Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Alvecia]

Presumably those in power. Bring the ups down and the downs up. It was just an off the cuff example, don't read too much into it.

We can break it down to a basic example.

You empathetically believe that person A, who is not equal to yourself and person B, should indeed be.
The only way to bring said person up, in this hypothetical, is to kill person B.
So you do so.

Now, I think we'd agree it's more than a bit of a dick move, but your killing of person B has not removed, reduced, or diminshed your empathetic belief in equality for Person A

How is than more empathetic than hierarchy…?

I don't know about more or less, but it is empathetic

[Asherahan]

Why is equality desirable?

Because if say someone was above me I would try to stab him in the back and take his place?

[The Snazzylands]

Can you be more specific with what kind of equality?

I do not know, you tell me, since left vs. right is often defined as pro equality vs pro hierarchy.

Taking Marxism vs Neo-Liberalism for example, I'd say that only extends to the institution they support. The way I see it, the right-wing ideology supports systems that have institutionalized hierarchies wherein power is implicitly biased towards a certain group (namely class), while rejecting the existence of said hierarchy, attempting to legitimize it, and/or muddying the waters with identity politics.

The left-wing ideology supports "official" equality for everyone, with hierarchies emerging naturally as a result of individuals' talent, merit, and social status. Though the distribution of political power wouldn't be truly "equal," in the traditional sense, at least it wouldn't systematically fall into the hands of whoever happens to be the best at accumulating capital. Furthermore, in contrast to the right, its ideological structures seek to draw attention to existing social and economic inequalities, like advocating for women's rights or openly pursuing the economic interests of the working class.

So?

Mass murder is typically considered a bad thing.

Nice moral argument lmao

[Tekeristan]

Truly bestowing the divine right of death upon kings, eh?

[Alvecia]

Presumably those in power. Bring the ups down and the downs up. It was just an off the cuff example, don't read too much into it.

We can break it down to a basic example.

You empathetically believe that person A, who is not equal to yourself and person B, should indeed be.
The only way to bring said person up, in this hypothetical, is to kill person B.
So you do so.

Now, I think we'd agree it's more than a bit of a dick move, but your killing of person B has not removed, reduced, or diminshed your empathetic belief in equality for Person A

How is than more empathetic than hierarchy…?

Actually, could you elaborate on that? How are hierarchies themselves empathetic?

[Tekeristan]

How is than more empathetic than hierarchy…?

Actually, could you elaborate on that? How are hierarchies themselves empathetic?

It's empathetic as long as I'm on top. ^~^

[Asherahan]

Actually, could you elaborate on that? How are hierarchies themselves empathetic?

It's empathetic as long as I'm on top. ^~^

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Now there is an exception to the rule. And you don't seem the kind to be a fanatic that puts thousands to the death squad for his religion or ideology.

[The Snazzylands]

It's empathetic as long as I'm on top. ^~^

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Now there is an exception to the rule. And you don't seem the kind to be a fanatic that puts thousands to the death squad for his religion or ideology.

They never do, at first. That's how they get into power.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Is anyone here actively organized or organizing? Was wondering because I'm genuinely curious whether everyone on Nationstates is an armchair activist or not. I'm actually part of a strongly socdem party myself, me and my buds went in trying to radicalize, but I'm pessimistic about it.

I belong to numerous communist groups, including rs21: revolutionary socialism in the 21ˢᵗ century.

[The Parkus Empire]

Why is equality desirable?

Because if say someone was above me I would try to stab him in the back and take his place?

This is not a sound principle for morality, let alone a political ideology.

[The Parkus Empire]

How is than more empathetic than hierarchy…?

I don't know about more or less, but it is empathetic

Not unless you think flourishing can be achieved through mass murder, which is dubious at best.

[Asherahan]

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Now there is an exception to the rule. And you don't seem the kind to be a fanatic that puts thousands to the death squad for his religion or ideology.

They never do, at first. That's how they get into power.

All the fanatic leaders I know killed a lot of people.

[Alvecia]

I don't know about more or less, but it is empathetic

Not unless you think flourishing can be achieved through mass murder, which is dubious at best.

No-one ever claimed humans were logically consistent.

[Asherahan]

Because if say someone was above me I would try to stab him in the back and take his place?

This is not a sound principle for morality, let alone a political ideology.

Its called Realpolitik someone is always out to get you and history has proven it again and again.

We already solved the problem though and called it representative democracy.

[The Parkus Empire]

I do not know, you tell me, since left vs. right is often defined as pro equality vs pro hierarchy.

Taking Marxism vs Neo-Liberalism for example, I'd say that only extends to the institution they support. The way I see it, the right-wing ideology supports systems that have institutionalized hierarchies wherein power is implicitly biased towards a certain group (namely class), while rejecting the existence of said hierarchy, attempting to legitimize it, and/or muddying the waters with identity politics.

The left-wing ideology supports "official" equality for everyone, with hierarchies emerging naturally as a result of individuals' talent, merit, and social status. Though the distribution of political power wouldn't be truly "equal," in the traditional sense, at least it wouldn't systematically fall into the hands of whoever happens to be the best at accumulating capital. Furthermore, in contrast to the right, its ideological structures seek to draw attention to existing social and economic inequalities, like advocating for women's rights or openly pursuing the economic interests of the working class.

Mass murder is typically considered a bad thing.

Nice moral argument lmao

I am a classical conservatuve, so I do not wish to muddy hierarchy, but rather show it boldly.

[MERIZoC]

Why is equality desirable?

V E I L O F I G N O R A N C E

and basic empathy

[The Parkus Empire]

This is not a sound principle for morality, let alone a political ideology.

Its called Realpolitik someone is always out to get you and history has proven it again and again.

We already solved the problem though and called it representative democracy.

Representative democracy solves what problem?

[The Parkus Empire]

Why is equality desirable?

V E I L O F I G N O R A N C E

and basic empathy

Already went over the empathy thing.

[The Snazzylands]

Taking Marxism vs Neo-Liberalism for example, I'd say that only extends to the institution they support. The way I see it, the right-wing ideology supports systems that have institutionalized hierarchies wherein power is implicitly biased towards a certain group (namely class), while rejecting the existence of said hierarchy, attempting to legitimize it, and/or muddying the waters with identity politics.

The left-wing ideology supports "official" equality for everyone, with hierarchies emerging naturally as a result of individuals' talent, merit, and social status. Though the distribution of political power wouldn't be truly "equal," in the traditional sense, at least it wouldn't systematically fall into the hands of whoever happens to be the best at accumulating capital. Furthermore, in contrast to the right, its ideological structures seek to draw attention to existing social and economic inequalities, like advocating for women's rights or openly pursuing the economic interests of the working class.


Nice moral argument lmao

I am a classical conservatuve, so I do not wish to muddy hierarchy, but rather show it boldly.

... and attempt to legitimize it.

[Alvecia]

V E I L O F I G N O R A N C E

and basic empathy

Already went over the empathy thing.

You've tried, certainly. But I wouldn't say you've really laid out your point in an understandable manner as of yet.

[Asherahan]

Its called Realpolitik someone is always out to get you and history has proven it again and again.

We already solved the problem though and called it representative democracy.

Representative democracy solves what problem?

Getting stabbed in the back by ambitious usurpers.

[MERIZoC]

V E I L O F I G N O R A N C E

and basic empathy

Already went over the empathy thing.

And youre wrong lol?

[The Parkus Empire]

I am a classical conservatuve, so I do not wish to muddy hierarchy, but rather show it boldly.

... and attempt to legitimize it.

Not really. Hierarchy's purpose is to help society flourish, each class doesn't exist for itself, but for society as a whole. Individualist conservatism perverts this.

[Tekeristan]

... and attempt to legitimize it.

Not really. Hierarchy's purpose is to help society flourish, each class doesn't exist for itself, but for society as a whole. Individualist conservatism perverts this.

Functionalism?

[Alvecia]

... and attempt to legitimize it.

Not really. Hierarchy's purpose is to help society flourish, each class doesn't exist for itself, but for society as a whole. Individualist conservatism perverts this.

So what you're saying is that hierarchy would be perfect if it didn't have any flaws?