Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Aillyria]

Nicolas was ok....I guess.


German culture during that time was more progressive and superior to that of Russia, before Peter and Katherine, Russia was a backwater.

Could you define "progressive", here?

Prussia and France didn't have serfdom for one, better military technology and organization, better social practices and organization.

[The Parkus Empire]

Could you define "progressive", here?

Prussia and France didn't have serfdom for one, better military technology and organization, better social practices and organization.

90% of serfdom in Russia was created by Pete and Cathy.

Please explain what practices you are talking about.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

90% of serfdom in Russia was created by Pete and Cathy.

And the other 10% were created by my crazy uncle Vladimir (at least that's what some down-and-out guy told me on the street).

[Aillyria]

Prussia and France didn't have serfdom for one, better military technology and organization, better social practices and organization.

90% of serfdom in Russia was created by Pete and Cathy.

Please explain what practices you are talking about.

The administrative reforms and social reforms:
Destruction/weakening of the Boyars
Reorganization of administrative units (guverniyas/Landsrats)
Tax reform
Reorganization of the military along European lines...etc.

[El Hamidah]

Honestly I care more about organising and direct action than getting mired in squabbles over personal beliefs

Yeah, you can kill us afterward.

Plenty of Leftists are religious. Myself included.

Religion will live on under socialism, unbound by the churches and denominations so it's spirit can be free to evolve into what it was meant to be.

It's true that moralizing, sectarian, ritual worshipping ultraconservatives will have no place. But who has really ever cared about your struggles except you?

[Kubra]

Honestly I care more about organising and direct action than getting mired in squabbles over personal beliefs

Yeah, you can kill us afterward.

only calvinists allowed sry

[Northern Davincia]

Yeah, you can kill us afterward.

only calvinists allowed sry

[Kubra]

only calvinists allowed sry

jeez you could always convert
perhaps you're already predestined to

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Plenty of Leftists are religious. Myself included.

Ditto, and devoutly so. The association of piety and spirituality with social conservatism is a right-wing fiction. It may play well politically and win some votes. However, the characterization is historically inaccurate. Many of the greatest prophets and saints of various religions were, by modern standards (even if the term, or its rough equivalent, itself did not exist back them) were Leftists and revolutionaries. Jesus, Muhammad, and Mahatma Gandhi were all hardly right-wingers in their own respective times.

[Salus Maior]

> not organizing warrior monks to defend yourselves.

Pretty weak.

Too Catholic.

Indeed. Orthodox clergy don't fight, they just bless Orthodox laymen to fight.

Not that such is a bad thing necessarily.

[Aillyria]

Plenty of Leftists are religious. Myself included.

Ditto, and devoutly so. The association of piety and spirituality with social conservatism is a right-wing fiction. It may play well politically and win some votes. However, the characterization is historically inaccurate. Many of the greatest prophets and saints of various religions were, by modern standards (even if the term, or its rough equivalent, itself did not exist back them) were Leftists and revolutionaries. Jesus, Muhammad, and Mahatma Gandhi were all hardly right-wingers in their own respective times.

Eh....I dislike the terms left and right.....I don't see how anyone could fit neatly in either of those archetypes, unless they're a caricature.

Isa (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) were above such catagorization amyway.

[Salus Maior]

Ditto, and devoutly so. The association of piety and spirituality with social conservatism is a right-wing fiction. It may play well politically and win some votes. However, the characterization is historically inaccurate. Many of the greatest prophets and saints of various religions were, by modern standards (even if the term, or its rough equivalent, itself did not exist back them) were Leftists and revolutionaries. Jesus, Muhammad, and Mahatma Gandhi were all hardly right-wingers in their own respective times.

Eh....I dislike the terms left and right.....I don't see how anyone could fit neatly in either of those archetypes, unless they're a caricature.

Isa (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) were above such catagorization amyway.

Tbf, political parties didn't really exist back then.

[Aillyria]

Eh....I dislike the terms left and right.....I don't see how anyone could fit neatly in either of those archetypes, unless they're a caricature.

Isa (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) were above such catagorization amyway.

Tbf, political parties didn't really exist back then.

Very true.

The left vs right thing doesn't work of me anyway. I see things as more, socialism vs non-socialism, social conservativism vs social "liberalism"~marxism, and theocracy vs secularism.

[War Gears]

Plenty of Leftists are religious. Myself included.

Ditto, and devoutly so. The association of piety and spirituality with social conservatism is a right-wing fiction. It may play well politically and win some votes. However, the characterization is historically inaccurate. Many of the greatest prophets and saints of various religions were, by modern standards (even if the term, or its rough equivalent, itself did not exist back them) were Leftists and revolutionaries. Jesus, Muhammad, and Mahatma Gandhi were all hardly right-wingers in their own respective times.

Trying to argue for religious figures being either way sort of annoys me because the politicization blocks their main teachings. Both Mahavira and Buddha are considered "caste reformers" who were opposed to the caste system (which is a complete fiction) which lead to "Navayana Buddhism," and other horrible bastardizations.

[The Snazzylands]

Read Marx. And koprotkin, bachunin. Hell, read them all.

Better yet, don't. You'll just waste your time.

"Exposing myself to viewpoints from people I don't already agree with is a waste of time."

[Aillyria]

Better yet, don't. You'll just waste your time.

"Exposing myself to viewpoints from people I don't already agree with is a waste of time."

Bakunin is good, Marx is decent. Sorel and Proudhon are crème de la crème.

[Mattopilos II]

Better yet, don't. You'll just waste your time.

"Exposing myself to viewpoints from people I don't already agree with is a waste of time."

"But changing your mind often? No problemo"

[El Hamidah]

Plenty of Leftists are religious. Myself included.

Ditto, and devoutly so. The association of piety and spirituality with social conservatism is a right-wing fiction. It may play well politically and win some votes. However, the characterization is historically inaccurate. Many of the greatest prophets and saints of various religions were, by modern standards (even if the term, or its rough equivalent, itself did not exist back them) were Leftists and revolutionaries. Jesus, Muhammad, and Mahatma Gandhi were all hardly right-wingers in their own respective times.

Jesus was certainly. Not too sure about Muhammad though.

You're a Marxist though right? How do you personally reconcile your religion with Marx's Materialism?
I've gotten a few interesting answers from Marxists about that. From claiming God is the Material world in it's totality to claiming there is a God but he rises from nature/the material.

[El Hamidah]

Ditto, and devoutly so. The association of piety and spirituality with social conservatism is a right-wing fiction. It may play well politically and win some votes. However, the characterization is historically inaccurate. Many of the greatest prophets and saints of various religions were, by modern standards (even if the term, or its rough equivalent, itself did not exist back them) were Leftists and revolutionaries. Jesus, Muhammad, and Mahatma Gandhi were all hardly right-wingers in their own respective times.

Trying to argue for religious figures being either way sort of annoys me because the politicization blocks their main teachings. Both Mahavira and Buddha are considered "caste reformers" who were opposed to the caste system (which is a complete fiction) which lead to "Navayana Buddhism," and other horrible bastardizations.

A lot misunderstand the religious meaning of the caste system as a way of measuring character to begin with. It's been degenerated in Indian society as a form of social organization but it's meaning is to classify the main spiritual/personal tendencies of people.

Anyway, I think it's safe to say that the examples he gave were revolutionaries. If not proto communists.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Eh....I dislike the terms left and right.....I don't see how anyone could fit neatly in either of those archetypes, unless they're a caricature.

Isa (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) were above such catagorization amyway.

As a supporter of various liberation theologies, that is the way I understand divine Revelation. The Prophets are revolutionaries, not reactionaries.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Jesus was certainly. Not too sure about Muhammad though.

The Prophet Muḥammad was even more visibly a revolutionary than Jesus. Muḥammad defensively fought for the liberation of His followers when attacked by His enemies.

You're a Marxist though right? How do you personally reconcile your religion with Marx's Materialism?
I've gotten a few interesting answers from Marxists about that. From claiming God is the Material world in it's totality to claiming there is a God but he rises from nature/the material.

There are many Marxisms, not just mine. Mine is a fusion of Luxemburgism, Antifa, and Bhaskarian critical realism. Bhaskar believed in a nondual spirituality and practiced a form of meditation.

[Alsheb]

Ditto, and devoutly so. The association of piety and spirituality with social conservatism is a right-wing fiction. It may play well politically and win some votes. However, the characterization is historically inaccurate. Many of the greatest prophets and saints of various religions were, by modern standards (even if the term, or its rough equivalent, itself did not exist back them) were Leftists and revolutionaries. Jesus, Muhammad, and Mahatma Gandhi were all hardly right-wingers in their own respective times.

Jesus was certainly. Not too sure about Muhammad though.

You're a Marxist though right? How do you personally reconcile your religion with Marx's Materialism?
I've gotten a few interesting answers from Marxists about that. From claiming God is the Material world in it's totality to claiming there is a God but he rises from nature/the material.

Dialectical and historical materialism are scientific methods with which to analyse and understand the workings of human society.
That is in no way contradictory to the possibility of there being a higher Creator who created the universe in the first place.

[Alsheb]

Eh....I dislike the terms left and right.....I don't see how anyone could fit neatly in either of those archetypes, unless they're a caricature.

Isa (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) were above such catagorization amyway.

As a supporter of various liberation theologies, that is the way I understand divine Revelation. The Prophets are revolutionaries, not reactionaries.

So much this.

[Taihei Tengoku]

Right down to the highly destructive jihads :(

[Mattopilos II]

Urge to Spookpost, rising