Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Proctopeo]

when every man is a king, syndicalism won't need to exist

>when

If you share the wealth hard enough in a way that's not socialist, left-wing ideologies lose a leg to stand on

[Crysuko]

>when

If you share the wealth hard enough in a way that's not socialist, left-wing ideologies lose a leg to stand on

As long as production for exchange and extraction of labour value exists, so too will the left.

[Proctopeo]

If you share the wealth hard enough in a way that's not socialist, left-wing ideologies lose a leg to stand on

As long as production for exchange and extraction of labour value exists, so too will the left.

Just likely as a shadow of its former self.
Socialism would likely still exist in such a situation, but weaker, with communism and its like even more on the fringes than normally.

[War Gears]

Who cares what Egoists think.

All nominalists obviously should.

That would be news to Dharmakīrti.

[Crysuko]

As long as production for exchange and extraction of labour value exists, so too will the left.

Just likely as a shadow of its former self.
Socialism would likely still exist in such a situation, but weaker, with communism and its like even more on the fringes than normally.

You say, with the UK labour party sliding further left and essentially slowly turning DemSoc, with more and more Americans becoming disenfranchsied with the government and picking up leftist politics as a result. Dig a little, the left is alive and well. You just refuse to see it.

[Proctopeo]

Just likely as a shadow of its former self.
Socialism would likely still exist in such a situation, but weaker, with communism and its like even more on the fringes than normally.

You say, with the UK labour party sliding further left and essentially slowly turning DemSoc, with more and more Americans becoming disenfranchsied with the government and picking up leftist politics as a result. Dig a little, the left is alive and well. You just refuse to see it.

I'm speaking about a hypothetical situation where Huey Long became president and shared the wealth.
If you notice, communism is still quite the unpopular thing in the United States. Can't say the same about the former colonial overlords, though.
Also note that the further reaches of the right are getting popularity from disenfranchisement.

[Crysuko]

You say, with the UK labour party sliding further left and essentially slowly turning DemSoc, with more and more Americans becoming disenfranchsied with the government and picking up leftist politics as a result. Dig a little, the left is alive and well. You just refuse to see it.

I'm speaking about a hypothetical situation where Huey Long became president and shared the wealth.
If you notice, communism is still quite the unpopular thing in the United States. Can't say the same about the former colonial overlords, though.
Also note that the further reaches of the right are getting popularity from disenfranchisement.

Wrong, stalinism is unpopular. Libertarian socialism and anarchism don't have quite the same stain, indeed the IWW are still active in their agenda. And the right are a shambles, making no attempt to actually organise. The whole "unite the right" thing in the US ended up being a complete farce. The right makes a lot of noise, but it's just that. Noise. In western Europe there are no far right parties that the majority of people take seriously.

[Proctopeo]

I'm speaking about a hypothetical situation where Huey Long became president and shared the wealth.
If you notice, communism is still quite the unpopular thing in the United States. Can't say the same about the former colonial overlords, though.
Also note that the further reaches of the right are getting popularity from disenfranchisement.

Wrong, stalinism is unpopular. Libertarian socialism and anarchism don't have quite the same stain, indeed the IWW are still active in their agenda. And the right are a shambles, making no attempt to actually organise. The whole "unite the right" thing in the US ended up being a complete farce. The right makes a lot of noise, but it's just that. Noise. In western Europe there are no far right parties that the majority of people take seriously.

And that's why the IWW doesn't even have ten thousand members, and the CPUSA can't either?
The far right is weaker and smaller, but I wouldn't doubt the power of the more moderate right-wing.

[Crysuko]

Wrong, stalinism is unpopular. Libertarian socialism and anarchism don't have quite the same stain, indeed the IWW are still active in their agenda. And the right are a shambles, making no attempt to actually organise. The whole "unite the right" thing in the US ended up being a complete farce. The right makes a lot of noise, but it's just that. Noise. In western Europe there are no far right parties that the majority of people take seriously.

And that's why the IWW doesn't even have ten thousand members, and the CPUSA can't either?
The far right is weaker and smaller, but I wouldn't doubt the power of the more moderate right-wing.

Quality>quantity. And the moderate right isn't exactly a powerhouse either. there's the republican party in the US which has huge PR issues, the conservative party in the UK which has machine gunned itself in the foot recently, Marine Le Pen in France who suffered a truly embarresing defeat to a NeoLib. Trust me, the right isn't exactly brimming with political clout.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

The french revolution was great, only constitutional monarchys are good.

[Proctopeo]

And that's why the IWW doesn't even have ten thousand members, and the CPUSA can't either?
The far right is weaker and smaller, but I wouldn't doubt the power of the more moderate right-wing.

Quality>quantity. And the moderate right isn't exactly a powerhouse either. there's the republican party in the US which has huge PR issues, the conservative party in the UK which has machine gunned itself in the foot recently, Marine Le Pen in France who suffered a truly embarresing defeat to a NeoLib. Trust me, the right isn't exactly brimming with political clout.

Quality is meaningless when your numbers are too small to be even a footnote, though.
America is also home to a political party without quality and lacking in quantity

[Crysuko]

Quality>quantity. And the moderate right isn't exactly a powerhouse either. there's the republican party in the US which has huge PR issues, the conservative party in the UK which has machine gunned itself in the foot recently, Marine Le Pen in France who suffered a truly embarresing defeat to a NeoLib. Trust me, the right isn't exactly brimming with political clout.

Quality is meaningless when your numbers are too small to be even a footnote, though.
America is also home to a political party without quality and lacking in quantity

if you did a little bit of research you'd know that it was the presence of IWW members that helped sabotage the unite the right rally, along with Antifa and assorted union members.

[Proctopeo]

Quality is meaningless when your numbers are too small to be even a footnote, though.
America is also home to a political party without quality and lacking in quantity

if you did a little bit of research you'd know that it was the presence of IWW members that helped sabotage the unite the right rally, along with Antifa and assorted union members.

When you have to collude with almost-terrorists-but-not-quite-because-they're-poorly-organized-but-they-still-do-acts-of-terror-so-whatever, you're not as strong as you think you are.

[Crysuko]

if you did a little bit of research you'd know that it was the presence of IWW members that helped sabotage the unite the right rally, along with Antifa and assorted union members.

When you have to collude with almost-terrorists-but-not-quite-because-they're-poorly-organized-but-they-still-do-acts-of-terror-so-whatever, you're not as strong as you think you are.

When you have to use two bit ad hominems, you're not as strong as you think you are.

[Proctopeo]

When you have to collude with almost-terrorists-but-not-quite-because-they're-poorly-organized-but-they-still-do-acts-of-terror-so-whatever, you're not as strong as you think you are.

When you have to use two bit ad hominems, you're not as strong as you think you are.

[Northern Davincia]

Then I take it your pastime is breaking windows?

Machiavellian though he was, he wasn't 'bad'.

A: ad hominem, not an argument
B: he ordered atrocities to happen and brutally crushed anyone who opposed him, yes he fecking was.

1. Antifa isn't doing much besides petty vandalism.
2. Yet he left Spain a better place than when he had found it (so to speak).

[Crysuko]

A: ad hominem, not an argument
B: he ordered atrocities to happen and brutally crushed anyone who opposed him, yes he fecking was.

1. Antifa isn't doing much besides petty vandalism.
2. Yet he left Spain a better place than when he had found it (so to speak).

making sweeping generalisations doesn't help your case much. Also, if he did such a fantastic job then why did Spain flip to democratic after he died? Is it perhaps because he drove anyone who wasnt't explicitly fascist underground. Even conservatives got the short end of the stick if they didn't bow down.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The french revolution was great, only constitutional monarchys are good.

No, it's pretty much responsible for the destruction of religion in France.

[Crysuko]

The french revolution was great, only constitutional monarchys are good.

No, it's pretty much responsible for the destruction of religion in France.

And that's terrible.

[United Muscovite Nations]

No, it's pretty much responsible for the destruction of religion in France.

>This is a bad thing.

Indeed it is, as it will result in the ultimate destruction of the vast majority of the French people.

[Cekoviu]

I'm speaking about a hypothetical situation where Huey Long became president and shared the wealth.
If you notice, communism is still quite the unpopular thing in the United States. Can't say the same about the former colonial overlords, though.
Also note that the further reaches of the right are getting popularity from disenfranchisement.

Wrong, stalinism is unpopular. Libertarian socialism and anarchism don't have quite the same stain, indeed the IWW are still active in their agenda. And the right are a shambles, making no attempt to actually organise. The whole "unite the right" thing in the US ended up being a complete farce. The right makes a lot of noise, but it's just that. Noise. In western Europe there are no far right parties that the majority of people take seriously.

If you consider Norway to be part of Western Europe (it's technically not, but culturally it could be considered Western European), Fremskrittspartiet is in power right now, and it's far-right. Also, Marine Le Pen got like 40% of the French vote iirc, and the PVV is scarily popular in the Netherlands. The far-right definitely is alive and it's not going away soon.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

The french revolution was great, only constitutional monarchys are good.

No, it's pretty much responsible for the destruction of religion in France.

Monarchs should have been better to the citizens then.

>This is a bad thing.

Indeed it is, as it will result in the ultimate destruction of the vast majority of the French people.

Been around sense 1792. Hasn't destroyed France yet.

[United Muscovite Nations]

No, it's pretty much responsible for the destruction of religion in France.

Monarchs should have been better to the citizens then.

Indeed it is, as it will result in the ultimate destruction of the vast majority of the French people.

Been around sense 1792. Hasn't destroyed France yet.

I mean that most of them will probably go to Hell for rejecting the faith. Moreover, the monarchy didn't do anything that bad in that situation.

[Northern Davincia]

1. Antifa isn't doing much besides petty vandalism.
2. Yet he left Spain a better place than when he had found it (so to speak).

making sweeping generalisations doesn't help your case much. Also, if he did such a fantastic job then why did Spain flip to democratic after he died? Is it perhaps because he drove anyone who wasnt't explicitly fascist underground. Even conservatives got the short end of the stick if they didn't bow down.

His goal wasn't to permanently implement totalitarian rule, but to preserve Spain. The king was the one that returned the country to democracy.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Every faction in Spain was terrible, they should have just let Salazar annex them.