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If you could alter or overturn one of these treaties, which would it be?

1 - Treaty of Paris (1783)
26
5%
2 - Pact of Umar
9
2%
3 - Treaty of Versailles
365
65%
4 - The Peace of Westphalia
24
4%
5 - The Congress of Vienna (1814)
33
6%
6 - Treaty of Berlin (1868)
12
2%
7 - Treaty of Trianon
19
3%
8 - Treaty of San Francisco
13
2%
9 - Japan–Korea Treaty (1905)
37
7%
10 - Other (Please give your take in the comment section, only so many options can be added)
26
5%
 
Total votes : 564

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Mattopilos II
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mattopilos II » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:16 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Mattopilos II wrote:I never said I agreed with it. I am probing what your position is i.e. if it is based purely on legality or a societal stance.

I don't see revolution as generally a good source of government. Even if it deposes a bad government, it generally entails one that's worse. If a revolution is to protect the law, however, you don't tend to get massive bloody purges.


Revolution to protect the law on't necessitate that is what will actually happen afterwards. People tend to throw laws out the window in times of desperation.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:22 am

Mattopilos II wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:I don't see revolution as generally a good source of government. Even if it deposes a bad government, it generally entails one that's worse. If a revolution is to protect the law, however, you don't tend to get massive bloody purges.


Revolution to protect the law on't necessitate that is what will actually happen afterwards. People tend to throw laws out the window in times of desperation.


I would still trust it much more. The French Revolution commenced with murder and heads on pikes, whereas in America John Adams said one of his proudest accomplishments was the legal defense of the British soldiers of the Boston Massacre. Moreover if the law is being broken by the state, rule of law has already been overturned
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Mattopilos II
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Postby Mattopilos II » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:30 am

Okay... and how many revolutions are based on law, and as such how many can you base this upon?
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“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.” - Max Stirner
“The victory of a moral ideal is achieved by the same ‘immoral’ means as every victory: force, lies, slander, injustice.” - Nietzsche
“Our duties - are the rights of others over us.” - Nietzsche

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:39 am

Mattopilos II wrote:Okay... and how many revolutions are based on law, and as such how many can you base this upon?

Glorious Revolution and American Revolution and Texian Revolution, to name a few
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:06 am

This article is a bit old (October of last year), but it's a very good critique of neocon imperialism: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... or-empire/
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Mattopilos II
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mattopilos II » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:09 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Mattopilos II wrote:Okay... and how many revolutions are based on law, and as such how many can you base this upon?

Glorious Revolution and American Revolution and Texian Revolution, to name a few


What made the first "legal" and the third "legal"? I can understand the middle one, but only because it is far more talked about.
Anarchist without adjectives, Post-Leftist, Anti-theist, STEM major.
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.” - Max Stirner
“The victory of a moral ideal is achieved by the same ‘immoral’ means as every victory: force, lies, slander, injustice.” - Nietzsche
“Our duties - are the rights of others over us.” - Nietzsche

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:22 am

Mattopilos II wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Glorious Revolution and American Revolution and Texian Revolution, to name a few


What made the first "legal" and the third "legal"? I can understand the middle one, but only because it is far more talked about.

The king had to rule in accord with the law, but every time a judge obstructed him, he dismissed the judge. He unilaterally suspended parliament in session.

The Texian Revolution was precipitated by the Mexican government's illegal scrapping of the Constitution
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:17 am

Trump has said he wants to slap a global tariff of 24 percent on steel imports, the most severe of three options presented to him in a report in January. He’s also considering as much as a 10 percent duty on all aluminum entering the U.S., which would be more than 2.5 percentage points higher than the harshest of Commerce’s recommendations.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomb ... um-tariffs

Moar
Last edited by The Parkus Empire on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Taihei Tengoku
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:59 am

Surely this will give the pampered US steel industry room to grow and not make it a complacent rent-seeker, which is exactly what happened the last time tariffs were a thing

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:16 am

Taihei Tengoku wrote:Surely this will give the pampered US steel industry room to grow and not make it a complacent rent-seeker, which is exactly what happened the last time tariffs were a thing

The past is unimportant to conservatives. As is the present. And the future.
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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:20 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Taihei Tengoku wrote:Surely this will give the pampered US steel industry room to grow and not make it a complacent rent-seeker, which is exactly what happened the last time tariffs were a thing

The past is unimportant to conservatives. As is the present. And the future.


I don't CM, your sort do a great job of ignoring the past too. Why just look at this uninterrupted track record of failure for 20 years :^]

Their future is dead but they're still asleep at the helm. Future's looking bright!

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Last edited by The East Marches II on Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:22 am

Duke Madigan of Chicago may fall, please observe a moment of silence.

Press F to pay respects

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:25 am

The East Marches II wrote:I don't CM, your sort do a great job of ignoring the past too. Why just look at this uninterrupted track record of failure for 20 years :^]

Their future is dead but they're still asleep at the helm. Future's looking bright!

>> implying we don't find new and exciting ways to fail with each generation

0/10 No True Progressive
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Aillyria
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Postby Aillyria » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:39 am

Oy, what do you guys think of Billy Graham? His death was big news in my state, NC, since he was a native.
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......
Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:22 am

Aillyria wrote:Oy, what do you guys think of Billy Graham? His death was big news in my state, NC, since he was a native.

Good man. Some of the left complained he was too political, but I don't see them making this complaint about MLK (who Graham was a major ally of). Graham himself greatly regretted his political stuff, though
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:23 am

Taihei Tengoku wrote:Surely this will give the pampered US steel industry room to grow and not make it a complacent rent-seeker, which is exactly what happened the last time tariffs were a thing

I notice steel unions are overjoyed.

Our steel industry has to shoulders way higher costs for wages, taxes, environmental regulations and so on. Progressives love to clamp down on domestic ability to compete while crying about any interference with the free market when it comes to foreign competition
Last edited by The Parkus Empire on Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Old Tyrannia
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:36 am

Aillyria wrote:Oy, what do you guys think of Billy Graham? His death was big news in my state, NC, since he was a native.

I'm not a huge fan of Evangelical Christianity, but from what I know of him I do think that Billy Graham was a good-hearted man and a sincere Christian. His death was a great loss. I think that in later life many of the statements released in his name probably originated with his son, who I find decidedly less admirable.
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Hammer Britannia
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Postby Hammer Britannia » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:37 am

Aillyria wrote:Oy, what do you guys think of Billy Graham? His death was big news in my state, NC, since he was a native.

A loss, even if you don't like him.
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Taihei Tengoku
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Postby Taihei Tengoku » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:11 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Taihei Tengoku wrote:Surely this will give the pampered US steel industry room to grow and not make it a complacent rent-seeker, which is exactly what happened the last time tariffs were a thing

I notice steel unions are overjoyed.

Our steel industry has to shoulders way higher costs for wages, taxes, environmental regulations and so on. Progressives love to clamp down on domestic ability to compete while crying about any interference with the free market when it comes to foreign competition

So uncompetitive only 70% of the US steel market is domestic ((((((((((((((((((((((

A tariff on steel, a homogenous, price-elastic input, will be passed on to steel users, which pass their price hits on the consumer, thus undermining the very protectionism you seek to create by making domestic products even pricier compared to foreign finished good. It astounds me how consistently you fail to think about anything else than moral posturing.

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:16 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:I notice steel unions are overjoyed.

Our steel industry has to shoulders way higher costs for wages, taxes, environmental regulations and so on. Progressives love to clamp down on domestic ability to compete while crying about any interference with the free market when it comes to foreign competition

So uncompetitive only 70% of the US steel market is domestic ((((((((((((((((((((((

A tariff on steel, a homogenous, price-elastic input, will be passed on to steel users, which pass their price hits on the consumer, thus undermining the very protectionism you seek to create by making domestic products even pricier compared to foreign finished good. It astounds me how consistently you fail to think about anything else than moral posturing.

I know it will raise the price of steel, so does Trump, who already stated as much. You know, if cheapness is all I cared about, I would advocate scrapping all environmental regulations, worker comp, child labor laws, etc. But I am not a mammon-worshipping fanatic liberal
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Taihei Tengoku
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Founded: Dec 15, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:19 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Taihei Tengoku wrote:So uncompetitive only 70% of the US steel market is domestic ((((((((((((((((((((((

A tariff on steel, a homogenous, price-elastic input, will be passed on to steel users, which pass their price hits on the consumer, thus undermining the very protectionism you seek to create by making domestic products even pricier compared to foreign finished good. It astounds me how consistently you fail to think about anything else than moral posturing.

I know it will raise the price of steel, so does Trump, who already stated as much. You know, if cheapness is all I cared about, I would advocate scrapping all environmental regulations, worker comp, child labor laws, etc. But I am not a mammon-worshipping fanatic liberal

When I masturbate I have the decency to do so in private.

If you cannot realize what paying more for your basic needs will do to your already meager income (for no gain in quality!) then perhaps it is inevitable you will always be duped.

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The Parkus Empire
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:22 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:I know it will raise the price of steel, so does Trump, who already stated as much. You know, if cheapness is all I cared about, I would advocate scrapping all environmental regulations, worker comp, child labor laws, etc. But I am not a mammon-worshipping fanatic liberal

When I masturbate I have the decency to do so in private.

If you cannot realize what paying more for your basic needs will do to your already meager income (for no gain in quality!) then perhaps it is inevitable you will always be duped.

Unless you're being paid to do it publicly, in which case regulation becomes oppressive

I can realize what paying 20% more for steel will do, thanks. It's not the Apocalypse
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:57 pm

If RWDT were Romans, who would they be?

TEM would be Germanicus, ridiculously pragmatically brutal to his enemies yet super lenient towards his own. Also I can completely hear him agreeing with "The only way we're going to win this war is by killing *all* of the Germans. =^^^^)"

UMN is Constantine the Great, ready to enforce morality and authority under an autocratic reign.

Sanct is Septimius Severus, the aggressive conqueror and rejuvenator.

Benuty is Joesphus, the esoteric academic.

Aillyria would be Claudius. Temper + unwillingness to suffer fools + supporter of the P E O P L E + traditional legalist

Lumi would be Antoninus Pius due to being the nice one who is inexplicably not a complete bastard but still here.

North Davincia would be Crassus. The richest man in Rome seldom needs introduction.

Parkus would be Cato the Younger.

I'm the Brothers Grachhi because I'm coming for your toothbrushes I'm Trajan because I want to rule the W O R L D and damn the cost I'm Julian because I support THE COMMONS and REPUBLICANISM and have facial hair
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The East Marches II
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Founded: Mar 11, 2017
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Postby The East Marches II » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:02 pm

GRACHI SUPPORTERS OUT

I had a sensible chuckle, that was good.
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The East Marches II
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Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:05 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:This article is a bit old (October of last year), but it's a very good critique of neocon imperialism: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... or-empire/


I am pained they bullied the Wall Street Journal editorial page tbh. I like to think they put good stuff out.
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