supreme creator deity who's the propagator of everything, but even within the context of such a paradigm it makes little sense. If anything, being closer to God would result in less free will, especially considering how the Orthodox conception of Heaven is more or less the individual giving up their free will to become one with God.

[Genivaria]

It is impressive that you can also talk down to fellow Christians.

Sanctissima is most certainly not a Christian.

Amusing that that's what you object to.

[The Feylands]

Yeah tho to be fair, the Parti Socialiste is Socialist in nothing but in name being akin to your Anglo-Saxon liberals in pretty much every way.
As for the people thinking that Macron is secretly a rightist, nationalist or militarist; kind reminder, again, that Macron slashed our defense budget so much that based De Villier resigned in protest over it just last summer. Don't kind the pompous cunt too much credit.

Ironically, myself - I rather like how SD here in Sweden has been drifting to the more libertarian kind of conservatism/nationalism of parties like its nordic sister parties and UKIP, and I don't feel exactly fanatical about the authoritarian stain of nationalism that Le Pen seems to stand for, especially proposals to ban religious symbols in public places and stuff like that.

But because of how the French election system works, a vote for "moderate" nationalists (that would be Debout la France, no?) are useless. So I'd have to vote FN. The issues facing all of Europe are too big for such concerns. Maybe the French should consider changing that, if the French people really care about pluralism.