Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Sanctissima]

Y'know, there's ways to win-over the military other than violently purging everyone who disagrees with you.

But not surer ways in such a situation where it just takes one ambitious officer with men more loyal to him than you.

Aye, but again, there are other means. And one has to balance the pros and cons.

Autistically hamstringing your military just to ensure it won't pull a coup d'etat is certainly far worse for a nation than the benefits it might impart.

[The Parkus Empire]

Humanism is Christianity for the secular age

Humanism comes from Cicero

[Genivaria]

Humanism is Christianity for the secular age

Humanism comes from Cicero

Are you capable of nuance?

[The Parkus Empire]

But not surer ways in such a situation where it just takes one ambitious officer with men more loyal to him than you.

Aye, but again, there are other means. And one has to balance the pros and cons.

Autistically hamstringing your military just to ensure it won't pull a coup d'etat is certainly far worse for a nation than the benefits it might impart.

Stalin only cares about communism, for that to be achieved he would annihilate his country gladly.

[Genivaria]

So what happened to the officers from the Imperial army?
Purged?

There were still a few, but the civil war was 19 years earlier by 1936, many had retired. The most notable would be Marshal of the Soviet Union, Semyon Budyonny, who had been a cavalry officer in the Imperial Army.

But, also remember that that meant that these men were educated mostly before the First World War, so their education was only really valuable in a theoretical sense.

...okay fair point there.
Not like the Old School of Pre-WW1 officers were that capable to begin with.

[United Muscovite Nations]

But not surer ways in such a situation where it just takes one ambitious officer with men more loyal to him than you.

Sad that in this case the disloyal and ambitious officer was already in charge.

The idea of Stalin as disloyal is carefully crafted Cold War propaganda by both Trotskyists and Neocons to discredit him. In reality, Stalin was simply trying to make the best of a bad situation that the revolution found itself in. We can debate the outcome of his attempts, but it would be wrong to dispute his motivations.

[Genivaria]

Aye, but again, there are other means. And one has to balance the pros and cons.

Autistically hamstringing your military just to ensure it won't pull a coup d'etat is certainly far worse for a nation than the benefits it might impart.

Stalin only cares about communism, for that to be achieved he would annihilate his country gladly.

^Stalin. The best ally the Nazis could hope for.

[Sanctissima]

Aye, but again, there are other means. And one has to balance the pros and cons.

Autistically hamstringing your military just to ensure it won't pull a coup d'etat is certainly far worse for a nation than the benefits it might impart.

Stalin only cares about communism, for that to be achieved he would annihilate his country gladly.

Considering his policy of Socialism-in-one-country, I doubt that.

And at any rate, cuckolding your army so thoroughly that it can barely defeat Finland isn't exactly helping Communist ambitions.

[The Parkus Empire]

Humanism comes from Cicero

Are you capable of nuance?

Sure. I am also capable of recognizing that humanism, contrary to Nietzsche assertion, is not simply secularized Christianity.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Stalin only cares about communism, for that to be achieved he would annihilate his country gladly.

Considering his policy of Socialism-in-one-country, I doubt that.

And at any rate, cuckolding your army so thoroughly that it can barely defeat Finland isn't exactly helping Communist ambitions.

Socialism in One Country was a temporary state which would use Russia as a base for communism to spread. By 1939, Stalin was creating a military machine that very well could have been capable of subjugating all of Europe, and it was only the Second World War that prevented this.

[The Parkus Empire]

Stalin only cares about communism, for that to be achieved he would annihilate his country gladly.

^Stalin. The best ally the Nazis could hope for.

Heh, no, that would be an officer who might ally with the Nazis.

[Genivaria]

Considering his policy of Socialism-in-one-country, I doubt that.

And at any rate, cuckolding your army so thoroughly that it can barely defeat Finland isn't exactly helping Communist ambitions.

Socialism in One Country was a temporary state which would use Russia as a base for communism to spread. By 1939, Stalin was creating a military machine that very well could have been capable of subjugating all of Europe, and it was only the Second World War that prevented this.

And the advent of the nuclear bomb.
I wholly believe that the Soviets could've push the allies out of Europe post-ww2.
Defeated the US on their own soil? Not so much.

[The Parkus Empire]

Stalin only cares about communism, for that to be achieved he would annihilate his country gladly.

Considering his policy of Socialism-in-one-country, I doubt that.

And at any rate, cuckolding your army so thoroughly that it can barely defeat Finland isn't exactly helping Communist ambitions.

SiOC meant "let's not declare war on the whole planet," not that Stalin stopped supportioning internationalism

[Bakery Hill]

That's why he shouldn't have bought the fucking land. His doing so was strongly opposed by Federalists for good reason.

No it needed to happen regardless.
America would remain weak as long as it restrained itself to the east coast.

It would have probably been a better country for it. But if you want to try and justify genocide in a leftist fashion don't let me stop you.

[Webus]

Humanism is Christianity for the secular age

Humanism comes from Cicero

that's not quite what i mean

[Genivaria]

No it needed to happen regardless.
America would remain weak as long as it restrained itself to the east coast.

It would have probably been a better country for it. But if you want to try and justify genocide in a leftist fashion don't let me stop you.

For remaining on the East coast? Yeah not likely.
And I'm not justifying anything.

[Sanctissima]

Considering his policy of Socialism-in-one-country, I doubt that.

And at any rate, cuckolding your army so thoroughly that it can barely defeat Finland isn't exactly helping Communist ambitions.

Socialism in One Country was a temporary state which would use Russia as a base for communism to spread. By 1939, Stalin was creating a military machine that very well could have been capable of subjugating all of Europe, and it was only the Second World War that prevented this.

Hence why it would be necessary to actually maintain the USSR as an entity to achieve his broader goals.

On the point of Stalin stockpiling a massive military-industrial complex, I agree. Despite the early successes of Barbarossa, the sheer scale of the Soviet military machine completely caught them off-guard.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Socialism in One Country was a temporary state which would use Russia as a base for communism to spread. By 1939, Stalin was creating a military machine that very well could have been capable of subjugating all of Europe, and it was only the Second World War that prevented this.

And the advent of the nuclear bomb.
I wholly believe that the Soviets could've push the allies out of Europe post-ww2.
Defeated the US on their own soil? Not so much.

Yes, but the Soviets didn't want to make that effort, and the nuclear bomb probably wouldn't have been made without WWII. Just looking at the increases in size and mechanization of the Soviet military between 1939 and 1941 is astounding, and that doesn't consider all the stuff they were in the process of building.

[The Widening Gyre]

Humanism is Christianity for the secular age

Humanism comes from Cicero

The John McCain of late republican Rome was an inheritor of an older Greek tradition. If he should get credit for anything, it's the historical happenstance that lead to his discovery in the Renaissance.

[Genivaria]

Humanism comes from Cicero

The John McCain of late republican Rome was an inheritor of an older Greek tradition. If he should get credit for anything, it's the historical happenstance that lead to his discovery in the Renaissance.

Besides which Renaissance Humanism is not what most people are talking about when they use the word Humanism today.
Which is why I accused Parkus of being incapable of nuance.

[Sanctissima]

Considering his policy of Socialism-in-one-country, I doubt that.

And at any rate, cuckolding your army so thoroughly that it can barely defeat Finland isn't exactly helping Communist ambitions.

SiOC meant "let's not declare war on the whole planet," not that Stalin stopped supportioning internationalism

The entire point was to unite the world under the leadership of the USSR, not to kill off the country.

Sacrificing the USSR for any reason whatsoever would have been antithetical to Stalin's ideals.

[Bakery Hill]

It would have probably been a better country for it. But if you want to try and justify genocide in a leftist fashion don't let me stop you.

For remaining on the East coast? Yeah not likely.
And I'm not justifying anything.

> Parkus condemns purchase because of all the genocide.
"No it needed to happen regardless."

Sorry but I can't read that exchange any other way.

[Sanctissima]

No it needed to happen regardless.
America would remain weak as long as it restrained itself to the east coast.

It would have probably been a better country for it. But if you want to try and justify genocide in a leftist fashion don't let me stop you.

It probably would have been retaken by the British in such a scenario.

But since you're so quick to judge, kindly remind me how Australia didn't do the exact same thing with its own Aboriginal population. :^)

[The Parkus Empire]

Humanism comes from Cicero

The John McCain of late republican Rome was an inheritor of an older Greek tradition. If he should get credit for anything, it's the historical happenstance that lead to his discovery in the Renaissance.

Eh, John McCain is about foreign wars, whereas Cicreo said fighting wars except to protect allies was destroying Rome. But yeah, his identification of humanity with God, and seeing each human as a piece, is older tradition; and yes, his rediscovery was why he was so influntial.

[The Parkus Empire]

The John McCain of late republican Rome was an inheritor of an older Greek tradition. If he should get credit for anything, it's the historical happenstance that lead to his discovery in the Renaissance.

Besides which Renaissance Humanism is not what most people are talking about when they use the word Humanism today.
Which is why I accused Parkus of being incapable of nuance.

Humanism of today came out of the renaissance.