26 Dead including children at San Antonio Church massacre

[United Muscovite Nations]

The government can regulate cars because owning a car isn’t a right, nor is driving.

And the government can't regulate speech because...wait...they can...huh

---

It's literally in their platform.

Lies make Baby Jesus cry.

With 33,000 Americans dying every year, Democrats believe that we must finally take sensible action to address gun violence. While responsible gun ownership is part of the fabric of many communities, too many families in America have suffered from gun violence. We can respect the rights of responsible gun owners while keeping our communities safe.

The government can only regulate speech that poses an immediate threat to safety.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Really? Which is why I have to fucking destroy or disable my rifle by July 1 2018? Nothing to see here, except a fucking gun ban....

Are you spouting more hypotheticals, or do you own a rifle you are required to destroy or disable?

What rifle, under what law, are you referring to?

Iirc previously California compliant AR's were once again declared illegal and Telconi is probably in that boat.

It's also happened in California in the past with SKS rifles.

[Telconi]

The government can regulate cars because owning a car isn’t a right, nor is driving.

And the government can't regulate speech because...wait...they can...huh

---

It's literally in their platform.

Lies make Baby Jesus cry.

With 33,000 Americans dying every year, Democrats believe that we must finally take sensible action to address gun violence. While responsible gun ownership is part of the fabric of many communities, too many families in America have suffered from gun violence. We can respect the rights of responsible gun owners while keeping our communities safe.

Then stop lying?

[Camicon]

A firearm registry would be expensive to maintain. Canada repealed their universal gun registry back in 2012 as it cost a 100times more than promised and non-compliance was around 50% and proved to be entirely useless in fighting crime.

We scrapped the long gun registry, because you don't need special permits to own a long gun. Handguns are still very much registered and tracked.

[Telconi]

Are you spouting more hypotheticals, or do you own a rifle you are required to destroy or disable?

What rifle, under what law, are you referring to?

Iirc previously California compliant AR's were once again declared illegal and Telconi is probably in that boat.

It's also happened in California in the past with SKS rifles.

It's actually an AK. Which is worse, because there's no complience option, it's literally "give us your shit or we'll toss you in jail".

[Imperializt Russia]

Then cite it.

...and keep weapons of war—such as assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines (LCAM's)—off our streets...

Pulled directly from the party platform on their website.

That's quite explicitly not against the private ownership of firearms.

It suggests that certain kinds of firearm should not be permissible for civilian ownership, which is a thing that almost every other country in the world manages to abide by, and the US effectively already has, through the NFA/1986 law preventing the registration of new fully-automatic weapons.

You also didn't actually cite the statue, just ostensibly quoted a part of it. You also didn't explain what weapon allegedly fell foul of this and why it was covered.

[Sovaal]

For someone over the age of 18, yes.

Don't you have to register and be put on a list to be able to vote?

I think males have to sign up for Selective Service is a requirement.

[The East Marches II]

The government can regulate cars because owning a car isn’t a right, nor is driving.

What is a right? And if the ownership of firearms is such a right, why is the US the only country in the world to claim it as valid?

Because we are the only free country left? The rest of the world isn't much good given its lack of free speech and blatant restrictions on political rights.

[Telconi]

Pulled directly from the party platform on their website.

That's quite explicitly not against the private ownership of firearms.

It suggests that certain kinds of firearm should not be permissible for civilian ownership, which is a thing that almost every other country in the world manages to abide by, and the US effectively already has, through the NFA/1986 law preventing the registration of new fully-automatic weapons.

You also didn't actually cite the statue, just ostensibly quoted a part of it. You also didn't explain what weapon allegedly fell foul of this and why it was covered.

...quite explicitly not against the private ownership of firearms...

...firearm should not be permissible for civilian ownership...


How can those both be true?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Because it’s in our constitution.

You didn't really answer either question. What if the government did manage to repeal the 2nd Amendment? Then it would cease to be a right, are you going to stick with the line of "well, it's not in the constitution, I guess it doesn't matter anymore"?

And even in such an eventuality, this is not a prohibition on the ownership of firearms. See almost every country on the world, which does not enshrine a right to keep and bear arms, yet permits the ownership of firearms, often a wide variety of the things.

If it wasn’t in the constitution then it wouldn’t be a right, that is correct. My point though, was that gun ownership is different under US law than car ownership, which is why the government can make a registration system for the purpose of tracing cars to individuals for potential confiscation. The difference is that you have to get permission from the government to own a car and to drive, while the government is not supposed to interfere with bearing arms.

[United Muscovite Nations]

For someone over the age of 18, yes.

Don't you have to register and be put on a list to be able to vote?

So that we can prove that we are US citizens eligible to vote.

[Camicon]

What is a right? And if the ownership of firearms is such a right, why is the US the only country in the world to claim it as valid?

Because we are the only free country left? The rest of the world isn't much good given its lack of free speech and blatant restrictions on political rights.

So I guess nobody was free prior to the creation of firearms?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Because we are the only free country left? The rest of the world isn't much good given its lack of free speech and blatant restrictions on political rights.

So I guess nobody was free prior to the creation of firearms?

In terms of modern notions of democracy? That would probably be somewhat accurate.

[Grinning Dragon]

A firearm registry would be expensive to maintain. Canada repealed their universal gun registry back in 2012 as it cost a 100times more than promised and non-compliance was around 50% and proved to be entirely useless in fighting crime.

We scrapped the long gun registry, because you don't need special permits to own a long gun. Handguns are still very much registered and tracked.

Duly noted. Thank you.

[The East Marches II]

Because we are the only free country left? The rest of the world isn't much good given its lack of free speech and blatant restrictions on political rights.

So I guess nobody was free prior to the creation of firearms?

Nah, you missed my point entirely. Enjoy your "Human Rights Commissions", I'll enjoy my freedom :^) Its not our fault we are the last bastion left.

[Imperializt Russia]

That's quite explicitly not against the private ownership of firearms.

It suggests that certain kinds of firearm should not be permissible for civilian ownership, which is a thing that almost every other country in the world manages to abide by, and the US effectively already has, through the NFA/1986 law preventing the registration of new fully-automatic weapons.

You also didn't actually cite the statue, just ostensibly quoted a part of it. You also didn't explain what weapon allegedly fell foul of this and why it was covered.

...quite explicitly not against the private ownership of firearms...

...firearm should not be permissible for civilian ownership...


How can those both be true?

Because you're selectively editing my posts because they don't conform to your worldview.

But whatever.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Iirc previously California compliant AR's were once again declared illegal and Telconi is probably in that boat.

It's also happened in California in the past with SKS rifles.

It's actually an AK. Which is worse, because there's no complience option, it's literally "give us your shit or we'll toss you in jail".

RIP Telconi, ATF field office is gonna shoot your pupper and gas you

[Sovaal]

Because we are the only free country left? The rest of the world isn't much good given its lack of free speech and blatant restrictions on political rights.

So I guess nobody was free prior to the creation of firearms?

I mean the modern democracy didn't exist before the 1100's, so yah, but probably mostly unrelated

[Camicon]

So I guess nobody was free prior to the creation of firearms?

In terms of modern notions of democracy? That would probably be somewhat accurate.

I don't know how to break this to you, but firearms are not an integral part of democracy, modern or otherwise.

[Thermodolia]

It should be

I'm guessing you both believe there is, or should be, a right to live one's life without interference from the state.

As much as possible yes.

So what are your thoughts on the Administration's desire to interfere in the lives of women by restricting their reproduction rights, and in those of LGBT persons by interfering in anti-discrimination measures, and what are either of you doing about it?

I think the administration is fucking nuts but there's not much I can do

[Telconi]

...quite explicitly not against the private ownership of firearms...

...firearm should not be permissible for civilian ownership...


How can those both be true?

Because you're selectively editing my posts because they don't conform to your worldview.

But whatever.

Well yeah, I highlighted the relevant parts. You still haven't managed to explain how banning certain guns is explicitly not banning guns?

[Imperializt Russia]

So I guess nobody was free prior to the creation of firearms?

In terms of modern notions of democracy? That would probably be somewhat accurate.

Since our "modern notion of democracy" is so greatly intertwined with capitalism, and capitalism was very much enforced on people much as feudalism before it was, that is not remotely true.

[Sovaal]

It's actually an AK. Which is worse, because there's no complience option, it's literally "give us your shit or we'll toss you in jail".

RIP Telconi, ATF field office is gonna shoot your pupper and gas you

Only solution is to send said rifle to me for safe keeping.

Also, as a rhetorical, what would California think of an U.K. Style straighpull AR or AK?

[Telconi]

In terms of modern notions of democracy? That would probably be somewhat accurate.

I don't know how to break this to you, but firearms are not an integral part of democracy, modern or otherwise.

Yeah, they are, name a single democracy that has been formed or maintained without arms?

[Thermodolia]

For someone over the age of 18, yes.

Don't you have to register and be put on a list to be able to vote?

It's not accessible to the federal government.