NationStates

Ostroeuropa wrote:I disagree. There's regressive islamophilia among many leftists. The term is used to decry non-interventionism too, much like railing against socialism is used to decry social democracy, doesn't mean socialism isn't a thing. It's just overused.

If regressive Islamophilia means that the U.S. abandons its imperialism toward the Islamic world, I am all for it.

Deads Heads wrote:I said that anti-sjws say Marxism is involved in regressive leftism, not how right or wrong of an interpretation of Marx it may be. It's the 'cultural marxism' epithet whose Marxism in any way at all I'm contesting. There is nothing distinct in Marx & Engels' writings compared to other socialists or non-socialist ideologues which would imply a specifically Marxist nature of any kind to 'regressive leftism' whose leftism is, too, not an actual, existent thing. It's a slander of leftism overall, as it's not primarily asserted by the left but the right.

Cultural Marxism is a meme which the far right picked up from Nazi Germany's cultural Bolshevism. It is simply an example of antisemitism.

Deads Heads wrote:

Aillyria wrote:How does this art have anything to do with our topic?

Just speculating on what might happen if things had gone a way they didn't and trying to find meaning to why things happened like they did.

Aillyria wrote:I'm not saying they're using literal marxism, but a warped interpretation of it. I'm familiar enough with Marxist theory (and the fact I'm socialist) that I'd never mistake Regressivism for actual Marxism.

I said that anti-sjws say Marxism is involved in regressive leftism, not how right or wrong of an interpretation of Marx it may be. It's the 'cultural marxism' epithet whose Marxism in any way at all I'm contesting. There is nothing distinct in Marx & Engels' writings compared to other socialists or non-socialist ideologues which would imply a specifically Marxist nature of any kind to 'regressive leftism' whose leftism is, too, not an actual, existent thing. It's a slander of leftism overall, as it's not primarily asserted by the left but the right.

There being leftists that buy into an anti-leftist meme is nothing new. It's called being an uncle Tom and everyone does it in their respective social group, including leftists.

Aillyria wrote:I have no idea wtf that is.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Althusser

Not really being an uncle tom for agreeing when outside criticism has a point. I'm mixed, and I hate BLM they are enemies of the black community. Samething, I'm socialist and I hate SJW-Regressivism because it hampers socialism and is our enemy.

The influence and interpretation is the important aspect, Regressivism is based on a misconception and corruption of Marxism, and socialism in general.

Aillyria wrote:Large faction of people who use that term aren't even right-wingers (like myself), and the term doesn't specifically attack opponents the campaigns you speak of. Who it does attack are the peddlers of this aberrant hybrid of liberalism and marxism, called Intersectionality. A socially backwards ideology that is an enemy of socialism and everything else.

That idea comes from left-wing populist propaganda. Left-wing populism is perhaps the most dangerous current which has confronted the Left since McCarthyism.

Intersectionality is not a hybrid of liberalism and Marxism. It was developed by the law professor, socialist, and proponent of critical race theory Kimberlé Crenshaw.

The Parkus Empire wrote:

The Widening Gyre wrote:
So plants and vacuum cleaners and ore and people are all used in the same way?

No, they are all exploited in different ways.

So examining and treating the exploitation of plants and humans as different cases is appropriate then. Glad you agree.

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:

Deads Heads wrote:I said that anti-sjws say Marxism is involved in regressive leftism, not how right or wrong of an interpretation of Marx it may be. It's the 'cultural marxism' epithet whose Marxism in any way at all I'm contesting. There is nothing distinct in Marx & Engels' writings compared to other socialists or non-socialist ideologues which would imply a specifically Marxist nature of any kind to 'regressive leftism' whose leftism is, too, not an actual, existent thing. It's a slander of leftism overall, as it's not primarily asserted by the left but the right.

Cultural Marxism is a meme which the far right picked up from Nazi Germany's cultural Bolshevism. It is simply an example of antisemitism.

No, it is referring to the SJW tendency to assert that all cultures no matter how backwards or not are equally valuable and should all be tolerated. Like the barbaric practices of my "fellow" muslims in the Midde East and Africa where they cut the genitalia of little girls, toss acid in women's faces, and charge rape victims with adultery. But no, these radicals are poor little victims we should let flood into the west and rape our women (western born female muslims too, btw). But nah, you criticize them you're a islamophobe, you criticize minorities "you're racist", criticize women "misogynist".

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:

Aillyria wrote:Large faction of people who use that term aren't even right-wingers (like myself), and the term doesn't specifically attack opponents the campaigns you speak of. Who it does attack are the peddlers of this aberrant hybrid of liberalism and marxism, called Intersectionality. A socially backwards ideology that is an enemy of socialism and everything else.

That idea comes from left-wing populist propaganda. Left-wing populism is perhaps the most dangerous current which has confronted the Left since McCarthyism.

Intersectionality is not a hybrid of liberalism and Marxism. It was developed by the law professor, socialist, and proponent of critical race theory Kimberlé Crenshaw.

There's no way a serious socialist could create that brain hemorrhage of a philosophy.

Aillyria wrote:< Is socialist
< opposes affirmative action (it's racists and sexist.)
< doesn't care what sex a videogame lead character is.

But the people who throw around 'SJW' most certainly do care about the gender of video game characters, and people on the internet actively label creators or companies' actions as being 'SJW' if they show insufficient indifference to issues like race, gender, politics and whatnot.

The Widening Gyre wrote:

Aillyria wrote:< Is socialist
< opposes affirmative action (it's racists and sexist.)
< doesn't care what sex a videogame lead character is.

But the people who throw around 'SJW' most certainly do care about the gender of video game characters, and people on the internet actively label creators or companies' actions as being 'SJW' if they show insufficient indifference to issues like race, gender, politics and whatnot.

They exceed in racebaiting and genderbaiting, that's why. Everything is sexist and racist for them, they're not able to see another reason for disparities, most of their disparities are imaginary to begin with (wage gap comes to mind).

Aillyria wrote:

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
That idea comes from left-wing populist propaganda. Left-wing populism is perhaps the most dangerous current which has confronted the Left since McCarthyism.

Intersectionality is not a hybrid of liberalism and Marxism. It was developed by the law professor, socialist, and proponent of critical race theory Kimberlé Crenshaw.

There's no way a serious socialist could create that brain hemorrhage of a philosophy.

I find it odd that you would say that when you use it to take down those "Sjw"s(Or at least polices that they would support).

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:I disagree. There's regressive islamophilia among many leftists. The term is used to decry non-interventionism too, much like railing against socialism is used to decry social democracy, doesn't mean socialism isn't a thing. It's just overused.

If regressive Islamophilia means that the U.S. abandons its imperialism toward the Islamic world, I am all for it.

Think it roughly means "let's turn Muslim world into shit and always be nice to them as they come here to get cheap labor who will vote for us".

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:

Deads Heads wrote:I said that anti-sjws say Marxism is involved in regressive leftism, not how right or wrong of an interpretation of Marx it may be. It's the 'cultural marxism' epithet whose Marxism in any way at all I'm contesting. There is nothing distinct in Marx & Engels' writings compared to other socialists or non-socialist ideologues which would imply a specifically Marxist nature of any kind to 'regressive leftism' whose leftism is, too, not an actual, existent thing. It's a slander of leftism overall, as it's not primarily asserted by the left but the right.

Cultural Marxism is a meme which the far right picked up from Nazi Germany's cultural Bolshevism. It is simply an example of antisemitism.

I know what that is.

Aillyria wrote:

Deads Heads wrote:Just speculating on what might happen if things had gone a way they didn't and trying to find meaning to why things happened like they did.


I said that anti-sjws say Marxism is involved in regressive leftism, not how right or wrong of an interpretation of Marx it may be. It's the 'cultural marxism' epithet whose Marxism in any way at all I'm contesting. There is nothing distinct in Marx & Engels' writings compared to other socialists or non-socialist ideologues which would imply a specifically Marxist nature of any kind to 'regressive leftism' whose leftism is, too, not an actual, existent thing. It's a slander of leftism overall, as it's not primarily asserted by the left but the right.

There being leftists that buy into an anti-leftist meme is nothing new. It's called being an uncle Tom and everyone does it in their respective social group, including leftists.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Althusser

Not really being an uncle tom for agreeing when outside criticism has a point. I'm mixed, and I hate BLM they are enemies of the black community. Samething, I'm socialist and I hate SJW-Regressivism because it hampers socialism and is our enemy.

The influence and interpretation is the important aspect, Regressivism is based on a misconception and corruption of Marxism, and socialism in general.

Do you even notice how you keep repeating the same shit over and over about interpretations of marxism and you being socialist? You mentioned both at least three or four times each.

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:

Aillyria wrote:Large faction of people who use that term aren't even right-wingers (like myself), and the term doesn't specifically attack opponents the campaigns you speak of. Who it does attack are the peddlers of this aberrant hybrid of liberalism and marxism, called Intersectionality. A socially backwards ideology that is an enemy of socialism and everything else.

That idea comes from left-wing populist propaganda. Left-wing populism is perhaps the most dangerous current which has confronted the Left since McCarthyism.

Intersectionality is not a hybrid of liberalism and Marxism. It was developed by the law professor, socialist, and proponent of critical race theory Kimberlé Crenshaw.

First of all, the left should've kept the successful tactics appropriated by the formerly moralistic and elitistic right, of which populism was one, as well as its amoralism and counter-cultural aspects that now are in the hands of the populistic right instead of taking the role as the elite, moralizing academic. The left could've used the same populism against far right intellectuals and showed them as the right that never changed its elitistic ways despite coming off as something alternative, which worked and works.

Second of all, what's dangerous to the left is the very alienation of your own people in the form of taking the roles the right had and which people didn't like as well as working against building a popular political left, which is another side of the coin.

Third of all, the western far left needs to get off its lazy ass and do that shit seeing how The Left^TM is currently unavailable, unable and unwilling to fix it. Get out of your study halls and political parties for the sake of having political parties and onto the street among the rabble. Talk to the rabble and listen to the rabble. Who knows, maybe the left might learn something from the rabble which they could apply to win the influence they squandered.

Aillyria wrote:

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Cultural Marxism is a meme which the far right picked up from Nazi Germany's cultural Bolshevism. It is simply an example of antisemitism.

No, it is referring to the SJW tendency to assert that all cultures no matter how backwards or not are equally valuable and should all be tolerated. Like the barbaric practices of my "fellow" muslims in the Midde East and Africa where they cut the genitalia of little girls, toss acid in women's faces, and charge rape victims with adultery. But no, these radicals are poor little victims we should let flood into the west and rape our women (western born female muslims too, btw). But nah, you criticize them you're a islamophobe, you criticize minorities "you're racist", criticize women "misogynist".

Now you're talking about cultural relativism, which is not what DCF was talking about. This is. Also, your snowflake tears are delicious.

Aillyria wrote:They exceed in racebaiting and genderbaiting, that's why. Everything is sexist and racist for them, they're not able to see another reason for disparities, most of their disparities are imaginary to begin with (wage gap comes to mind).

I'm talking about random content creators who happened to do things like have a female protagonist. Do you even realize how irrational this is all sounding?

Uiiop wrote:

Aillyria wrote:There's no way a serious socialist could create that brain hemorrhage of a philosophy.

I find it odd that you would say that when you use it to take down those "Sjw"s(Or at least polices that they would support).

What are you talking about? I've never stated I believe SJWs are socialist, because they aren't. I consider them socialist posers like DemSocs usually are.

Aillyria wrote:

Uiiop wrote:I find it odd that you would say that when you use it to take down those "Sjw"s(Or at least polices that they would support).

What are you talking about? I've never stated I believe SJWs are socialist, because they aren't. I consider them socialist posers like DemSocs usually are.

Big talk coming from someone whose socialism has never even been tried anywhere.

Aillyria wrote:

Uiiop wrote:I find it odd that you would say that when you use it to take down those "Sjw"s(Or at least polices that they would support).

What are you talking about? I've never stated I believe SJWs are socialist, because they aren't. I consider them socialist posers like DemSocs usually are.

Again, it's interesting that you keep falling back to the language of purity to describe 'SJW's in relation to socialism. Fits right into the idea of the concept being used as an identity policing mechanism.

Aillyria wrote:

Uiiop wrote:I find it odd that you would say that when you use it to take down those "Sjw"s(Or at least polices that they would support).

What are you talking about? I've never stated I believe SJWs are socialist, because they aren't. I consider them socialist posers like DemSocs usually are.

Would you say that racism and classism in affirmative action are interwoven? and if so are other prejudices and situations similarly interwoven with each other?

Deads Heads wrote:

Aillyria wrote:What are you talking about? I've never stated I believe SJWs are socialist, because they aren't. I consider them socialist posers like DemSocs usually are.

Big talk coming from someone whose socialism has never even been tried anywhere.

That's your argument.....seriously? Whether something has been tried or not doesn't decide if an idea has merit or is a terrible idea.

The Widening Gyre wrote:

Aillyria wrote:What are you talking about? I've never stated I believe SJWs are socialist, because they aren't. I consider them socialist posers like DemSocs usually are.

Again, it's interesting that you keep falling back to the language of purity to describe 'SJW's. Fits right into the idea of the concept being used as an identity policing mechanism.

Not really. If I were using it a policing mechanism I'd call all socialist or pseudo-socialist ideas I dissagree with SJW, which I don't. I've never even referred to DCF as an SJW and he is an Antifa member, BLM supporter, Intersectionality proponent, and a communist.

Uiiop wrote:

Aillyria wrote:What are you talking about? I've never stated I believe SJWs are socialist, because they aren't. I consider them socialist posers like DemSocs usually are.

Would you say that racism and classism in affirmative action are interwoven? and if so are other prejudices and situations similarly interwoven with each other?

No, not really.

Aillyria wrote:No, it is referring to the SJW tendency to assert that all cultures no matter how backwards or not are equally valuable and should all be tolerated. Like the barbaric practices of my "fellow" muslims in the Midde East and Africa where they cut the genitalia of little girls, toss acid in women's faces, and charge rape victims with adultery. But no, these radicals are poor little victims we should let flood into the west and rape our women (western born female muslims too, btw). But nah, you criticize them you're a islamophobe, you criticize minorities "you're racist", criticize women "misogynist".

I have no use, as an academic, for left-wing populist critiques of SJWs. However, as to the source of my statement on cultural Marxism, please consult:

Dialectic of Counter-Enlightenment: The Frankfurt School as Scapegoat of the Lunatic Fringe
Jay, Martin
Salmagundi. Saratoga Springs Issue 168/169, (Fall 2010): 30-40,249.

Edit: Here is one relevant quotation:

Jay Martin wrote:Although the process was foreshadowed in the 1960 's when Herbert Marcuse became the media's favorite "guru" of the New Left and was often portrayed in simple-minded terms, it wasn't really until a decade or so ago that the School as a whole entered the netherworld of garbled memedom, and began circulating in a wide variety of narratives, such as that promoted by Estulin and Castro. Most of these, to be sure, came from a very different political direction. Patrick Buchanan's 2001 best- selling screed against the nefarious impact of immigration , The Death of the West, was one major source, stigmatizing as it did the Frankfurt School for promoting "cultural Marxism" (a recycling of the old Weimar conservative charge of "cultural Bolshevism" aimed at aesthetic modernists). But the opening salvo had, in fact, been fired a decade earlier in a lengthy essay by one Michael Minnicino called "New Dark Age: Frankfurt School and 'Political Correctness' ," published in 1992 in the obscure journal Fidelio. Its provenance is particularly telling: it was an organ of the Lyndon Larouche movement cum cult, one of the less savory curiosities of nightmare fringe politics.

Aillyria wrote:

Uiiop wrote:Would you say that racism and classism in affirmative action are interwoven? and if so are other prejudices and situations similarly interwoven with each other?

No, not really.

Why not? A policy being two types of bigoted imply some sort of interaction and/or relation between those prejudices.

Aillyria wrote:There's no way a serious socialist could create that brain hemorrhage of a philosophy.

The fact that you don't like it doesn't address its source in African American socialism.

Deads Heads wrote:First of all, the left should've kept the successful tactics appropriated by the formerly moralistic and elitistic right, of which populism was one, as well as its amoralism and counter-cultural aspects that now are in the hands of the populistic right instead of taking the role as the elite, moralizing academic. The left could've used the same populism against far right intellectuals and showed them as the right that never changed its elitistic ways despite coming off as something alternative, which worked and works.

The academic Left, the only Left in which I am conversant, is very diverse. However, all academic Leftists I know would have serious problems with left-wing populism, which seems to be dominating this thread.

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The Widening Gyre wrote:

The Parkus Empire wrote:No, they are all exploited in different ways.

So examining and treating the exploitation of plants and humans as different cases is appropriate then. Glad you agree.

They are exploited in different ways, natch. Both are still exploitable resources

Aillyria wrote:I've never even referred to DCF as an SJW and he is an Antifa member, BLM supporter, Intersectionality proponent, and a communist.

I have no problem being addressed using the common left-wing-populist term social justice warrior — although I recognize it as a smear. Why would any leftist not fight for social justice? I mean, isn't fighting for social justice a key part of being left-wing? Without fighting for social justice, the left abandons critical theory (that is to say, the blending of theory and praxis) and is, in fact, no longer the Left.

Yet, to me, fighting for social justice is a highly effective tactic but not particularly useful as a strategy.

The Multiversal Communist Collective wrote:

Aillyria wrote:SJW is a generalized term to refer to regressive so-called "leftists" and "socialists", it's not really Trump thing.....maybe a kekistani thing though. I like the kekies, personally.

The term regressive left is nothing more than a smear campaign by a few human hybrids of progressivism and neoconservatism. It is meant, primarily, to attack the fact that many Leftists, myself included, do not support imperialist campaigns of so-called liberation in certain predominantly Muslim countries.

It's called liberalism and it's not a hybrid of progressivism and neo-conservatism. Progressivism and neo-conservatism are hybrids from it.