Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Aillyria]

The church of Satan is a water-downed version of Aleister Crowley's thelemic magick.

Then again, given that, if I *had* to identify as anything, it'd be a Satanist. I dunno, maybe because I kind of like the idea of Satan? A necessary evil that isn't actually evil, but misunderstood.

You like the idea of Satan.......

Why would you identify with Satan, but not God (swt)?

[-Ocelot-]

Then again, given that, if I *had* to identify as anything, it'd be a Satanist. I dunno, maybe because I kind of like the idea of Satan? A necessary evil that isn't actually evil, but misunderstood.

You like the idea of Satan.......

Why would you identify with Satan, but not God (swt)?

Not him but satanists are usually atheists and don't literally believe in Satan or God (as beings).

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Not him but satanists are usually atheists and don't literally believe in Satan or God (as beings).

The Church of Satan, influenced by thelema, regards Satan as the personal will. (I probably should point out that Aleister Crowley's Thelema and his Ordo Templi Orientis have no concept of a Satan. LaVey twisted Crowley's ideas into his version of Satanism.) However, there are also other types of Satanism:

Theistic Satanists worship Satan as a God.

Extraterrestrial Satanists (my name for them) regard Satan as the captain of a UFO.

[Cedoria]

Thought as much. Socialists and communists tend not to do the whole monarch thing. Marxism, especially, is pretty anti-religious, especially against those "appointed" by God.

I think Marx's line on religion (literally, line) is probably the most over analysed and most misunderstood line. I wish he never said it. He was literally pointing out that religion is an "optimum" and would supposedly cease under Socialism. It never meant "state Atheism, kill people who believe in god".

It's also his most widely misquoted line, by far. His actual position on religion was much more nuanced than many of the State Atheist regimes seemed to think.

As for monarchies, I regard it as a contradiction to oppose unjust hierarchical power structures and then support an institution that is the very definition of unearned hierarchical power. I don't see how many leftists could justify backing Monarchy, given the implications of hereditary power as an institution. That's applicable regardless of whether the Monarchy is 'constitutional' or not.

[Cedoria]

You like the idea of Satan.......

Why would you identify with Satan, but not God (swt)?

Not him but satanists are usually atheists and don't literally believe in Satan or God (as beings).

No they're not. Most Atheists find the existence of Satan to be just as ludicrous a proposition as the existence of God.

[Ostroeuropa]

Then again, given that, if I *had* to identify as anything, it'd be a Satanist. I dunno, maybe because I kind of like the idea of Satan? A necessary evil that isn't actually evil, but misunderstood.

You like the idea of Satan.......

Why would you identify with Satan, but not God (swt)?

A close read of the His Dark Materials trilogy might be good for understanding much of it, as well as the satanic bible (LaVey) and Paradise Lost. Rejection of several abrahamic values and embracing the opposite, and celebrating Satan as the Lightbringer/morning star who illuminated mankinds conscience through his actions in the garden of eden, for which god punished all of us. (Something indicative of his temperament and values.)

"Republic of heaven" anti-deistic sentiments, proclamations that God is a tyrant, throwing our lot in with the rebellion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Dark_Materials

It functions in part as a retelling and inversion of John Milton's epic Paradise Lost,[1] with Pullman commending humanity for what Milton saw as its most tragic failing, original sin

While Pullman credits humanity, theistic satanists might credit Satan, and symbolically, Satanists in general might.

"I suppose technically, you'd have to put me down as an agnostic. But if there is a God, and he is as the Christians describe him, then he deserves to be put down and rebelled against"

The Pantheocide series also covers similar topics, though with a heavier focus on CoolGuns.

[Cedoria]

It's pretty annoying how people interpret Jesus, Buddha, etc. to have been proto-communists, tbh.

Do you, out of curiosity?

No, I think Jesus was apolitical

Very unlikely. From what we know, he was pretty vocal about wanting to boot the Roman Empire out of the Far East.

That's a political sentiment right there.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Not him but satanists are usually atheists and don't literally believe in Satan or God (as beings).

The Church of Satan, influenced by thelema, regards Satan as the personal will. (I probably should point out that Aleister Crowley's Thelema and his Ordo Templi Orientis have no concept of a Satan. LaVey twisted Crowley's ideas into his version of Satanism.) However, there are also other types of Satanism:

Theistic Satanists worship Satan as a God.

Extraterrestrial Satanists (my name for them) regard Satan as the captain of a UFO.

D-do they also have nuclear weapons?

[shot of Comrade Posadas smiling in back seat]

[Democratic Communist Federation]

[No they're not. Most Atheists find the existence of Satan to be just as ludicrous a proposition as the existence of God.

The Church of Satan (Anton Von LaVey) is atheistic. To them, Satan is a metaphor for self-will.

[War Gears]

Why is it a common trend to try and tie German idealism into being somehow responsible for Nazism?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Why is it a common trend to try and tie German idealism into being somehow responsible for Nazism?

I never knew it was a common trend.

[Genivaria]

Then again, given that, if I *had* to identify as anything, it'd be a Satanist. I dunno, maybe because I kind of like the idea of Satan? A necessary evil that isn't actually evil, but misunderstood.

You like the idea of Satan.......

Why would you identify with Satan, but not God (swt)?

I like the character of Lucifer if you paint him in the same role as Prometheus.
And in the Jewish faith I'm pretty sure he never stopped working for God.

[Salus Maior]

No, I think Jesus was apolitical

Very unlikely. From what we know, he was pretty vocal about wanting to boot the Roman Empire out of the Far East.

That's a political sentiment right there.

...And this is based on what source exactly?

Because it's obviously not the New Testament.

[Sufokia]

What are some recommended tests to see what kind of leftist I am?

[Genivaria]

No, I think Jesus was apolitical

Very unlikely. From what we know, he was pretty vocal about wanting to boot the Roman Empire out of the Far East.

That's a political sentiment right there.

You know now that I think of it Jesus saying that he was King wouldn't necessarily make him a traitor to Rome since Rome had a history of having puppet kings, so that element in the story doesn't really make sense.
But then most Christian tales I've read about that period completely get Rome wrong.
Like Ben-Hur, they didn't fucking have slaves as their oarsmen!

[Ostroeuropa]

Very unlikely. From what we know, he was pretty vocal about wanting to boot the Roman Empire out of the Far East.

That's a political sentiment right there.

You know now that I think of it Jesus saying that he was King wouldn't necessarily make him a traitor to Rome since Rome had a history of having puppet kings, so that element in the story doesn't really make sense.
But then most Christian tales I've read about that period completely get Rome wrong.
Like Ben-Hur, they didn't fucking have slaves as their oarsmen!

"Let's base our navy around ramming shit harder than the other guys based on disciplined coordination, and then put slaves in charge of it. It'll be fine. A single dissenter on the ship if the enemy has none means we lose, but it'll all be fine. Anyway, a navy isn't important to an empire based on the meditteranean seas borders."

I'm having celestia flashbacks.
viewtopic.php?p=26183240#p26183240

No posty.

[Salus Maior]

Very unlikely. From what we know, he was pretty vocal about wanting to boot the Roman Empire out of the Far East.

That's a political sentiment right there.

You know now that I think of it Jesus saying that he was King wouldn't necessarily make him a traitor to Rome since Rome had a history of having puppet kings, so that element in the story doesn't really make sense.
But then most Christian tales I've read about that period completely get Rome wrong.
Like Ben-Hur, they didn't fucking have slaves as their oarsmen!

Ben-Hur was also a book written in the late 1800s/early 1900s by an American I believe.

[Genivaria]

You know now that I think of it Jesus saying that he was King wouldn't necessarily make him a traitor to Rome since Rome had a history of having puppet kings, so that element in the story doesn't really make sense.
But then most Christian tales I've read about that period completely get Rome wrong.
Like Ben-Hur, they didn't fucking have slaves as their oarsmen!

Ben-Hur was also a book written in the late 1800s/early 1900s by an American I believe.

See and that makes sense, but then it was remade several times in film which means this is what modern American Christians believe Rome was like.

[Salus Maior]

Ben-Hur was also a book written in the late 1800s/early 1900s by an American I believe.

See and that makes sense, but then it was remade several times in film which means this is what modern American Christians believe Rome was like.

....Not necessarily. It means that those movies are adaptations of a novel.

And besides, all people who have not thoroughly studied history likely hold a lot of false ideas of what Rome was like, not just Christians or Americans.

In fact, I remember there was this one guy who believed there was a Mediterranean-spanning Spartan Empire.

[Aillyria]

You like the idea of Satan.......

Why would you identify with Satan, but not God (swt)?

A close read of the His Dark Materials trilogy might be good for understanding much of it, as well as the satanic bible (LaVey) and Paradise Lost. Rejection of several abrahamic values and embracing the opposite, and celebrating Satan as the Lightbringer/morning star who illuminated mankinds conscience through his actions in the garden of eden, for which god punished all of us. (Something indicative of his temperament and values.)

"Republic of heaven" anti-deistic sentiments, proclamations that God is a tyrant, throwing our lot in with the rebellion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Dark_Materials

It functions in part as a retelling and inversion of John Milton's epic Paradise Lost,[1] with Pullman commending humanity for what Milton saw as its most tragic failing, original sin

While Pullman credits humanity, theistic satanists might credit Satan, and symbolically, Satanists in general might.

"I suppose technically, you'd have to put me down as an agnostic. But if there is a God, and he is as the Christians describe him, then he deserves to be put down and rebelled against"

The Pantheocide series also covers similar topics, though with a heavier focus on CoolGuns.

I'm not interested in entertaining the ramblings of those who follow Satan.

[Ostroeuropa]

A close read of the His Dark Materials trilogy might be good for understanding much of it, as well as the satanic bible (LaVey) and Paradise Lost. Rejection of several abrahamic values and embracing the opposite, and celebrating Satan as the Lightbringer/morning star who illuminated mankinds conscience through his actions in the garden of eden, for which god punished all of us. (Something indicative of his temperament and values.)

"Republic of heaven" anti-deistic sentiments, proclamations that God is a tyrant, throwing our lot in with the rebellion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Dark_Materials



While Pullman credits humanity, theistic satanists might credit Satan, and symbolically, Satanists in general might.



The Pantheocide series also covers similar topics, though with a heavier focus on CoolGuns.

I'm not interested in entertaining the ramblings of those who follow Satan.

Then why ask the question?

The satanic bible isn't anything groundbreaking, except in as far as they claim that Ayn Rand plagiarized it to found objectivism, and for its section on non-theistic ritualism.

His dark materials is a celebration of knowledge, including carnal knowledge, and a rejection of authoritarian attempts to suppress knowledge, as well as a book that covers the "Republic of heaven" ideals. It is also a childrens fantasy book. The themes are hidden fairly well, and the religious criticism of it as "Indoctrinating" may have some merit given how subtle it is.

Pantheocide is glorious shlock focusing on the apocalypse, and humanity outperforming expectations when Hell invades earth with bronze spears and we go "lol, you guys are fuuuuucked." and then we invade heaven for good measure.

[Folina]

invite me to a region with realism and roleplaying thank you

[Aillyria]

I'm not interested in entertaining the ramblings of those who follow Satan.

Then why ask the question?

Asking the question to a single individual is different from suggestions that I read their Satanic literature.

[Ostroeuropa]

Then why ask the question?

Asking the question to a single individual is different from suggestions that I read their Satanic literature.

Fair enough, that's true. Basically, it comes from a rejection of one particular sentient creatures perspective being worth more than any other in terms of forming a consensus, and god is ultimately merely another sentient creature that has proclaimed themselves dictator. We are not enslaved to our parents, whence then gods authority?
Brute force?

Rather die, thanks.

Satan is celebrated in this view as a righteous rebel against a tyrannical and brutal authority, despite knowing the consequence, ultimately out jesusing jesus.

This is the Satanic view.

The HDM view portrays Satan as a promethean figure and notes his crime appears to be giving mankind a conscience and/or carnal knowledge, something only an evil entity could oppose.

The Pantheocide view questions by what right god seeks to end our custodianship of creation, given that he has abandoned it, and asserts our science is stronger than his voodoo.

Each of those views are supported by the books and those that follow in their interpretation. In HDM, Satan is merely a beleaguered angel who has led the rebellion for millenia, but is ultimately sidelined by the humans taking charge, two of whom successfully damn themselves to an eternity of oblivion but drag god down with them.

[Genivaria]

I'm not interested in entertaining the ramblings of those who follow Satan.

Then why ask the question?

The satanic bible isn't anything groundbreaking, except in as far as they claim that Ayn Rand plagiarized it to found objectivism, and for its section on non-theistic ritualism.

His dark materials is a celebration of knowledge, including carnal knowledge, and a rejection of authoritarian attempts to suppress knowledge, as well as a book that covers the "Republic of heaven" ideals. It is also a childrens fantasy book. The themes are hidden fairly well, and the religious criticism of it as "Indoctrinating" may have some merit given how subtle it is.

Pantheocide is glorious shlock focusing on the apocalypse, and humanity outperforming expectations when Hell invades earth with bronze spears and we go "lol, you guys are fuuuuucked." and then we invade heaven for good measure.

Hehehe, we nuked the devil twice.