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Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What type of leftist are you?

Left-leaning Centrist
102
14%
Left/Social Liberal
66
9%
Social Democrat
102
14%
Democratic Socialist
125
17%
Marxist Communist
132
18%
Social Anarchist
48
7%
Individualist Anarchist
34
5%
Revolutionary Syndicalist
38
5%
Communalist
26
4%
Other (Please Post)
65
9%
 
Total votes : 738

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Dejanic
Senator
 
Posts: 4670
Founded: Nov 20, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Dejanic » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:06 am

Questers wrote:It's ordinary conversational practice to supply implication and draw inference.

There's no harm in being clear about what you're talking about though. And misusing terms doesn't help when leftists on a daily basis are trying to actually teach others what these terms mean and reclaim them for proper use. Not everyone here is well read in Marx or Lenin like me and you may be.
Last edited by Dejanic on Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post-Post Leftist | Anarcho-Blairite | Pol Pot Sympathiser

Jesus was a Socialist | Satan is a Capitalist

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Generic committed leftist with the opinion that anyone even slightly to the right of him is Hitler.

Master Shake wrote:multicultural loving imbecile.

Quintium wrote:Have you even been alive at all, toddler anarcho-collectivist?

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Questers
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13015
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Questers » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:06 am

Dejanic wrote:I think there's certainly legimate criticisms you could make of the Ukrainian and Chinese experiences (these famines were avoidable and mismanagement was rife), but to ignore the long histories of famines in both regions, as well as the resulting lack of famines once Socialist policies were enacted is a great example of Capitalist cognitive dissonance.
Yes and yes.

It's like this with authoritarianism too — having a broadly liberal and constitutional government was not common practice in these places before they had socialist revolutions but it will be socialism that takes the blame for any authoritarian or totalitarian experience.
奴隸們起來起來!

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Questers
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13015
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Questers » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:08 am

Dejanic wrote:
Questers wrote:It's ordinary conversational practice to supply implication and draw inference.

There's no harm in being clear about what you're talking about though. And misusing terms doesn't help when leftists on a daily basis are trying to actually teach others what these terms mean and reclaim them for proper use.
But you are a leftist. If there's a problem with me using Communism as a shorthand for Socialism (which there might be) there certainly isn't when I'm talking to people who already know the difference.

The point was fairly clear. Aren't you English anyway? The collocation between Russia and the USSR is very strong as it is.
奴隸們起來起來!

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Sanctissima
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8425
Founded: Jul 16, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanctissima » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:15 am

Republican Corentia wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Ah yes, the same collectivization that literally caused the largest famine in Russian history, wiping out millions. As I already told you, multiple times, it was quite literally the OVERPRODUCTION OF GRAIN that used up the soil and caused the famine. You completely ignore the effects of soil degradation, which is precisely what occurred after collectivization. The thorough massacring of the kulaks completely wiped out the class of people who actually knew how to manage the farms, replacing them with Lysenkoist idiots who thought they could till the fields ad inifinitum with zero crop rotation. Again, you're cherrypicking data and sources so as to blame it all on natural happenstance and bad luck, even though this was blatantly not the case in the slightest. It is due to the complete and utter incompetence of the Politburo and the process of collectivization, as well as the damning effects of dekulakazition and adoption of Lysenkoism as agricultural policy, that ultimately caused the famine.

You're quite literally being an apologist for people who intentionally mass-murdered over a million peasants because they were slightly wealthier than other peasants, then through sheer incompetence caused the deaths of even more millions of people because they didn't understand basic agriculture.

>the same collectivization that caused the largest famine in Russian history

How?

>"OVERPRODUCTION OF GRAIN REEE"

You never mentioned overproduction of grain. Are you getting flustered or something? Funny how we're talking about a famine but you seem to be talking about overproduction, kek.

>"The thorough massacring of the kulaks completely wiped out the class of people who actually knew how to manage the farms"

Kulaks weren't the only ones who knew how to farm. Once again you're pulling shit out of your ass. The people who literally voluntarily went to these collectivized farms were also peasants too.

>"It is due to the complete and utter incompetence of the Politburo and the process of collectivization, as well as the damning effects of dekulakazition and adoption of Lysenkoism as agricultural policy, that ultimately caused the famine."

Wew boy it's like you're on repeat, goddamn. So uh, I guess the U.S. Government was wrong about the routine droughts in the area happening? Those are completely unrelated to the famine? Elaborate your position rather than just repeating yourself over and over gain, please.

>"You're quite literally being an apologist for people who intentionally mass-murdered over a million peasants because they were slightly wealthier than other peasants, then through sheer incompetence caused the deaths of even more millions of people because they didn't understand basic agriculture."

BAYSIC AGROCULCHURE 101


Again, as I've told you multiple times, Lysenkoist policies were the direct cause of the Ukrainian and broader Russian famines. This was directly linked to the immense overproduction of grain that degraded the soil and rendered it utterly infertile for crop growing in later years, thus causing the famine. I assumed you'd already know what Lysenkoism was, but apparently you have an extremely mundane understanding of Stalinist policies and clearly have no idea what you're talking about, since you persist with this idiotic notion that a minor series of droughts wiped out more than 10 million people.

As I've already explained to you, it was the thorough elimination of the kulaks and replacement of them with Lysenkoist officials who knew nothing of agriculture that caused the collectivized farms to severely overproduce grain and other crops, thereby degrading the soil to a point where THE WORST FAMINE IN RUSSIAN HISTORY occurred. So yes, collectivization directly led to the famine, and pretty much any objective scholar who's studied this period of Soviet history extensively agrees with this assessment:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/disastrous-effects-lysenkoism-soviet-agriculture
http://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1034&context=hilltopreview

So kindly either learn basic history, or feck off with your historical revisionism.

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34389
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:39 am

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Humanism of today came out of the renaissance.


Not really. More the Enlightenment.

The Enlightenment is nothing but the culmination of the Age of Reason, which started with and came directly from the European Renaissance

User avatar
Sanctissima
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8425
Founded: Jul 16, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanctissima » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:13 am


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Democratic Communist Federation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1276
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:38 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:The Enlightenment is nothing but the culmination of the Age of Reason, which started with and came directly from the European Renaissance


Well, the Age of Reason has two definitions. One as you said, is the predecessor to the Enlightenment. The other is the Enlightenment itself. However, all of that is irrelevant, since I referred to the Enlightenment, not to the Age of Reason.

The Renaissance and the Enlightenment are two distinct historical periods. The Renaissance was the bridge between the medieval period or Middle Ages and modernity. The Enlightenment was the beginning of modernity.
Last edited by Democratic Communist Federation on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ-Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew ⅋ Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), ṣạdiyq
Communist Social Fiction, Bhaskarian critical realism, Marxism-Luxemburgism, Dialectical metaRealism
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A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر, remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal–⫯Ab°hāỳ, wa–yā ʿAliyy ʾal-⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (!يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Proud regressive leftist. Libertarianism is anti-authoritarianism. 8values: libertarian communist. Political Compass: left libertarian.

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United Muscovite Nations
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8859
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:48 pm


Two of those were due to war damage.
Eastern Orthodox Christian Traditionalist. Byzantinist and Tsarist (unironically). Maoist Third Worldist (ironically). Thermidorian Bonapartist. Armchair Legitimist. Free-Range Irredentist. Potable Blanquist.
Seventh Ecumenical Council at Constantinople wrote:The greatest gifts God has given to mankind are the priesthood and the Imperial authority

Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
>tfw no one thinks you're serious anymore

Hemos pasado

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Northern Davincia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6715
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:50 pm

Right-Libertarian, Minarchist, Laissez-faire Capitalist, Catholic

Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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United Muscovite Nations
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8859
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:54 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Two of those were due to war damage.

Or from bad collectivist practices.

Only the middle one was due to that. The last one was due entirely to war damage (your grain production would be down too if the Nazis destroyed 70+% of your arable farmland).
Eastern Orthodox Christian Traditionalist. Byzantinist and Tsarist (unironically). Maoist Third Worldist (ironically). Thermidorian Bonapartist. Armchair Legitimist. Free-Range Irredentist. Potable Blanquist.
Seventh Ecumenical Council at Constantinople wrote:The greatest gifts God has given to mankind are the priesthood and the Imperial authority

Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
>tfw no one thinks you're serious anymore

Hemos pasado

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Northern Davincia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6715
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:59 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Or from bad collectivist practices.

Only the middle one was due to that. The last one was due entirely to war damage (your grain production would be down too if the Nazis destroyed 70+% of your arable farmland).

Economist Michael Ellman claims that the hands of the state could have fed all those who died of starvation.[1] He argues that had the policies of the Soviet regime been different, there might have been no famine at all or a much smaller one.[1][1] Ellman claims that the famine resulted in an estimated 1 to 1.5 million lives lost in addition to secondary population losses due to reduced fertility.[1]
Economist Steven Rosefielde claims that the Soviet government bore responsibility for the conditions.

Wikipedia can be strange at times.
Right-Libertarian, Minarchist, Laissez-faire Capitalist, Catholic

Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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United Muscovite Nations
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8859
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:05 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Only the middle one was due to that. The last one was due entirely to war damage (your grain production would be down too if the Nazis destroyed 70+% of your arable farmland).

Economist Michael Ellman claims that the hands of the state could have fed all those who died of starvation.[1] He argues that had the policies of the Soviet regime been different, there might have been no famine at all or a much smaller one.[1][1] Ellman claims that the famine resulted in an estimated 1 to 1.5 million lives lost in addition to secondary population losses due to reduced fertility.[1]
Economist Steven Rosefielde claims that the Soviet government bore responsibility for the conditions.

Wikipedia can be strange at times.

Clearly, two people are absolute proof.
Eastern Orthodox Christian Traditionalist. Byzantinist and Tsarist (unironically). Maoist Third Worldist (ironically). Thermidorian Bonapartist. Armchair Legitimist. Free-Range Irredentist. Potable Blanquist.
Seventh Ecumenical Council at Constantinople wrote:The greatest gifts God has given to mankind are the priesthood and the Imperial authority

Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
>tfw no one thinks you're serious anymore

Hemos pasado

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34389
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:37 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:The Enlightenment is nothing but the culmination of the Age of Reason, which started with and came directly from the European Renaissance


Well, the Age of Reason has two definitions. One as you said, is the predecessor to the Enlightenment. Other other is the Enlightenment itself. However, all of that is irrelevant, since I referred to the Enlightenment, not to the Age of Reason.

The Renaissance and the Enlightenment are two distinct historical periods. The Renaissance was the bridge between the medieval period or Middle Ages and modernity. The Enlightenment was the beginning of modernity.

There is no such thing as distinct historical period except as a convinience. It is helpful for that, but distinct historical periods become misleading whenever we think of them as concrete "epochs" of sudden transformation. Reason as paramount started in post-schism western theology, but it was not until the European Renaissance that reason became an endeavor autonomous from theology, which sparked the "Age of Reason" which culminated in a turn of reason against theology (the Enlightenment).

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34389
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:00 pm

Questers wrote:
Dejanic wrote:I think there's certainly legimate criticisms you could make of the Ukrainian and Chinese experiences (these famines were avoidable and mismanagement was rife), but to ignore the long histories of famines in both regions, as well as the resulting lack of famines once Socialist policies were enacted is a great example of Capitalist cognitive dissonance.
Yes and yes.

It's like this with authoritarianism too — having a broadly liberal and constitutional government was not common practice in these places before they had socialist revolutions but it will be socialism that takes the blame for any authoritarian or totalitarian experience.

Socialism took it to another level. Trial by jury (started by Alexander II) was the norm in Russia. The commies had zero regard for it (probably saw it as bourgeois), and killed and imprisoned way more than the czar. And, of course, it goes without saying that they were far more totalitarian
Last edited by The Parkus Empire on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Ostroeuropa
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42160
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:18 pm

FUCK IT LETS GO. (This was about 2 months ago.)

I'll be honest, i'm no longer sure about drug legalization.

Marijuana yes, but my experience on amphetamines makes me think they should be banned. Can anyone convince me?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulant_psychosis

A Japanese study of recovery from methamphetamine psychosis reported a 64% recovery rate within 10 days rising to an 82% recovery rate at 30 days after methamphetamine cessation.[8] However it has been suggested that around 5–15% of users fail to make a complete recovery in the long term.[


Those 30 days were fucking terrible. (It was about 25 for me)
Not knowing if i'd be permanently psychotic and shit.

I heard the simurgh (Scrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee), I heard the christian god (It's okay, just don't hurt people and i'll let you into heaven. It was so cute that you trusted the dog, that you thought "If the voices were real the dog would react", i can't punish you for that.", I heard allah (Telling me that I'd somehow managed to fuck things up, could hear him and his angels talking, this was not planned, but oh well, i guess you have to be the last prophet of islam.), I heard demons, I heard my "Future partner" getting raped (The "Future partner" shit broke me a few times. Voices complimenting you, pointing out your best traits, even shit you didn't really notice about yourself, then suddenly veering off into "YOU FUCKED UP!", a dozen or so times. Round and round and round.), I heard everyone I know go through everything i'd done wrong to them screaming at me that they hated me for it and wanted me to kill myself, I saw shadows gearing up to attack me, It broke me to the point that I was evil, where I had everything torn from me by voices and hallucinations until the only thing they couldn't take was my cruelty, my malice, my predatory nature, that was mine and noone could take it from me.

Ahahahahahaha.

"Who do we do this to next?"

Being malicious and having fun from hurting people, I realized that was weakness, and accepted my weakness, it was comfortable.

" I did not come for the strong. "

Louder than the others, and I looked toward it and there was a white wolf (It's a splotch on the wall, but at the time, white wolf.)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

My vision shook, I screamed, I writhed on the floor, I couldn't handle it. Loud. Eventually the howl strained, and I could look, and I saw it creating... everything, in the way that things represent things in dreams, but it was a hallucination. Strained, strained, strained, it pushed itself until the howl faded and everything died, and it fled from me, whimpering.

It's infected my brain.
I used to be an atheist.
I still am. I'm just less sure.

My experience psychosed has completely changed me, and completely fucked me. This stuff can't be legal. Even if it ruins 1/1000 people, that's too many.

(I'm no longer psychosed. It just utterly destroyed the me from before and made a new me.)
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:52 pm, edited 7 times in total.
British Nationalist And Syndicalist.
HMS Barham wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Let us briefly contend that there is a pro-women bias in discussion of social issues

Begging the question. Modern culture is virulently anti-woman in that most women want a stable marriage and children, something that feminism denies them. Ostroeuropa is anti-woman because he is a radical feminist.

Why we can't have nice things.

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Posts: 1276
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:29 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:There is no such thing as distinct historical period except as a convinience. It is helpful for that, but distinct historical periods become misleading whenever we think of them as concrete "epochs" of sudden transformation. Reason as paramount started in post-schism western theology, but it was not until the European Renaissance that reason became an endeavor autonomous from theology, which sparked the "Age of Reason" which culminated in a turn of reason against theology (the Enlightenment).


My use of the term distinct was intended to indicate the Enlightenment's distinctive characteristics, not to suggest that the period did not have a historical continuity with the Renaissance. I thought that was obvious from the context.

Your statement that modern humanism (scientific humanism, ethical humanism, secular humanism, etc.) is rooted in the Renaissance is historically inaccurate. These versions of humanism would have not have made much, if any, sense to the prototypical Renaissance man (à la Leonardo da Vinci). Renaissance humanism was concerned with other issues.
Last edited by Democratic Communist Federation on Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ-Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew ⅋ Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), ṣạdiyq
Communist Social Fiction, Bhaskarian critical realism, Marxism-Luxemburgism, Dialectical metaRealism
and The MarkFoster.NETwork. Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective ★⚑☭
A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر, remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal–⫯Ab°hāỳ, wa–yā ʿAliyy ʾal-⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (!يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Proud regressive leftist. Libertarianism is anti-authoritarianism. 8values: libertarian communist. Political Compass: left libertarian.

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Republican Corentia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 121
Founded: Jun 25, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Republican Corentia » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:30 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
Republican Corentia wrote:>the same collectivization that caused the largest famine in Russian history

How?

>"OVERPRODUCTION OF GRAIN REEE"

You never mentioned overproduction of grain. Are you getting flustered or something? Funny how we're talking about a famine but you seem to be talking about overproduction, kek.

>"The thorough massacring of the kulaks completely wiped out the class of people who actually knew how to manage the farms"

Kulaks weren't the only ones who knew how to farm. Once again you're pulling shit out of your ass. The people who literally voluntarily went to these collectivized farms were also peasants too.

>"It is due to the complete and utter incompetence of the Politburo and the process of collectivization, as well as the damning effects of dekulakazition and adoption of Lysenkoism as agricultural policy, that ultimately caused the famine."

Wew boy it's like you're on repeat, goddamn. So uh, I guess the U.S. Government was wrong about the routine droughts in the area happening? Those are completely unrelated to the famine? Elaborate your position rather than just repeating yourself over and over gain, please.

>"You're quite literally being an apologist for people who intentionally mass-murdered over a million peasants because they were slightly wealthier than other peasants, then through sheer incompetence caused the deaths of even more millions of people because they didn't understand basic agriculture."

BAYSIC AGROCULCHURE 101


Again, as I've told you multiple times, Lysenkoist policies were the direct cause of the Ukrainian and broader Russian famines. This was directly linked to the immense overproduction of grain that degraded the soil and rendered it utterly infertile for crop growing in later years, thus causing the famine. I assumed you'd already know what Lysenkoism was, but apparently you have an extremely mundane understanding of Stalinist policies and clearly have no idea what you're talking about, since you persist with this idiotic notion that a minor series of droughts wiped out more than 10 million people.

As I've already explained to you, it was the thorough elimination of the kulaks and replacement of them with Lysenkoist officials who knew nothing of agriculture that caused the collectivized farms to severely overproduce grain and other crops, thereby degrading the soil to a point where THE WORST FAMINE IN RUSSIAN HISTORY occurred. So yes, collectivization directly led to the famine, and pretty much any objective scholar who's studied this period of Soviet history extensively agrees with this assessment:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/disastrous-effects-lysenkoism-soviet-agriculture
http://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1034&context=hilltopreview

So kindly either learn basic history, or feck off with your historical revisionism.

You can tell me "many times" but that doesn't make a grossly incorrect piece of information any truer, especially since your quick google-search sources don't even back up your point.

Apparently I haven't been wrong about your "wikipedia entry" takes since you literally just hurriedly googled those two things in an effort to save your point. The first source you got from "Encyclopedia DOT com" doesn't even back up your outrageous claim that Lysenkoism caused the famines. It actually (EXTREMELY vaguely) claims "Lysenkoism—at a minimum—made worse the famine and deprivations facing Soviet citizens" - how much worse? How was Lysenko able to go to very collective farm or peasant farm that the Soviets did not own at the time during the famine, and fuck it all up? His work mainly stayed theoretical and as a propaganda tool evidently, as despite his incorrect theories the USSR and other Comintern countries would have their grain production skyrocket and end famines absolutely, and for good.

Second source isn't even about the famines, lol. It's literally a psychologist, taking a Marxist perspective mind you, using Lysenkoism as an example of social and political processes affecting what we would know as accepted scientific "truth", or as the Professor puts it, "the Big T". He goes onto point out Lysenko's "working-class hero" type of vigor, his support of the communist party, and his ideological similarities with other former peasants going into the sciences at that time. You didn't even read your own fucking source lmao. I should thank you though because it was interesting to read imo.

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Republican Corentia
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Posts: 121
Founded: Jun 25, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Republican Corentia » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:32 pm

"and pretty much any objective scholar who's studied this period of Soviet history extensively agrees with this assessment"

>U.S. Government says droughts caused the famine in 1931
>Foremost expert in famines says it was mainly caused by natural distasters

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Audioslavia
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 1742
Founded: Antiquity
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Audioslavia » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:04 pm

Questers wrote:Stop being autistic.

Sanctissima wrote:So kindly either learn basic history, or feck off with your historical revisionism.


I appreciate that the discussion is getting heated, but lines like these are unacceptable. This is an unofficial warning for flaming for both of you. Calling someone 'autistic', or saying they're 'being autistic', is a horrifically ugly way to argue. Substituting 'fuck' for 'feck' isn't a clever way of getting around a scolding for flaming, regardless of how the word 'feck' is used in Irish English.

Knock it off.

Cheers.
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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34389
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:02 am

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:There is no such thing as distinct historical period except as a convinience. It is helpful for that, but distinct historical periods become misleading whenever we think of them as concrete "epochs" of sudden transformation. Reason as paramount started in post-schism western theology, but it was not until the European Renaissance that reason became an endeavor autonomous from theology, which sparked the "Age of Reason" which culminated in a turn of reason against theology (the Enlightenment).


My use of the term distinct was intended to indicate the Enlightenment's distinctive characteristics, not to suggest that the period did not have a historical continuity with the Renaissance. I thought that was obvious from the context.

Your statement that modern humanism (scientific humanism, ethical humanism, secular humanism, etc.) is rooted in the Renaissance is historically inaccurate. These versions of humanism would have not have made much, if any, sense to the prototypical Renaissance man (à la Leonardo da Vinci). Renaissance humanism was concerned with other issues.

That it was concerned with other issues (mainly aesthetics), there can be no doubt. That humanism as a mode of thought defining man rather than God as the center of the univese started in the Renaissance, and that this is the "rock" the church of Enlightenment humanism is built upon, there can be no doubt.

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The Parkus Empire
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Posts: 34389
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:13 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:FUCK IT LETS GO. (This was about 2 months ago.)

I'll be honest, i'm no longer sure about drug legalization.

Marijuana yes, but my experience on amphetamines makes me think they should be banned. Can anyone convince me?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulant_psychosis

A Japanese study of recovery from methamphetamine psychosis reported a 64% recovery rate within 10 days rising to an 82% recovery rate at 30 days after methamphetamine cessation.[8] However it has been suggested that around 5–15% of users fail to make a complete recovery in the long term.[


Those 30 days were fucking terrible. (It was about 25 for me)
Not knowing if i'd be permanently psychotic and shit.

I heard the simurgh (Scrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee), I heard the christian god (It's okay, just don't hurt people and i'll let you into heaven. It was so cute that you trusted the dog, that you thought "If the voices were real the dog would react", i can't punish you for that.", I heard allah (Telling me that I'd somehow managed to fuck things up, could hear him and his angels talking, this was not planned, but oh well, i guess you have to be the last prophet of islam.), I heard demons, I heard my "Future partner" getting raped (The "Future partner" shit broke me a few times. Voices complimenting you, pointing out your best traits, even shit you didn't really notice about yourself, then suddenly veering off into "YOU FUCKED UP!", a dozen or so times. Round and round and round.), I heard everyone I know go through everything i'd done wrong to them screaming at me that they hated me for it and wanted me to kill myself, I saw shadows gearing up to attack me, It broke me to the point that I was evil, where I had everything torn from me by voices and hallucinations until the only thing they couldn't take was my cruelty, my malice, my predatory nature, that was mine and noone could take it from me.

Ahahahahahaha.

"Who do we do this to next?"

Being malicious and having fun from hurting people, I realized that was weakness, and accepted my weakness, it was comfortable.

" I did not come for the strong. "

Louder than the others, and I looked toward it and there was a white wolf (It's a splotch on the wall, but at the time, white wolf.)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

My vision shook, I screamed, I writhed on the floor, I couldn't handle it. Loud. Eventually the howl strained, and I could look, and I saw it creating... everything, in the way that things represent things in dreams, but it was a hallucination. Strained, strained, strained, it pushed itself until the howl faded and everything died, and it fled from me, whimpering.

It's infected my brain.
I used to be an atheist.
I still am. I'm just less sure.

My experience psychosed has completely changed me, and completely fucked me. This stuff can't be legal. Even if it ruins 1/1000 people, that's too many.

(I'm no longer psychosed. It just utterly destroyed the me from before and made a new me.)


No one except for the fantatical libertarian or drugee could want meth to be legal. It is a highly toxic drug that turns people into robbers and makes them insane or paranoid. There is no analogy between it and alchohol, because alchohol does not keep people awake for days on end with zero sleep. People who deal meth, even in small quantities, must be subjected to the most stringent prosecution. The drug is almost supernatural in its evil. Those who are found in possession but not dealing, should be subjected to forced rehab.

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Questers
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Posts: 13015
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Questers » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:48 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:I'll be honest, i'm no longer sure about drug legalization.
)


Oh, good - you're becoming woke.
奴隸們起來起來!

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Democratic Communist Federation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1276
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:18 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:That it was concerned with other issues (mainly aesthetics), there can be no doubt. That humanism as a mode of thought defining man rather than God as the center of the univese started in the Renaissance, and that this is the "rock" the church of Enlightenment humanism is built upon, there can be no doubt.


Renaissance humanism was not concerned with the issue of God vis-à-vis man as the center of the universe. Most Renaissance humanists were devout Christians.

Now, humanism, post-Enlightenment, has often addressed that issue.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ-Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew ⅋ Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), ṣạdiyq
Communist Social Fiction, Bhaskarian critical realism, Marxism-Luxemburgism, Dialectical metaRealism
and The MarkFoster.NETwork. Become an embassy of The Antifa Luxemburgist Communist Collective ★⚑☭
A ḏik°r (Arabic, ذِكْر, remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal–⫯Ab°hāỳ, wa–yā ʿAliyy ʾal-⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (!يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
Code: Select all
[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]21ˢᵗ–Century Spartacus League[/u][/color][/url]
Proud regressive leftist. Libertarianism is anti-authoritarianism. 8values: libertarian communist. Political Compass: left libertarian.

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34389
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:26 am

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:That it was concerned with other issues (mainly aesthetics), there can be no doubt. That humanism as a mode of thought defining man rather than God as the center of the univese started in the Renaissance, and that this is the "rock" the church of Enlightenment humanism is built upon, there can be no doubt.


Renaissance humanism was not concerned with the issue of God vis-à-vis man as the center of the universe. Most Renaissance humanists were devout Christians.

Now, humanism, post-Enlightenment, has often addressed that issue.


Renaissance art began focusing on Christ as purely human. For instance, in prior art depicting the creation of Adam, Christ (who was the canonical athropomorphic rendering of God) was shown to be doing it. With the Renaissance, there comes an old guy as God who looks nothing like Christ, which makes a hard distinction between Christ and God. A new aesthetic exalting flesh and sensuality (even in Christ) becomes dominant, as opposed to prior art which stressed abstraction, asceticism and modesty.

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Taihei Tengoku
Minister
 
Posts: 3099
Founded: Dec 15, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:29 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:FUCK IT LETS GO. (This was about 2 months ago.)

I'll be honest, i'm no longer sure about drug legalization.

Marijuana yes, but my experience on amphetamines makes me think they should be banned. Can anyone convince me?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulant_psychosis

A Japanese study of recovery from methamphetamine psychosis reported a 64% recovery rate within 10 days rising to an 82% recovery rate at 30 days after methamphetamine cessation.[8] However it has been suggested that around 5–15% of users fail to make a complete recovery in the long term.[


Those 30 days were fucking terrible. (It was about 25 for me)
Not knowing if i'd be permanently psychotic and shit.

I heard the simurgh (Scrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee), I heard the christian god (It's okay, just don't hurt people and i'll let you into heaven. It was so cute that you trusted the dog, that you thought "If the voices were real the dog would react", i can't punish you for that.", I heard allah (Telling me that I'd somehow managed to fuck things up, could hear him and his angels talking, this was not planned, but oh well, i guess you have to be the last prophet of islam.), I heard demons, I heard my "Future partner" getting raped (The "Future partner" shit broke me a few times. Voices complimenting you, pointing out your best traits, even shit you didn't really notice about yourself, then suddenly veering off into "YOU FUCKED UP!", a dozen or so times. Round and round and round.), I heard everyone I know go through everything i'd done wrong to them screaming at me that they hated me for it and wanted me to kill myself, I saw shadows gearing up to attack me, It broke me to the point that I was evil, where I had everything torn from me by voices and hallucinations until the only thing they couldn't take was my cruelty, my malice, my predatory nature, that was mine and noone could take it from me.

Ahahahahahaha.

"Who do we do this to next?"

Being malicious and having fun from hurting people, I realized that was weakness, and accepted my weakness, it was comfortable.

" I did not come for the strong. "

Louder than the others, and I looked toward it and there was a white wolf (It's a splotch on the wall, but at the time, white wolf.)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

My vision shook, I screamed, I writhed on the floor, I couldn't handle it. Loud. Eventually the howl strained, and I could look, and I saw it creating... everything, in the way that things represent things in dreams, but it was a hallucination. Strained, strained, strained, it pushed itself until the howl faded and everything died, and it fled from me, whimpering.

It's infected my brain.
I used to be an atheist.
I still am. I'm just less sure.

My experience psychosed has completely changed me, and completely fucked me. This stuff can't be legal. Even if it ruins 1/1000 people, that's too many.

(I'm no longer psychosed. It just utterly destroyed the me from before and made a new me.)

nigga what

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