Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Sovaal]

So what specifically about the Bill of Rights and constitution makes you hate them?

It is not that I specifically hate any particular item in these documents. However, the founding texts of the U.S. have been used to promote American exceptionalism.

I see. Well that’s a shame.

[Sovaal]

It is not that I specifically hate any particular item in these documents. However, the founding texts of the U.S. have been used to promote American exceptionalism.

and Marx's words made way for some of the worst atrocities in the last (and this) century. doesn't make those words any less of what they are. The Bill of Rights... (I would say the Constitution too, but the majority is just a government structure and personally I like Locke's system more than Montesquieu's, that said most of the List of Amendments are stuff that need to be used as a fundamental set of rights. along with most of the UN's charter)

This.

[Republican Corentia]

It is not that I specifically hate any particular item in these documents. However, the founding texts of the U.S. have been used to promote American exceptionalism.

and Marx's words made way for some of the worst atrocities in the last (and this) century. doesn't make those words any less of what they are. The Bill of Rights... (I would say the Constitution too, but the majority is just a government structure and personally I like Locke's system more than Montesquieu's, that said most of the List of Amendments are stuff that need to be used as a fundamental set of rights. along with most of the UN's charter)

How did Marx's words lead to the greatest atrocities on earth? That's some big language coming from the guy who's defending men who put "all men are created equal" in their documents while they continued the slave trade to its highest points in the United States.

[Republican Corentia]

https://constitutii.files.wordpress.com ... 936-en.pdf

Reminder the USSR's constitution was pretty good.

[Taihei Tengoku]

https://constitutii.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/1936-en.pdf

Reminder the USSR's constitution was pretty good.

this is what useful idiots actually believe

[Sovaal]

and Marx's words made way for some of the worst atrocities in the last (and this) century. doesn't make those words any less of what they are. The Bill of Rights... (I would say the Constitution too, but the majority is just a government structure and personally I like Locke's system more than Montesquieu's, that said most of the List of Amendments are stuff that need to be used as a fundamental set of rights. along with most of the UN's charter)

How did Marx's words lead to the greatest atrocities on earth? That's some big language coming from the guy who's defending men who put "all men are created equal" in their documents while they continued the slave trade to its highest points in the United States.

The Soviet Union wasn’t exactly some paradise to live in. Millions died under Stalin, Eastern Europe was invaded and occupied by the Soviets, any opposition crushed, and place under heavy Soviet influence. The Great Leap Forward killed millions, re-education camps across the Asian Communist countries, the Khmer Rouge, the current Chinese regime, etc etc. turn out humans aren’t perfect, and that many of our systems have been shit.

Still, I find “All Men are created equal” to be something to follow.

[Pilarcraft]

and Marx's words made way for some of the worst atrocities in the last (and this) century. doesn't make those words any less of what they are. The Bill of Rights... (I would say the Constitution too, but the majority is just a government structure and personally I like Locke's system more than Montesquieu's, that said most of the List of Amendments are stuff that need to be used as a fundamental set of rights. along with most of the UN's charter)

How did Marx's words lead to the greatest atrocities on earth? That's some big language coming from the guy who's defending men who put "all men are created equal" in their documents while they continued the slave trade to its highest points in the United States.

Yeah. but when you say "All men are created equal" and then trade slaves, you're not following what you've said. when you say "The Dictatorship of the Proletariat should take control of the economy until we can create the commune" and then after doing that you end up with stuff like, and I quote,

The Soviet Union wasn’t exactly some paradise to live in. Millions died under Stalin, Eastern Europe was invaded and occupied by the Soviets, any opposition crushed, and place under heavy Soviet influence. The Great Leap Forward killed millions, re-education camps across the Asian Communist countries, the Khmer Rouge, the current Chinese regime, etc etc.

, either the text is shit, or your interpretation of it is.

Which doesn't change the fact that I continued with saying "but it doesn't make those words any less of what they are"

[Topoliani]

https://constitutii.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/1936-en.pdf

Reminder the USSR's constitution was pretty good.

Compared to what exactly? Dirt?

[Pilarcraft]

https://constitutii.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/1936-en.pdf

Reminder the USSR's constitution was pretty good.

Compared to what exactly? Dirt?

... North Korea? maybe? I don't know

[Telconi]

So what specifically about the Bill of Rights and constitution makes you hate them?

It is not that I specifically hate any particular item in these documents. However, the founding texts of the U.S. have been used to promote American exceptionalism.

But the United States is exceptional...

[Dumb Ideologies]

https://constitutii.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/1936-en.pdf

Reminder the USSR's constitution was pretty good.

Compared to what exactly? Dirt?

If even the lowest patch of dirt genuinely belongs to the people a thousand flowers will blossom within.

[Sovaal]

Compared to what exactly? Dirt?

If even the lowest patch of dirt genuinely belongs to the people a thousand flowers will blossom within.

I mean I think the Norks are more concerned with growing arms and nukes then flowers.

[Kubra]

https://constitutii.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/1936-en.pdf

Reminder the USSR's constitution was pretty good.

It also was, y'know, pointless. The constitution could be violated at the drop of a hat. And it was.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

and Marx's words made way for some of the worst atrocities in the last (and this) century. doesn't make those words any less of what they are. The Bill of Rights... (I would say the Constitution too, but the majority is just a government structure and personally I like Locke's system more than Montesquieu's, that said most of the List of Amendments are stuff that need to be used as a fundamental set of rights. along with most of the UN's charter)

Marx's words were just words. They did not do anything. What others, particularly Stalin, did with Marx's words is on Stalin's shoulder's not Marx's.

[Pilarcraft]

and Marx's words made way for some of the worst atrocities in the last (and this) century. doesn't make those words any less of what they are. The Bill of Rights... (I would say the Constitution too, but the majority is just a government structure and personally I like Locke's system more than Montesquieu's, that said most of the List of Amendments are stuff that need to be used as a fundamental set of rights. along with most of the UN's charter)

Marx's words were just words. They did not do anything. What others, particularly Stalin, did with Marx's words is on Stalin's shoulder's not Marx's.

it... went right over your head, didn't it?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I see. Well that’s a shame.

The shame is American exceptionalism.

[Aillyria]

I think the world should be unified under the United States Constitution or a constitution based loosely on it, tbh. The important part is the Bill of Rights. But how do you mean "modified to accommodate 21 century requirements"?

I'm gonna have to ask. do you count every piece of the U.S constitution (along with its... er you could say spin-offs such as the Declaration of Independence) as sometihng the world needs to be based on? because, you know, that might (in theory, at least) end up making something good but it won't be anything a muslim would want.

That's why I believe Islam needs a reformation and modernization first, we need a new updated interpretation of the Quran.

All of it. I am an anti-American American. For me, the only reason to remain in this country is to promote revolution.

So what specifically about the Bill of Rights and constitution makes you hate them?

Muh kommunizum.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

it... went right over your head, didn't it?

If you say so.

[Genivaria]

and Marx's words made way for some of the worst atrocities in the last (and this) century. doesn't make those words any less of what they are. The Bill of Rights... (I would say the Constitution too, but the majority is just a government structure and personally I like Locke's system more than Montesquieu's, that said most of the List of Amendments are stuff that need to be used as a fundamental set of rights. along with most of the UN's charter)

Marx's words were just words. They did not do anything. What others, particularly Stalin, did with Marx's words is on Stalin's shoulder's not Marx's.

And yet you say the opposite about the US Constitution, why the double standard?

[Aillyria]

I see. Well that’s a shame.

The shame is American exceptionalism.

Why is American Exceptionalism a shame? The US is the most exceptional nation in the history of humanity, it's flawed and needs some work, but it's leagues ahead of anyone else's formula. Our system should be the building blocks of a socialist world state, imho.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I think I’m going to give HUAC a call brb

Fortunately, Ike put an end to their treachery.

[Pilarcraft]

The shame is American exceptionalism.

Why is American Exceptionalism a shame? The US is the most exceptional nation in the history of humanity, it's flawed and needs some work, but it's leagues ahead of anyone else's formula. Our system should be the building blocks of a socialist world state, imho.

a nation built almost completely over the concept of private property, individualism, classical liberalism, and even worse refusal to bend over backwards "for the greater good of all" doesn't seem like good blocks for a socialist world state, to be honest.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Why is American Exceptionalism a shame? The US is the most exceptional nation in the history of humanity, it's flawed and needs some work, but it's leagues ahead of anyone else's formula. Our system should be the building blocks of a socialist world state, imho.

Exceptionally bad. From a critical theoretical view, the U.S. is the Empire. Its destruction would be a blessing.

[Thermodolia]

Why is American Exceptionalism a shame? The US is the most exceptional nation in the history of humanity, it's flawed and needs some work, but it's leagues ahead of anyone else's formula. Our system should be the building blocks of a socialist world state, imho.

Exceptionally bad. From a critical theoretical view, the U.S. is the Empire. Its destruction would be a blessing.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

That's why I believe Islam needs a reformation and modernization first, we need a new updated interpretation of the Quran.

Jordan has made some good steps in that direction.