26 Dead including children at San Antonio Church massacre

[Conserative Morality]

According to CNN the guy wasn't dishonorably discharged, he was discharged on bad conduct which for some reason doesn't signal anything in checks. Seems like that should change.

Also, CM, if you see this later Dianne Feinstein won her first elected office before the NRA became really politically active. Told you she's a dinosaur

Fuck, she is old.

[Imperializt Russia]

After three. Centuries.

The Black Death "propelled Europe to Democracy".

The invasion of Korea in the 15th century "propelled Japan to Democracy".

The freedom train travels slowly in Britain, and breaks down often, this is an argument because? Point stands that overthrowing a monarch who tried to consolidate power is a good thing, and progress towards democracy.

What do you think Cromwell did if not "try to consolidate power"?

Literal military dictatorship.

[Sovaal]

All these are non-restrited, like the stereotypical hunting rifle.

I'd prefer to see the piece of legislation detailing what is and is not a restricted firearm. A web page from a firearms outlet doesn't give me specifics.

Prohibited firearms include:

Handguns
with a barrel length less than to 105 millimetres (4.1 in), or;
that are designed to discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition;
exceptions are stated in the Regulations Prescribing Exclusions from Certain Definitions of the Criminal Code International Sporting Competition Handguns[42]
Rifles and shotguns that have been altered by sawing, cutting or any other means, so that:
the barrel length is inferior to 457 millimetres (18.0 in) (regardless of overall length), or;
the overall length is inferior to 660 millimetres (26 in)
Firearms which have fully automatic fire capability, or "converted automatics" (i.e.: firearms which were originally fully automatic, but have been modified to discharge ammunition in a semi-automatic fashion)
Firearms prescribed as prohibited by the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (SOR/98-462):.[30] This includes all versions (even semi-automatic) versions of certain military weapons such as the AK-47 and the FN-FAL.
Firearm capable of discharging dart or other object carrying electric current or substance, including Taser Public Defender and any variant or modified version of it
Firearm known as SSS-1 Stinger and any similar firearm designed or of a size to fit in the palm of the hand
Hundreds of other firearms listed by name, including any variants or modified versions. The list includes shotguns, carbines, rifles, pistols, and submachine guns.[30]

Restricted firearms are:[43]

Any handgun that is not prohibited (note: handguns are prohibited if the barrel length is inferior to 105 millimetres (4.1 in); handguns cannot be non-restricted)
Any firearm that is:
not prohibited
that has a barrel length inferior to 470 millimetres (18.5 in), and
is capable of operating in a semi-automatic manner
Any firearm that can be fired when the overall length has been reduced by folding, telescoping, or other means to less than 660 millimetres (26 in)
Firearms prescribed as restricted by the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (SOR/98-462):[30]
The firearms of the designs commonly known as the High Standard Model 10, Series A shotgun and the High Standard Model 10, Series B shotgun, and any variants or modified versions of them.
The firearm of the design commonly known as the M-16 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the
Colt AR-15; Colt AR-15 SPI/Sporter/Collapsible Stock Model/A2/A2 Carbine/A2 Government Model Rifle/A2 Government Model Target Rifle/A2 Government Model Carbine/A2 Sporter II/A2 H-BAR/A2 Delta H-BAR/A2 Delta H-BAR Match/9mm Carbine; Armalite AR-15; AAI M15; AP74; EAC J-15; PWA Commando; SGW XM15A; SGW CAR-AR; SWD AR-15; and
any 22-calibre rimfire variant, including the
Mitchell M-16A-1/22, Mitchell M-16/22, Mitchell CAR-15/22, and AP74 Auto Rifle.
(Note: legally, restricted firearms can only be discharged at shooting ranges; so while one can use them in competitions, one cannot use them for hunting)

Non-restricted firearms are:

any other rifle or shotgun, other than those referred to above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada#Classification_of_firearms
E: If you still want more I'll see what I can find.

[Imperializt Russia]

I've been saying for years that the media doesn't need to report the names of the shooters or terrorists. Focus on the victims not the perp

But TV ratings are more important than people's lives!

I do hope that's just an attack on TV networks that do thirst for ratings over journalistic ethics, and not somehow against the "gun grabbers".

[Albrenia]

I've been saying for years that the media doesn't need to report the names of the shooters or terrorists. Focus on the victims not the perp

But TV ratings are more important than people's lives!

Sadly, that's the media bosses' actual view of things. The people don't help by encouraging it with their buying/viewing habits.

[Gig em Aggies]

I'd prefer to see the piece of legislation detailing what is and is not a restricted firearm. A web page from a firearms outlet doesn't give me specifics.

Prohibited firearms include:

Handguns
with a barrel length less than to 105 millimetres (4.1 in), or;
that are designed to discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition;
exceptions are stated in the Regulations Prescribing Exclusions from Certain Definitions of the Criminal Code International Sporting Competition Handguns[42]
Rifles and shotguns that have been altered by sawing, cutting or any other means, so that:
the barrel length is inferior to 457 millimetres (18.0 in) (regardless of overall length), or;
the overall length is inferior to 660 millimetres (26 in)
Firearms which have fully automatic fire capability, or "converted automatics" (i.e.: firearms which were originally fully automatic, but have been modified to discharge ammunition in a semi-automatic fashion)
Firearms prescribed as prohibited by the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (SOR/98-462):.[30] This includes all versions (even semi-automatic) versions of certain military weapons such as the AK-47 and the FN-FAL.
Firearm capable of discharging dart or other object carrying electric current or substance, including Taser Public Defender and any variant or modified version of it
Firearm known as SSS-1 Stinger and any similar firearm designed or of a size to fit in the palm of the hand
Hundreds of other firearms listed by name, including any variants or modified versions. The list includes shotguns, carbines, rifles, pistols, and submachine guns.[30]

Restricted firearms are:[43]

Any handgun that is not prohibited (note: handguns are prohibited if the barrel length is inferior to 105 millimetres (4.1 in); handguns cannot be non-restricted)
Any firearm that is:
not prohibited
that has a barrel length inferior to 470 millimetres (18.5 in), and
is capable of operating in a semi-automatic manner
Any firearm that can be fired when the overall length has been reduced by folding, telescoping, or other means to less than 660 millimetres (26 in)
Firearms prescribed as restricted by the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (SOR/98-462):[30]
The firearms of the designs commonly known as the High Standard Model 10, Series A shotgun and the High Standard Model 10, Series B shotgun, and any variants or modified versions of them.
The firearm of the design commonly known as the M-16 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the
Colt AR-15; Colt AR-15 SPI/Sporter/Collapsible Stock Model/A2/A2 Carbine/A2 Government Model Rifle/A2 Government Model Target Rifle/A2 Government Model Carbine/A2 Sporter II/A2 H-BAR/A2 Delta H-BAR/A2 Delta H-BAR Match/9mm Carbine; Armalite AR-15; AAI M15; AP74; EAC J-15; PWA Commando; SGW XM15A; SGW CAR-AR; SWD AR-15; and
any 22-calibre rimfire variant, including the
Mitchell M-16A-1/22, Mitchell M-16/22, Mitchell CAR-15/22, and AP74 Auto Rifle.
(Note: legally, restricted firearms can only be discharged at shooting ranges; so while one can use them in competitions, one cannot use them for hunting)

Non-restricted firearms are:

any other rifle or shotgun, other than those referred to above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada#Classification_of_firearms
E: If you still want more I'll see what I can find.

That part about the am being prohibited is false it is however restricted not prohibited

[Arlenton]

I've been saying for years that the media doesn't need to report the names of the shooters or terrorists. Focus on the victims not the perp

But TV ratings are more important than people's lives!

Media needs viewers to profit though. And some mentally deranged shooter or terrorist isn't their responsibility.

[Sovaal]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada#Classification_of_firearms
E: If you still want more I'll see what I can find.

That part about the am being prohibited is false it is however restricted not prohibited

If you owned one before the ban you can keep it/ sell it to other license holders but you can't buy any new ones.

[Arlenton]

That part about the am being prohibited is false it is however restricted not prohibited

If you owned one before the ban you can keep it/ sell it to other license holders but you can't buy any new ones.

That law sounds like it needs to go.

[Gig em Aggies]

That part about the am being prohibited is false it is however restricted not prohibited

If you owned one before the ban you can keep it/ sell it to other license holders but you can't buy any new ones.

“Assault rifle” means a rifle firing an intermediate cartridge between pistol and full-power rifle, which can function as a machinegun or semi-automatically. You can own such guns in all states except CA, DE, HI, IL, MA, MN, NJ, NY, RI, WA, and WI.

[Albrenia]

If you owned one before the ban you can keep it/ sell it to other license holders but you can't buy any new ones.

That law sounds like it needs to go.

Heh, good luck with that.

[Gravlen]

A quick shift of the goalposts and you're off to the races, aren't you?

The point I made, which you ignored, is that those numbers are untrustworthy. Unlike Norway, the American federal government is not allowed to track gun violence. The two authors that Politifact cites readily admit that they have "very likely... overlooked or incorrectly omitted" cases in the US.

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument about the data you are providing fourth-hand, because that data isn't worth arguing over. If you want to continue then find a primary source that corroborates the claims you're making.

Yeah, that's completely false, unless the FBI isn't part of the government.. They've always been allowed to track gun violence, simply banned from politically agitating for gun control.

But let's make a comparison them, a real comparison. Comparing Norway to the U.S. 1-1 and thinking it means anything doesn't work. It's a tiny country, the size of a medium state, and the vastly more populous United States is going to have vastly larger numbers even with a lower ratio.

So let's do a fair comparison, with every gun control advocate's favorite scapegoat-Indiana. Indiana, that nasty state, with their lack of gun laws, being single-handedly responsible for Chicago's gun crisis! They must be killing each other in droves. They've got similar populations too, Norway has about 5.3 million, Indiana has 6.6.

Now, Norway comes in strong, with only one mass shooting, while Indiana, Indiana has a whopping....

Zero.

Hmm. Maybe Norway should try adopting Indiana's gun laws?

Nah.

Indiana mass shooting: The North Hamilton Avenue shooting of 2006 - 7 fatalities.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'd prefer to see the piece of legislation detailing what is and is not a restricted firearm. A web page from a firearms outlet doesn't give me specifics.

Prohibited firearms include:

Handguns
with a barrel length less than to 105 millimetres (4.1 in), or;
that are designed to discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition;
exceptions are stated in the Regulations Prescribing Exclusions from Certain Definitions of the Criminal Code International Sporting Competition Handguns[42]
Rifles and shotguns that have been altered by sawing, cutting or any other means, so that:
the barrel length is inferior to 457 millimetres (18.0 in) (regardless of overall length), or;
the overall length is inferior to 660 millimetres (26 in)
Firearms which have fully automatic fire capability, or "converted automatics" (i.e.: firearms which were originally fully automatic, but have been modified to discharge ammunition in a semi-automatic fashion)
Firearms prescribed as prohibited by the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (SOR/98-462):.[30] This includes all versions (even semi-automatic) versions of certain military weapons such as the AK-47 and the FN-FAL.
Firearm capable of discharging dart or other object carrying electric current or substance, including Taser Public Defender and any variant or modified version of it
Firearm known as SSS-1 Stinger and any similar firearm designed or of a size to fit in the palm of the hand
Hundreds of other firearms listed by name, including any variants or modified versions. The list includes shotguns, carbines, rifles, pistols, and submachine guns.[30]

Restricted firearms are:[43]

Any handgun that is not prohibited (note: handguns are prohibited if the barrel length is inferior to 105 millimetres (4.1 in); handguns cannot be non-restricted)
Any firearm that is:
not prohibited
that has a barrel length inferior to 470 millimetres (18.5 in), and
is capable of operating in a semi-automatic manner
Any firearm that can be fired when the overall length has been reduced by folding, telescoping, or other means to less than 660 millimetres (26 in)
Firearms prescribed as restricted by the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (SOR/98-462):[30]
The firearms of the designs commonly known as the High Standard Model 10, Series A shotgun and the High Standard Model 10, Series B shotgun, and any variants or modified versions of them.
The firearm of the design commonly known as the M-16 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the
Colt AR-15; Colt AR-15 SPI/Sporter/Collapsible Stock Model/A2/A2 Carbine/A2 Government Model Rifle/A2 Government Model Target Rifle/A2 Government Model Carbine/A2 Sporter II/A2 H-BAR/A2 Delta H-BAR/A2 Delta H-BAR Match/9mm Carbine; Armalite AR-15; AAI M15; AP74; EAC J-15; PWA Commando; SGW XM15A; SGW CAR-AR; SWD AR-15; and
any 22-calibre rimfire variant, including the
Mitchell M-16A-1/22, Mitchell M-16/22, Mitchell CAR-15/22, and AP74 Auto Rifle.
(Note: legally, restricted firearms can only be discharged at shooting ranges; so while one can use them in competitions, one cannot use them for hunting)

Non-restricted firearms are:

any other rifle or shotgun, other than those referred to above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada#Classification_of_firearms
E: If you still want more I'll see what I can find.

Thank you. That's all we asked for ten pages ago.

As a fan, aesthetically and historically, of the AK and FAL families of rifles, I don't agree that such namedropping bans nor "feature lists" are productive. There are arguments in their favour, if one buys into the suggestion that there is a mindset of fame and allure to mass shootings - several of you seem to express a belief in this by commenting on the "media contagion factor" suggestion. But in the general aim of preventing mass shootings, I don't think it's going to be particularly effective.
I don't think that. You, however, assert that it is not the case. One of us has a more reasonable position.

And, more pointedly - this still isn't a prohibition on the private, personal ownership of firearms.
My driving licence (provisional, but w/e) permits me to drive a car, or car with trailer, up to 3.5 tonnes. The fact that I need a different kind of licence to drive, say, a 15 tonne lorry, does not prohibit me to personally drive a vehicle.

[Sovaal]

If you owned one before the ban you can keep it/ sell it to other license holders but you can't buy any new ones.

“Assault rifle” means a rifle firing an intermediate cartridge between pistol and full-power rifle, which can function as a machinegun or semi-automatically. You can own such guns in all states except CA, DE, HI, IL, MA, MN, NJ, NY, RI, WA, and WI.

This is Canadian law.

[Arlenton]

If you owned one before the ban you can keep it/ sell it to other license holders but you can't buy any new ones.

“Assault rifle” means a rifle firing an intermediate cartridge between pistol and full-power rifle, which can function as a machinegun or semi-automatically. You can own such guns in all states except CA, DE, HI, IL, MA, MN, NJ, NY, RI, WA, and WI.

Thank God I left Illinois. Screw Chicago.

[Kubra]

(Image)

(Image)

(Image)
(Image)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada#Classification_of_firearms
E: If you still want more I'll see what I can find.

Thank you. That's all we asked for ten pages ago.

As a fan, aesthetically and historically, of the AK and FAL families of rifles, I don't agree that such namedropping bans nor "feature lists" are productive. There are arguments in their favour, if one buys into the suggestion that there is a mindset of fame and allure to mass shootings - several of you seem to express a belief in this by commenting on the "media contagion factor" suggestion. But in the general aim of preventing mass shootings, I don't think it's going to be particularly effective.
I don't think that. You, however, assert that it is not the case. One of us has a more reasonable position.

And, more pointedly - this still isn't a prohibition on the private, personal ownership of firearms.
My driving licence (provisional, but w/e) permits me to drive a car, or car with trailer, up to 3.5 tonnes. The fact that I need a different kind of licence to drive, say, a 15 tonne lorry, does not prohibit me to personally drive a vehicle.

The meat of firearm violence prevention is not the system of classification, it's the licensing system. For a non-restricted PAL you take a safety course and are subject to a background check, which occurs again on a much stricter basis when getting a restricted PAL, and requires that one either be able to prove themselves a collector or a target shooting competitor. You could also apply on the grounds that it's for protection of ones life, though this won't apply for "afraid of muggers", more for "my job is protecting distant arctic outposts from polar bears" and even then they'll ask why you can't just use a non-restricted firearm for the task.

[Mandicoria]

thinking emoji

[Sovaal]

(Image)

(Image)

(Image)
(Image)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada#Classification_of_firearms
E: If you still want more I'll see what I can find.

Thank you. That's all we asked for ten pages ago.

I wasn't in a position to look up sources at the time, and combine this with the cold I'm having, it took me a while to get the cited source. If you got a problem with that I don't know what to tell you.

As a fan, aesthetically and historically, of the AK and FAL families of rifles, I don't agree that such namedropping bans nor "feature lists" are productive. [b]There are arguments in their favour, if one buys into the suggestion that there is a mindset of fame and allure to mass shootings -

I take it you didn't even look at my examples. If this is all about a "bad-assness" factor, then the Canadian government has failed in that regard, along with the fact that more "conventional" rifles have been used in shooting before.

several of you seem to express a belief in this by commenting on the "media contagion factor" suggestion.

See above.

But in the general aim of preventing mass shootings, I don't think it's going to be particularly effective.
I don't think that.

Then why bring it up?

You, however, assert that it is not the case. One of us has a more reasonable position.

I'm sorry, what? I have no idea as to what you are talking about.

And, more pointedly - this still isn't a prohibition on the private, personal ownership of firearms.

Never said it was bucko. Simply providing examples for as to why I think Canadian gun classification makes no sense.

My driving licence (provisional, but w/e) permits me to drive a car, or car with trailer, up to 3.5 tonnes. The fact that I need a different kind of licence to drive, say, a 15 tonne lorry, does not prohibit me to personally drive a vehicle.

So I take it you where unable to connect the dots, huh? Does you license prevent you from driving vehicles that functionally and for the most part cosmetically resemble other vehicles which are unrestricted?

[The Lone Alliance]

I've been saying for years that the media doesn't need to report the names of the shooters or terrorists. Focus on the victims not the perp

But TV ratings are more important than people's lives!

Really in a sense a lot of the problems in the world today wouldn't be a problem without media sensationalism or an attempt to drive controversy.

[Telconi]

But TV ratings are more important than people's lives!

I do hope that's just an attack on TV networks that do thirst for ratings over journalistic ethics, and not somehow against the "gun grabbers".

I'm sure you do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada#Classification_of_firearms
E: If you still want more I'll see what I can find.

Thank you. That's all we asked for ten pages ago.

As a fan, aesthetically and historically, of the AK and FAL families of rifles, I don't agree that such namedropping bans nor "feature lists" are productive. There are arguments in their favour, if one buys into the suggestion that there is a mindset of fame and allure to mass shootings - several of you seem to express a belief in this by commenting on the "media contagion factor" suggestion. But in the general aim of preventing mass shootings, I don't think it's going to be particularly effective.
I don't think that. You, however, assert that it is not the case. One of us has a more reasonable position.

And, more pointedly - this still isn't a prohibition on the private, personal ownership of firearms.
My driving licence (provisional, but w/e) permits me to drive a car, or car with trailer, up to 3.5 tonnes. The fact that I need a different kind of licence to drive, say, a 15 tonne lorry, does not prohibit me to personally drive a vehicle.

You are prohibited from personally driving a vehicle tho...

[Imperializt Russia]

Well yes, I don't yet hold a full driving licence.

[Telconi]

Well yes, I don't yet hold a full driving licence.

So, prohibiting a person from buying something, or posessing something, is a ban on said thing. Yes?

[Herador]

Well yes, I don't yet hold a full driving licence.

So, prohibiting a person from buying something, or posessing something, is a ban on said thing. Yes?

The Second Amendment should cover cars, yes.

[Thermodolia]

If you owned one before the ban you can keep it/ sell it to other license holders but you can't buy any new ones.

“Assault rifle” means a rifle firing an intermediate cartridge between pistol and full-power rifle, which can function as a machinegun or semi-automatically. You can own such guns in all states except CA, DE, HI, IL, MA, MN, NJ, NY, RI, WA, and WI.

I think Sovaal is talking about Canada not the US

[Imperializt Russia]

Well yes, I don't yet hold a full driving licence.

So, prohibiting a person from buying something, or posessing something, is a ban on said thing. Yes?

How does not owning an AK or FAL prevent you from owning a firearm? There are a number of cars, largely racing models, that are not road legal in the UK. As are certain off-road vehicles (mostly ATVs).