Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Alsheb]

Fascism isn't limited to "edgy teens with frog memes". We have growing fascist parties all over Europe and America alike. In case you missed it, a fascist almost won the presidency of your own country.

And secondly: yes, Daesh are fascists too. And they're dangerous. Fascists come in all religious kinds.Your point being?

>mfw he actually think Marine le Pen is a fascist
>mfw he unironically use the term Islamo-Fascist

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She definitely is. She is heading a fascist party founded by her father who was openly fascist.

And yes, there is such a thing as Muslim fascists. Daesh is a good example.

[Aellex]

What does me being European have to do with anything? We have fascist movements all over the place, and we have Antifa movements as well.

The main difference being that so far, in Europe antifascism isn't demonised by the mainstream as much as it is the US.

They indeed exist like they will always do but they aren't mainstream tho. The F.N, A.F.D, etc are all Hard-Nat, not fascists.

As for Antifa, it ain't diabolised but it sure is portrayed like the shit-stain of a movement it actually is.

[Alsheb]

What does me being European have to do with anything? We have fascist movements all over the place, and we have Antifa movements as well.

The main difference being that so far, in Europe antifascism isn't demonised by the mainstream as much as it is the US.

They indeed exist like they will always do but they aren't mainstream tho. The F.N, A.F.D, etc are all Hard-Nat, not fascists.

As for Antifa, it ain't diabolised but it sure is portrayed like the shit-stain of a movement it actually is.

"Hard-nationalist". A new entry for the great book of euphemisms of "we're totally not fascist, I swear".

[Washington Resistance Army]

Fucking lol, I get you're European and all but this is just horrifically uninformed.

What does me being European have to do with anything? We have fascist movements all over the place, and we have Antifa movements as well.

The main difference being that so far, in Europe antifascism isn't demonised by the mainstream as much as it is the US.

It has everything to do with you being out of touch and having no idea what you're talking about.

[Alsheb]

And yes, also in Europe antifascism is often portrayed in a bad light. Because kicked over trash cans areso much worse than institutionalised racism and organisations that openly proclaim racial supremacism and ethnic violence, apparently...

[Aellex]

She definitely is. She is heading a fascist party founded by her father who was openly fascist.

And yes, there is such a thing as Muslim fascists. Daesh is a good example.

Nah, she really ain't. Nationalism =/= Fascism.
Her Father indeed was quite openly fascist and so was the F.N in his time but now he's out and his daughter did her best to change that image to get into the mainstream.
If you want genuine fascists, look at the identitaires.

[Alsheb]

What does me being European have to do with anything? We have fascist movements all over the place, and we have Antifa movements as well.

The main difference being that so far, in Europe antifascism isn't demonised by the mainstream as much as it is the US.

It has everything to do with you being out of touch and having no idea what you're talking about.

Out of touch with what? With the fact that organisations that proclaim ethnic violence are popping up all over the damn place?

[Alsheb]

She definitely is. She is heading a fascist party founded by her father who was openly fascist.

And yes, there is such a thing as Muslim fascists. Daesh is a good example.

Nah, she really ain't. Nationalism =/= Fascism.
Her Father indeed was quite openly fascist and so was the F.N in his time but now he's out and his daughter did her best to change that image to get into the mainstream.
If you want genuine fascists, look at the identitaires.

Getting into the mainstream is a tactic. It's not a change of identity.

[Aellex]

"Hard-nationalist". A new entry for the great book of euphemisms of "we're totally not fascist, I swear".

And despite that you people act all outraged when someone make a joke about everything right of Mao being fascistic to you.

[Dumb Ideologies]

They indeed exist like they will always do but they aren't mainstream tho. The F.N, A.F.D, etc are all Hard-Nat, not fascists.

As for Antifa, it ain't diabolised but it sure is portrayed like the shit-stain of a movement it actually is.

"Hard-nationalist". A new entry for the great book of euphemisms of "we're totally not fascist, I swear".

Your edition of that book requires forklift for pick up.

[Alsheb]

"Hard-nationalist". A new entry for the great book of euphemisms of "we're totally not fascist, I swear".

And despite that you people act all outraged when someone make a joke about everything right of Mao being fascistic to you.

There is a range of other ideologies. Socialism, liberalism, christian-democracy and standard nationalism.
Le Pen is far to the right of every one of those.

[Aellex]

And yes, also in Europe antifascism is often portrayed in a bad light.

And legitimately so. Domestic terrorists are a scourge.

Because kicked over trash cans areso much worse than institutionalised racism and organisations that openly proclaim racial supremacism and ethnic violence, apparently...

>implying institutionalised racism exists
>implying even a tenth of the people they attack actually do that

In the end, what people see are criminals destroying properties and advocating for murders all of that to """ defend """ against Nazis that most of the time only exist inside their imagination.
Of course the public is going to dislike them.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It has everything to do with you being out of touch and having no idea what you're talking about.

Out of touch with what? With the fact that organisations that proclaim ethnic violence are popping up all over the damn place?

>Considering that they are faced with the most violent and vile creatures to walk this earth

That's just objectively false. The biggest and scariest fascist group here is made up of 600 heavily tattooed morons who do virtually nothing but wave flags and shout slogans every few months. Compare that to religious (generally Muslim but there's a few noteworthy examples from other religions) fundamentalists and they're blown out of the water in terms of violence and general vileness.

After all, when was the last time Jeff Schoep threw LGBT's off a 5 story roof?

[Aellex]

There is a range of other ideologies. Socialism, liberalism, christian-democracy and standard nationalism.
Le Pen is far to the right of every one of those.

Or so you claim. In the mean time, I see people from the Right ranting about how she's a "dangerous Bolshevik".
Almost seems like both sides are just trying to distance themselves from someone that is closer to them than they would like to admit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Crysuko]

Speaking of which, I often hear people worrying that the right is gaining in Europe, but I disagree. They don't seem to do anything more than periodically cause a ruckus in the streets and then vanish. Are there any far right organisations with significant influence?

And let's not forget, they have their own ideological schisms. Anyone remember unite the right?

[Taihei Tengoku]

They don't seem to do anything rather than gain seats in parliaments and influence national policy :o

[The Parkus Empire]

Yeah, heh heh, guilty. Although I think you might be exaggerating by calling it dehumanizing, since it is not treating humans as animals. I would say it is just humbling.

I can tell you that the people I personally know found it to be dehumanizing. To borrow Patricia Hill Collins' term, I think we need to shift the center of our thinking (technically called standpoint epistemology) and try to look at the world through the eyes of those who have been othered or marginalized.

By "guilty" I mean I get food stamps and subsidized housing. Tbh, I do not see how they marginalize me, as they are not forced on me.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

Genuine question: why is communism still an ideology a select few still think works and will work?

[Alsheb]

Genuine question: why is communism still an ideology a select few still think works and will work?

I could ask you the same about capitalism.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Genuine question: why is communism still an ideology a select few still think works and will work?

I could ask you the same about capitalism.

Well for one I can look outside and see it working.

[Alsheb]

Speaking of which, I often hear people worrying that the right is gaining in Europe, but I disagree. They don't seem to do anything more than periodically cause a ruckus in the streets and then vanish. Are there any far right organisations with significant influence?

And let's not forget, they have their own ideological schisms. Anyone remember unite the right?

The problem is not with the far right organisations themselves, the problem is that they successfully have pushed the entire political scene to the right over the past decades.

In Belgium for example, the so-called 70 point programme of the far right Vlaams Blok party, that was considered a scandalous document in the 90s, has been almost completely realised by now, even though the Vlaans Blok never was part of any government. It's just that what used to be considered outrageously right-wing and racist is now often considered centre-right to even mainstream.

[Alsheb]

I could ask you the same about capitalism.

Well for one I can look outside and see it working.

Try to look further than your rich friends.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

Genuine question: why is communism still an ideology a select few still think works and will work?

I could ask you the same about capitalism.

I'm not that positive about that, either, but that's not the question. The question regards communism. You haven't answered it.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Well for one I can look outside and see it working.

Try to look further than your rich friends.

I don't know anyone who is rich.

[Alsheb]

I could ask you the same about capitalism.

I'm not that positive about that, either, but that's not the question. The question regards communism. You haven't answered it.

I see no reason why it would not work. It's an ideology that puts forward an alternative society in which greed is no longer the motor of society, and in which inequality and poverty can truly be rooted out.

The entire "it didn't work" premise is based solely on the Soviet Union, and even then it's based on falsehoods, since the USSR fell precisely because it was carrying out market reforms and walked away from the path of Marxism.