Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Aillyria]

I will have to keep that in mind.

I'm sure people around you probably do.

That's just a matter of opinion.

From the perspective of people who don't like homophobia, blasphemy laws, and authoritarianism. Which should probably be this thread.

Authoritarianism produced the greatest civilizations in human history, ones that produced monuments that survive millenia and the very philosophical currents we debate here. When liberal capitalism crumbles under its own immorality......and believe me it will, it will disappear from history, having made no meaningful benefit to human ethics or sprituality.

[The Parkus Empire]

It is hard to understand how morality should not factor into foreign policy except it should.

You said "as a weapon."

Why would we use a weapons on our bros?

[Crysuko]

I'm sure people around you probably do.

From the perspective of people who don't like homophobia, blasphemy laws, and authoritarianism. Which should probably be this thread.

Authoritarianism produced the greatest civilizations in human history, ones that produced monuments that survive millenia and the very philosophical currents we debate here. When liberal capitalism crumbles under its own immorality......and believe me it will, it will disappear from history, having made no meaningful benefit to human ethics or sprituality.

Spirituality belongs in the bin anyway. Dialectic materialism all the way.

[Aillyria]

Authoritarianism produced the greatest civilizations in human history, ones that produced monuments that survive millenia and the very philosophical currents we debate here. When liberal capitalism crumbles under its own immorality......and believe me it will, it will disappear from history, having made no meaningful benefit to human ethics or sprituality.

Spirituality belongs in the bin anyway. Dialectic materialism all the way.

Dialect materialism...like all materialism is the death of human morality and ethics.

[The Parkus Empire]

Authoritarianism produced the greatest civilizations in human history, ones that produced monuments that survive millenia and the very philosophical currents we debate here. When liberal capitalism crumbles under its own immorality......and believe me it will, it will disappear from history, having made no meaningful benefit to human ethics or sprituality.

Spirituality belongs in the bin anyway. Dialectic materialism all the way.

Daily reminder that New Left is crypto-idealism

[Democratic Communist Federation]

The Koch brothers tend to call corporatist countries such as the Nordic democracies "socialist." they aren't corporatists.

I agree. They are the very definition of crony capitalism.

[Crysuko]

Spirituality belongs in the bin anyway. Dialectic materialism all the way.

Dialect materialism...like all materialism is the death of human morality and ethics.

Only if you subscribe to the notion that morality comes from a deity

Spirituality belongs in the bin anyway. Dialectic materialism all the way.

Daily reminder that New Left is crypto-idealism

If only I were new left

[War Gears]

Authoritarianism produced the greatest civilizations in human history,

Not really. Authoritarian regimes such as Fascist Italy, Soviet Russia, and Pinochet's Chile have been total failures for the most part, having failed to achieve any lasting change.

ones that produced monuments that survive millenia and the very philosophical currents we debate here.

Sorel and Marx would certainly disagree with you. So would literally all anarchist thinkers.

Most philosophical currents were created by men outside of the state who sometimes experienced persecution as a result.

When liberal capitalism crumbles under its own immorality......

"It's totally going to fall guys, just you wait and see!" reactionaries and socialists should just fuck already.

having made no meaningful benefit to human ethics or sprituality.

Neither will Islamic countries.

[The Parkus Empire]

Dialect materialism...like all materialism is the death of human morality and ethics.

Only if you subscribe to the notion that morality comes from a deity

Daily reminder that New Left is crypto-idealism

If only I were new left

I know you ain't, new left does not care about wiping out religion

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Spirituality belongs in the bin anyway. Dialectic materialism all the way.

The late Roy Bhaskar resolved that contradiction through his philosophy of metaReality.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Authoritarianism produced the greatest civilizations in human history,

Not really. Authoritarian regimes such as Fascist Italy, Soviet Russia, and Pinochet's Chile have been total failures for the most part, having failed to achieve any lasting change.

ones that produced monuments that survive millenia and the very philosophical currents we debate here.

Sorel and Marx would certainly disagree with you. So would literally all anarchist thinkers.

Most philosophical currents were created by men outside of the state who sometimes experienced persecution as a result.

When liberal capitalism crumbles under its own immorality......

"It's totally going to fall guys, just you wait and see!" reactionaries and socialists should just fuck already.

having made no meaningful benefit to human ethics or sprituality.

Neither will Islamic countries.

Most of human history has been under authoritarian rule.

Islam has made a great deal in terms of religious contribution to the world.

[War Gears]

Authoritarianism produced the greatest civilizations in human history, ones that produced monuments that survive millenia and the very philosophical currents we debate here. When liberal capitalism crumbles under its own immorality......and believe me it will, it will disappear from history, having made no meaningful benefit to human ethics or sprituality.

Spirituality belongs in the bin anyway. Dialectic materialism all the way.

Nah, I like my spirituality.

Most of human history has been under authoritarian rule.

Not really. It wasn't democratic, but I'm not sure "authoritarianism" applies to premodern societies.

Islam has made a great deal in terms of religious contribution to the world.

By trying to wipe out most other faiths.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Spirituality belongs in the bin anyway. Dialectic materialism all the way.

Nah, I like my spirituality.

Most of human history has been under authoritarian rule.

Not really. It wasn't democratic, but I'm not sure "authoritarianism" applies to premodern societies.

Islam has made a great deal in terms of religious contribution to the world.

By trying to wipe out most other faiths.

So, absolute monarchy and feudalism aren't authoritarian systems?

[Conserative Morality]

Nah, I like my spirituality.

Not really. It wasn't democratic, but I'm not sure "authoritarianism" applies to premodern societies.


By trying to wipe out most other faiths.

So, absolute monarchy and feudalism aren't authoritarian systems?

Absolute monarchy is a comparatively recent development, feudalism restricted to narrow regions and eras.

[Crysuko]

Only if you subscribe to the notion that morality comes from a deity


If only I were new left

I know you ain't, new left does not care about wiping out religion

[The Parkus Empire]

Spirituality belongs in the bin anyway. Dialectic materialism all the way.

The late Roy Bhaskar resolved that contradiction through his philosophy of metaReality.

Plotinus came up with that.

[Aillyria]

Authoritarianism produced the greatest civilizations in human history,

Not really. Authoritarian regimes such as Fascist Italy, Soviet Russia, and Pinochet's Chile have been total failures for the most part, having failed to achieve any lasting change.

ones that produced monuments that survive millenia and the very philosophical currents we debate here.

Sorel and Marx would certainly disagree with you. So would literally all anarchist thinkers.

Most philosophical currents were created by men outside of the state who sometimes experienced persecution as a result.

When liberal capitalism crumbles under its own immorality......

"It's totally going to fall guys, just you wait and see!" reactionaries and socialists should just fuck already.

having made no meaningful benefit to human ethics or sprituality.

Neither will Islamic countries.

1.) Most of those were shortlived, saved for the USSR.....and even then the Soviets made great strides in physics and astronomy. But I was referring to much older empires like Rome and China's various dynasties, the Russian Empire under Peter the Great, Prussia under Fredrick the Great, France under Napoléon I.....etc.

2.) That's nice? I'm not an anarchist......

3.) Ok.....I wouldn't describe myself as a reactionary, but I definitely wouldn't have issue with an alliance between socialism and relgious conservatives. In fact, I'd welcome it.

4.) Sorry, the Old caliphates already did, lol.

[Conserative Morality]

1.) Most of those were shortlived, saved for the USSR.....and even then the Soviets made great strides in physics and astronomy. But I was referring to much older empires like Rome and China's various dynasties, the Russian Empire under Peter the Great, Prussia under Fredrick the Great, France under Napoléon I.....etc.

Rome was a bastion of libertas, Peter and Frederick the Great were liberal reformers, and Napoleon was a son of the French Revolution at heart. Hardly the standard bearers of authoritarianism.

[Crysuko]

Not really. Authoritarian regimes such as Fascist Italy, Soviet Russia, and Pinochet's Chile have been total failures for the most part, having failed to achieve any lasting change.


Sorel and Marx would certainly disagree with you. So would literally all anarchist thinkers.

Most philosophical currents were created by men outside of the state who sometimes experienced persecution as a result.


"It's totally going to fall guys, just you wait and see!" reactionaries and socialists should just fuck already.


Neither will Islamic countries.

1.) Most of those were shortlived, saved for the USSR.....and even then the Soviets made great strides in physics and astronomy. But I was referring to much older empires like Rome and China's various dynasties, the Russian Empire under Peter the Great, Prussia under Fredrick the Great, France under Napoléon I.....etc.

2.) That's nice? I'm not an anarchist......

3.) Ok.....I wouldn't describe myself as a reactionary, but I definitely wouldn't have issue with an alliance between socialism and relgious conservatives. In fact, I'd welcome it.

4.) Sorry, the Old caliphates already did, lol.

An alliance between socialists and conservatives is like an alliance between oil and water

1.) Most of those were shortlived, saved for the USSR.....and even then the Soviets made great strides in physics and astronomy. But I was referring to much older empires like Rome and China's various dynasties, the Russian Empire under Peter the Great, Prussia under Fredrick the Great, France under Napoléon I.....etc.

Rome was a bastion of libertas, Peter and Frederick the Great were liberal reformers, and Napoleon was a son of the French Revolution at heart. Hardly the standard bearers of authoritarianism.

Is that why rome was a bloated, beauracratic dictatorship, the russian empire was a despotic luddite state and Napolean went on a conqering spree across Europe?

[Conserative Morality]

An alliance between socialists and conservatives is like an alliance between oil and water

She might like Bismarck, whose response to socialism was to beat them at their own game.

Is that why rome was a bloated, beauracratic dictatorship,

I blame Christianity.

the russian empire was a despotic luddite state

Peter the Great opposed such backwardness. He was a reformer and a westernizer.

and Napolean went on a conqering spree across Europe?

He spread the Revolution by cannon and bayonet. =^)

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Plotinus came up with that.

Bhaskar was not much of a Neoplatonic idealist. He was a critical (indirect) realist. His philosophy of metaReality was an attempt to resolve (to absent in Bhaskar's words) the Marxian dialectic through something like advaitic (nondual) Vedanta. Essentially, Bhaskar, a professor of philosophy at the University of London, went back to his roots in India and combined his Marxian realism with Eastern spirituality.

The result: He lost some of his more hardline Marxist supporters (not me, obviously) and gained many new ones. However, he remained a libertarian Marxist, a product of the British New Left, through and through - just a very innovative one.

[The Parkus Empire]

1.) Most of those were shortlived, saved for the USSR.....and even then the Soviets made great strides in physics and astronomy. But I was referring to much older empires like Rome and China's various dynasties, the Russian Empire under Peter the Great, Prussia under Fredrick the Great, France under Napoléon I.....etc.

Rome was a bastion of libertas, Peter and Frederick the Great were liberal reformers, and Napoleon was a son of the French Revolution at heart. Hardly the standard bearers of authoritarianism.

Peter the Great greatly increased serfdom, Napoleon brought back slavery.

[War Gears]

and even then the Soviets made great strides in physics and astronomy.

While silencing people who proposed theories that they considered "idealist" or "revisionist," believing in pseudo-science such as Lysenkoism, and trying to completely eradicate religion. Things which tend to be a problem when you conflate science with ideology like they did. Their success in those fields had more to do with the fact that they, like the US, had more resources than most other countries.

But I was referring to much older empires like Rome

Which was better under the Republican period. Most of the Caesar's (Tiberius, Caligula, Nero, etc.) were completely insane or power hungry rather than actually concerned about ruling.

the Russian Empire under Peter the Great, Prussia under Fredrick the Great, France under Napoléon I.....etc.

All of these were monarchs influenced by liberal ideas, Napoleon planned for his son to be a constitutional monarch.

2.) That's nice? I'm not an anarchist......

and the very philosophical currents we debate here.

[Northern Davincia]

Pinochet's Chile

Heh, very funny.

The Koch brothers tend to call corporatist countries such as the Nordic democracies "socialist." they aren't corporatists.

I agree. They are the very definition of crony capitalism.

The Koch brothers have done nothing wrong ever.

[The Parkus Empire]

Peter the Great was a wicked tyrant. Alexander II was the actual good Czar, but he will never be recognized in the west because he did not try to abolish Slavic culture