Page 175 of 425

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:14 pm
by United Muscovite Nations
Image

He was really gonna do it.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:15 pm
by Genivaria
Bakery Hill wrote:
Genivaria wrote:For remaining on the East coast? Yeah not likely.
And I'm not justifying anything.

> Parkus condemns purchase because of all the genocide.
"No it needed to happen regardless."

Sorry but I can't read that exchange any other way.

That's your problem then, I'm not going to humor your accusation that I'm 'justifying genocide'.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:17 pm
by The Parkus Empire
Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:SiOC meant "let's not declare war on the whole planet," not that Stalin stopped supportioning internationalism


The entire point was to unite the world under the leadership of the USSR, not to kill off the country.

Sacrificing the USSR for any reason whatsoever would have been antithetical to Stalin's ideals.

The USSR was a federation of socialist countries, not one. Stalin was not a Russian, for instance.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:17 pm
by Bakery Hill
Sanctissima wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:It would have probably been a better country for it. But if you want to try and justify genocide in a leftist fashion don't let me stop you.


It probably would have been retaken by the British in such a scenario.

But since you're so quick to judge, kindly remind me how Australia didn't do the exact same thing with its own Aboriginal population. :^)

I'm not coming to this from a point of nationalism friend. I know that perfectly well.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:18 pm
by The Widening Gyre
The Parkus Empire wrote:
The Widening Gyre wrote:
The John McCain of late republican Rome was an inheritor of an older Greek tradition. If he should get credit for anything, it's the historical happenstance that lead to his discovery in the Renaissance.

Eh, John McCain is about foreign wars, whereas Cicreo said fighting wars except to protect allies was destroying Rome. But yeah, his identification of humanity with God, and seeing each human as a piece, is older tradition; and yes, his rediscovery was why he was so influntial.


Which is really the point I'm making here. If you're going to give credit to anyone, give it to Petrarch. It's not like he didn't deserve it.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:19 pm
by The East Marches II
United Muscovite Nations wrote:(Image)

He was really gonna do it.


W-what about his super navy plan to destroy the Western powers, d-don't forget that

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:20 pm
by Sanctissima
The Parkus Empire wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
The entire point was to unite the world under the leadership of the USSR, not to kill off the country.

Sacrificing the USSR for any reason whatsoever would have been antithetical to Stalin's ideals.

The USSR was a federation of socialist countries, not one. Stalin was not a Russian, for instance.


Then would you kindly clarify your initial assertion that Stalin would have willingly sacrificed his country for the sake of international Communism?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:20 pm
by United Muscovite Nations
The East Marches II wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:(Image)

He was really gonna do it.


W-what about his super navy plan to destroy the Western powers, d-don't forget that

Yes, that was a real thing. Planned to build 15 battleships, started on 4 before they got invaded.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:21 pm
by Bakery Hill
Genivaria wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:> Parkus condemns purchase because of all the genocide.
"No it needed to happen regardless."

Sorry but I can't read that exchange any other way.

That's your problem then, I'm not going to humor your accusation that I'm 'justifying genocide'.

I can rephrase if you think that's unfair. Which matters more to you? Manifest Destiny or avoiding genocide? Parkus clear chose the latter. What's your choice?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:21 pm
by Sanctissima
Bakery Hill wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
It probably would have been retaken by the British in such a scenario.

But since you're so quick to judge, kindly remind me how Australia didn't do the exact same thing with its own Aboriginal population. :^)

I'm not coming to this from a point of nationalism friend. I know that perfectly well.


Fair enough.

Just wanted to point out that America is hardly some unique boogeyman when it comes to the conquest of native tribes.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:23 pm
by The East Marches II
United Muscovite Nations wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
W-what about his super navy plan to destroy the Western powers, d-don't forget that

Yes, that was a real thing. Planned to build 15 battleships, started on 4 before they got invaded.


D-did we get saved by Adolfo?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:23 pm
by The Parkus Empire
Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:The USSR was a federation of socialist countries, not one. Stalin was not a Russian, for instance.


Then would you kindly clarify your initial assertion that Stalin would have willingly sacrificed his country for the sake of international Communism?

Russia or any other number. The USSR was about socialism, not any particular country. It could hypothetically have been comprised of North America even if the Eastern bloc perished.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:24 pm
by United Muscovite Nations
The East Marches II wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Yes, that was a real thing. Planned to build 15 battleships, started on 4 before they got invaded.


D-did we get saved by Adolfo?

Possibly. Had Hitler not been crazy, it's likely the Soviet Union would have revved up its tanks in 1943 or later and struck the Axis in Eastern Europe. It's hard to say how well the Axis would hold up to that, but if Red Army force increases continued at those rates, it's unlikely the Axis would have won the war.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:25 pm
by Sanctissima
The Parkus Empire wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Then would you kindly clarify your initial assertion that Stalin would have willingly sacrificed his country for the sake of international Communism?

Russia or any other number. The USSR was about socialism, not any particular country. It could hypothetically have been comprised of North America even if the Eastern bloc perished.


That's rather nonsensical.

It lived and died with the Russian SSR. Without it, there was no USSR. Hence, to tie it back in with the initial conversation, why Stalin's purges of the military were thoroughly detrimental to the USSR, even from a strictly pragmatic perspective.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:29 pm
by Sanctissima
United Muscovite Nations wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
D-did we get saved by Adolfo?

Possibly. Had Hitler not been crazy, it's likely the Soviet Union would have revved up its tanks in 1943 or later and struck the Axis in Eastern Europe. It's hard to say how well the Axis would hold up to that, but if Red Army force increases continued at those rates, it's unlikely the Axis would have won the war.


Eh, I figure the USSR would have had quite a deal of domestic trouble as a result of young men being sent to die against the German war machine by the thousands.

Keep in mind that it took a foreign aggressor practicing literal genocide to force the Ukrainians, amongst several other major groups, to consider rule by the USSR preferable to complete and utter annihilation by the Nazis. And even then, many Ukrainians opted for the Nazis anyway.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:29 pm
by The Parkus Empire
Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Russia or any other number. The USSR was about socialism, not any particular country. It could hypothetically have been comprised of North America even if the Eastern bloc perished.


That's rather nonsensical.

It lived and died with the Russian SSR. Without it, there was no USSR. Hence, to tie it back in with the initial conversation, why Stalin's purges of the military were thoroughly detrimental to the USSR, even from a strictly pragmatic perspective.

It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:32 pm
by Sanctissima
The Parkus Empire wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
That's rather nonsensical.

It lived and died with the Russian SSR. Without it, there was no USSR. Hence, to tie it back in with the initial conversation, why Stalin's purges of the military were thoroughly detrimental to the USSR, even from a strictly pragmatic perspective.

It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though


A gamble worth taking.

Other methods were available that didn't involve cuckolding the entire military structure.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:32 pm
by Bakery Hill
The Parkus Empire wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
That's rather nonsensical.

It lived and died with the Russian SSR. Without it, there was no USSR. Hence, to tie it back in with the initial conversation, why Stalin's purges of the military were thoroughly detrimental to the USSR, even from a strictly pragmatic perspective.

It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though

And Poles. And Ukrainians. And Chechens, Ingush, Tartars, Kalmyks, Greeks, Germans of course shit how much time have we got?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:35 pm
by The Parkus Empire
The Widening Gyre wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Eh, John McCain is about foreign wars, whereas Cicreo said fighting wars except to protect allies was destroying Rome. But yeah, his identification of humanity with God, and seeing each human as a piece, is older tradition; and yes, his rediscovery was why he was so influntial.


Which is really the point I'm making here. If you're going to give credit to anyone, give it to Petrarch. It's not like he didn't deserve it.

No, I think I will still credit Cicero, since his elegance was key to the spread of the ideas.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:36 pm
by The Parkus Empire
Bakery Hill wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though

And Poles. And Ukrainians. And Chechens, Ingush, Tartars, Kalmyks, Greeks, Germans of course shit how much time have we got?

Stalin did not believe murder was wrong, so he needed little pretense.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:36 pm
by United Muscovite Nations
Bakery Hill wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though

And Poles. And Ukrainians. And Chechens, Ingush, Tartars, Kalmyks, Greeks, Germans of course shit how much time have we got?

Ukrainians didn't get off any worse than anyone else, tbh.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:38 pm
by The Parkus Empire
Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though


A gamble worth taking.

Other methods were available that didn't involve cuckolding the entire military structure.

You say it was worth taking, but if a Bonaparte appeared you would say, "inevitable".

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:39 pm
by United Muscovite Nations
Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though


A gamble worth taking.

Other methods were available that didn't involve cuckolding the entire military structure.

The military structure was awful. More people were purged for being drunk on the job than for political reasons.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:42 pm
by Bakery Hill
United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:And Poles. And Ukrainians. And Chechens, Ingush, Tartars, Kalmyks, Greeks, Germans of course shit how much time have we got?

Ukrainians didn't get off any worse than anyone else, tbh.

As an ethnic groups they got off better than others really.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:43 pm
by Bakery Hill
United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
A gamble worth taking.

Other methods were available that didn't involve cuckolding the entire military structure.

The military structure was awful. More people were purged for being drunk on the job than for political reasons.

I've heard 101 justification for this by Stalinists. The best I heard was that Stalin was trying to eliminate rape culture in the Red Army.