Sanctissima wrote:Republican Corentia wrote:I'm "completely ignoring the effects of Soviet agricultural policy on the famine" despite telling you why collectivization stopped famines for good? Wew. I'm actually doing something called a counter-argument in reply to several things you've said caused the Holodomor, including:
1. Collectivization, despite evidence ostensibly showing that this was not true and collectivization actually propelled the USSR's production of grain.
2. Dekulakization, despite actual instances of refusing to let grain be taken by officials seeking to feed a starving populace, their control of the grain market, etc. The class interest of the kulaks was more of a factor itself, rather than the policies taken against them.
3. The prevalence of Lysenkoism actually being practiced and causing the famine, which is not mentioned as a cause in either of the 2 sources I gave you, or even any sources I've read that could prove this. Rather they mention the frequent droughts the grain-producing area of the USSR experienced.
4. That this was a deliberate genocide, or as you've now switched to, just some silly fuck-up by the Soviets that could have been easily solved if it were not for the communist ideology. Which is also demonstrably false.
Ah yes, the same collectivization that literally caused the largest famine in Russian history, wiping out millions. As I already told you, multiple times, it was quite literally the
OVERPRODUCTION OF GRAIN that used up the soil and caused the famine. You completely ignore the effects of soil degradation, which is precisely what occurred after collectivization. The thorough massacring of the kulaks completely wiped out the class of people who actually knew how to manage the farms, replacing them with Lysenkoist idiots who thought they could till the fields ad inifinitum with zero crop rotation. Again, you're cherrypicking data and sources so as to blame it all on natural happenstance and bad luck, even though this was blatantly not the case in the slightest. It is due to the complete and utter incompetence of the Politburo and the process of collectivization, as well as the damning effects of dekulakazition and adoption of Lysenkoism as agricultural policy, that ultimately caused the famine.
You're quite literally being an apologist for people who intentionally mass-murdered over a million peasants because they were slightly wealthier than other peasants, then through sheer incompetence caused the deaths of even more millions of people because they didn't understand basic agriculture.
>the same collectivization that caused the largest famine in Russian history
How?
>"
OVERPRODUCTION OF GRAIN REEE"
You never mentioned overproduction of grain. Are you getting flustered or something? Funny how we're talking about
a famine but you seem to be talking about overproduction, kek.
>"The thorough massacring of the kulaks completely wiped out the class of people who actually knew how to manage the farms"
Kulaks weren't the only ones who knew how to farm. Once again you're pulling shit out of your ass. The people who literally voluntarily went to these collectivized farms were also peasants too.
>"It is due to the complete and utter incompetence of the Politburo and the process of collectivization, as well as the damning effects of dekulakazition and adoption of Lysenkoism as agricultural policy, that ultimately caused the famine."
Wew boy it's like you're on repeat, goddamn. So uh, I guess the U.S. Government was wrong about the routine droughts in the area happening? Those are completely unrelated to the famine? Elaborate your position rather than just repeating yourself over and over gain, please.
>"You're quite literally being an apologist for people who intentionally mass-murdered over a million peasants because they were slightly wealthier than other peasants, then through sheer incompetence caused the deaths of even more millions of people because they didn't understand basic agriculture."
BAYSIC AGROCULCHURE 101