Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

Does any body have thoughts on universal basic income?

[Aillyria]

Does any body have thoughts on universal basic income?

Terrible idea.

[-Ocelot-]

Does any body have thoughts on universal basic income?

Terrible idea.

You should also explain why you think it's a terrible idea.

[The Parkus Empire]

Does any body have thoughts on universal basic income?

I do not like it. Why should tax money go to buying drugs?

[El Hamidah]

The anti theism of Marx (and other Left wing philosophers like Bakunin) makes no fucking sense anyway. It serves no purpose, adds nothing to the ideas and if one didn't agree with it and agreed with everything else in Marx's writings, it would change nothing.

It makes perfect sense given where and when Marx and Bakunin were writing from.

They could have just aimed it against the orthodoxies of the time, supported secularism and left it at that.

Most of the working class at that time was religious anyway.

[Aillyria]

Terrible idea.

You should also explain why you think it's a terrible idea.

It's inefficient and will bog down the economy with unnecessary spending for no benefit to society. I don't fancy giving people free money indefinitely. That policy would be worse than current welfare and would encourage leeching.

[The Widening Gyre]

They could have just aimed it against the orthodoxies of the time, supported secularism and left it at that.

'Laissez faire' secularism wasn't really a thing yet, especially prior to 1848.

Most of the working class at that time was religious anyway.

Which was exactly the thing that Marx talked about with the 'opium of the people' line.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Does any body have thoughts on universal basic income?

The idea of a universal basic income is predicated on capitalists paying workers. As a communist, I want the means of production to be owned by the workers themselves. Then a universal basic income will become an oxymoron.

[Liriena]

Does any body have thoughts on universal basic income?

As a long-term policy? If your ultimate goal is not the end of capitalism, but merely its transformation into a more humane and egalitarian version of itself, it makes sense. It will get the job done, insofar as giving all people at least a larger modicum of starting equity in the economic system, and a more realistic opportunity to compete with real, practical liberty, without the threat of inhuman misery looming over every decision.

I'd support it, as a way of helping people right now and at least add a bit of true equal opportunity to the economic system for as long as it continues to exist as it is.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I do not like it. Why should tax money go to buying drugs?

What about buying food and paying rent?

[Northern Davincia]

I do not like it. Why should tax money go to buying drugs?

What about buying food and paying rent?

Easy, you work for it.

[Kubra]

The anti theism of Marx (and other Left wing philosophers like Bakunin) makes no fucking sense anyway. It serves no purpose, adds nothing to the ideas and if one didn't agree with it and agreed with everything else in Marx's writings, it would change nothing.

To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions

[Aillyria]

What about buying food and paying rent?

Easy, you work for it.

I agree with this.

[United Muscovite Nations]

What about buying food and paying rent?

Easy, you work for it.

This would be easier if you just had a central authority which everyone both worked for and received their livelihood from.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Easy, you work for it.

Sounds like a good U.S. Republican, UK Tory, or Israeli Likud (Hebrew, לִּיכּוּד, Lliykūḏ) talking point.

[Northern Davincia]

Easy, you work for it.

This would be easier if you just had a central authority which everyone both worked for and received their livelihood from.

A boss? There's plenty of those around, mi amigo.

Easy, you work for it.

Sounds like a good U.S. Republican, UK Tory, or Israeli Likud (Hebrew, לִּיכּוּד, Lliykūḏ) talking point.

Some talking points stick around because they're true.

[Major-Tom]

Does any body have thoughts on universal basic income?

Fiscally irresponsible. It could only work if welfare wasn't a thing, but then that would never happen, and even if it somehow did, it could still create loads of issues. I lean left, but am very very much against the idea of a universal basic income.

[Aillyria]

Easy, you work for it.

Sounds like a good U.S. Republican, UK Tory, or Israeli Likud (Hebrew, לִּיכּוּד, Lliykūḏ) talking point.

Why is this a negative thing? Socialism is for workers, not loafers.

[Liriena]

What about buying food and paying rent?

Easy, you work for it.

But why? There's lots of unused housing available and we overproduce food???

[Liriena]

Does any body have thoughts on universal basic income?

I do not like it. Why should tax money go to buying drugs?

If that was a genuine concern of yours, you'd be opposed to your taxes subsidizing the upper class' own notorious drug habits through corporate welfare and tax cuts.

But hey, we shouldn't let such thoughts take us away from our poor-people-bashing with filthy stereotypes.

[Northern Davincia]

Easy, you work for it.

But why? There's lots of unused housing available and we overproduce food???

Because parasitism must not be given the impression that it is acceptable.

[Liriena]

But why? There's lots of unused housing available and we overproduce food???

Because parasitism must not be given the impression that it is acceptable.

But why?

Also, if that was an honest concern, you should hate the guts of every rich douchebag who only got rich due to inheritance. And pretty much the entire capitalist class, really.

[The Widening Gyre]

Does any body have thoughts on universal basic income?

There are lots of different UBI proposals, ranging from the grossly unrealistic to the pointless and down to actively counterproductive, depending on the magnitude of the scheme. Which one are you thinking of?

[Northern Davincia]

Because parasitism must not be given the impression that it is acceptable.

But why?

Also, if that was an honest concern, you should hate the guts of every rich douchebag who only got rich due to inheritance. And pretty much the entire capitalist class, really.

Those who are rich from the work of their parents are not parasites, otherwise said parents would have done something else with their fortunes. As for everyone else, the parasite does nothing to earn food or shelter. They have no legitimate right to access those resources. Wage theft ain't real by the way.

[Liriena]

Because parasitism must not be given the impression that it is acceptable.

But why?

Seriously. We clearly don't need every human being on Earth to have a full-time job, given how we current have about 5,7% unemployment worldwide, and we somehow manage to collectively have, as a civilization, more than enough money, food, water and housing available for everyone. Clearly, scarcity is not an issue, so what gives?