Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Olivaero]

I'm pretty sure people were having orgies and gorging themselves on food (if they had it available to them) long before liberalism. The desire to indulge oneself does not have any kind of class character so your wrong in implying proletarians would not wish to engage in producing or consuming pornography (not for profit obviously) without the ideology of liberalism.

Aillyria subscribes to Rousseau's theory of human nature

Ah well, not much to be said there then. I've got to say it's extremely amusing to imagine considering the wide variety of circumstances humans existed in around the world before the onset of civilisation that humans could truly have one state of nature shared between them which would transcend the bare necessities that we need to do to survive and into things like sexual morality.

[Cekoviu]

Laissez-faire capitalism, internationalism, our growing inability to debate with each other civily in a new age of extremes, and the fact that ice cream still makes us fat.

We fix them through a well-reasoned national program of reform, a commitment to freedom of speech, and eventually giving in and buying bigger trousers.

You should be president of the USA. We need someone who cares about the betterment of us all.
But, your use of the word trousers inclines me to believe that you are not eligible to run for POTUS, but I wish you luck in making the world better.

She's a dirty Brit, of course she can't be president!

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Social justice would be the streets running with blood, rich and poor, white and black, man and woman

I don't want that world. However, sadly, sooner or later it may turn out that way.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

What do you mean?

Justice can only come through a struggle. No one is waiting to hand it out.

[The Parkus Empire]

Social justice would be the streets running with blood, rich and poor, white and black, man and woman

True. Or, y'know, we could make everybody happy instead. But that's no fun.

"Hedonic calculus" has zero to do with justice

[The Parkus Empire]

Social justice would be the streets running with blood, rich and poor, white and black, man and woman

I don't want that world. However, sadly, sooner or later it may turn out that way.

If you want social justice, you want that

[Cekoviu]

True. Or, y'know, we could make everybody happy instead. But that's no fun.

"Hedonic calculus" has zero to do with justice

Isn't hedonic calculus a utilitarian mindset anyway? That doesn't imply everyone, only that >50% of people are happy.

[West Leas Oros]

What do you mean?

Justice can only come through a struggle. No one is waiting to hand it out.

But wasn't Gandhi successful in many of his protests? And didn't he become one of the most important figures in India's independence? And MLK was quite successful in nonviolent action to help combat racial injustice in the USA, right?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

If you want social justice, you want that

Didn't you just posit that one has nothing to do with the other?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

But wasn't Gandhi successful in many of his protests? And didn't he become one of the most important figures in India's independence? And MLK was quite successful in nonviolent action to help combat racial injustice in the USA, right?

Of course he was successful. India became independent. However, it never would have happened without a struggle.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

But wasn't Gandhi successful in many of his protests? And didn't he become one of the most important figures in India's independence? And MLK was quite successful in nonviolent action to help combat racial injustice in the USA, right?

Of course he was successful. India became independent. However, it never would have happened without a struggle.

A nonviolent struggle.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Social justice would be the streets running with blood, rich and poor, white and black, man and woman

Don't you think you're being a tad hyperbolic?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Obviously it should be legal.

Absolutely not.

There goes secular society.

[Cekoviu]

Social justice would be the streets running with blood, rich and poor, white and black, man and woman

Don't you think you're being a tad hyperbolic?

Parkus, hyperbole? Never!

[The Widening Gyre]

Justice can only come through a struggle. No one is waiting to hand it out.

But wasn't Gandhi successful in many of his protests? And didn't he become one of the most important figures in India's independence? And MLK was quite successful in nonviolent action to help combat racial injustice in the USA, right?

Both of them were shot to death.

[West Leas Oros]

But wasn't Gandhi successful in many of his protests? And didn't he become one of the most important figures in India's independence? And MLK was quite successful in nonviolent action to help combat racial injustice in the USA, right?

Both of them were shot to death.

That doesn't mean they didn't achieve many great things. Being shot to death does not negate the good deeds that they did.

[Northern Davincia]

But wasn't Gandhi successful in many of his protests? And didn't he become one of the most important figures in India's independence? And MLK was quite successful in nonviolent action to help combat racial injustice in the USA, right?

Both of them were shot to death.

Justice does not come without sacrifice.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Both of them were shot to death.

Sometimes being killed for one's convictions and actions is the ultimate sign of success.

[Aillyria]

I don't want your racial and sex vendettas. How about actual justice, you know, based on not punishing people for their race or sex.

Again, you are twisting my words. I will say it again, socialists cannot be too fanatical about social justice. It is a contradiction in terms.

Why not just justice? What makes "social" justice different?

Besides, I'm not twisting anything, you literally said the world would be better if white people were enslaved and that feminist supremacy was justified because "karma".

Absolutely not.

There goes secular society.

Exactly. Secularism and capitalism areincompatible with God's (swt) intended lifestyle for us.

[West Leas Oros]

Again, you are twisting my words. I will say it again, socialists cannot be too fanatical about social justice. It is a contradiction in terms.

Why not just justice? What makes "social" justice diffetent?

Besides, I'm not twisting anything, you literally said the world would be better if white people were enslaved and that feminist supremacy was justified because "karma".

There goes secular society.

Exactly. Secularism and capitalism areincompatible with God's (swt) intended lifestyle for us.

Wow. A strawman beyond words. I find that Aillyria is one of the most phony socialists I have ever heard.

[The Parkus Empire]

"Hedonic calculus" has zero to do with justice

Isn't hedonic calculus a utilitarian mindset anyway? That doesn't imply everyone, only that >50% of people are happy.

No necessarily. Utilitarianism just says better a majority than a minority, not that majority is the end all.

You should also read Notes from Underground

[Aillyria]

Why not just justice? What makes "social" justice diffetent?

Besides, I'm not twisting anything, you literally said the world would be better if white people were enslaved and that feminist supremacy was justified because "karma".


Exactly. Secularism and capitalism areincompatible with God's (swt) intended lifestyle for us.

Wow. A strawman beyond words. I find that Aillyria is one of the most phony socialists I have ever heard.

Says the person whose ideology lead to the coining of the term "champagne socialist" due to their underhandedness. Democratic Socialism is nothing more than a sham, nothing more than people using socialist theory to draw in the votes but too chickenshit to stir the pot or if it came to it stick a bayonet in the gut of a bourgeois pig.

[The Parkus Empire]

Social justice would be the streets running with blood, rich and poor, white and black, man and woman

Don't you think you're being a tad hyperbolic?

No. The liars, the greedy, the whores, the gluttons, the narcissists, the wrathful, the impious, the self-righteous, the judgemental, and the sloths are pretty equally represented among all races, classes, genders, etc

[West Leas Oros]

Wow. A strawman beyond words. I find that Aillyria is one of the most phony socialists I have ever heard.

Says the person whose ideology lead to the coining of the term "champagne socialist" due to their underhandedness. Democratic Socialism is nothing more than a sham, nothing more than people using socialist theory to draw in the votes but too chickenshit to stir the pot or if it came to it stick a bayonet in the gut of a bourgeois pig.

We aren't "chickenshit". We just aren't murderous asshats.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Why not just justice? What makes "social" justice different?

Perhaps because I am a sociologist, and I teach two or three sections of Social Problems each semester. The issue of social justice always weighs heavily on my mind.

Besides, I'm not twisting anything, you literally said the world would be better if white people were enslaved and that feminist supremacy was justified because "karma".

You accused me of asking for a vendetta. Despite the fact that I already clarified, this morning, that I was referring to Roy Bhaskar's concept of karma, you began to accuse me of asking for a vendetta once again.