26 Dead including children at San Antonio Church massacre

[Thermodolia]

You obviously haven't met the US government

The NSA deals with billions of data items on pretty much a daily basis.

Perhaps I should re-phrase, I don't think dealing with that kind of volume is beyond the wit of the US government when those tasked to do it are not being hamstrung by the legislature.

Efficiency is to the US government as what the cross is to vampires

[The Empire of Pretantia]

. The US is the only major country where nutters regularly commit mass murder.

Nutters have been regularly committing mass murder in Europe recently.

[Imperializt Russia]

Not one instance of terrorism in the UK has used firearms in its commission. Not even in the IRA's heyday. But hey, if terrorism's fair game then whoops

And the question again will come as to how exactly someone killed by a bomb, knife, or acid is somehow better off than someone shot.

I think you meant car, not acid, but whatever.

So, it should be easier for more people to be killed with firearms on top of the other instances?
What's your point?

[Len Hyet]

Yeah, that's completely false, unless the FBI isn't part of the government.. They've always been allowed to track gun violence, simply banned from politically agitating for gun control.

But let's make a comparison them, a real comparison. Comparing Norway to the U.S. 1-1 and thinking it means anything doesn't work. It's a tiny country, the size of a medium state, and the vastly more populous United States is going to have vastly larger numbers even with a lower ratio.

So let's do a fair comparison, with every gun control advocate's favorite scapegoat-Indiana. Indiana, that nasty state, with their lack of gun laws, being single-handedly responsible for Chicago's gun crisis! They must be killing each other in droves. They've got similar populations too, Norway has about 5.3 million, Indiana has 6.6.

Now, Norway comes in strong, with only one mass shooting, while Indiana, Indiana has a whopping....

Zero.

Hmm. Maybe Norway should try adopting Indiana's gun laws?

A crime can be violent without involving firearms, a distinction the FBI doesn't make.

Still waiting on those primary sources.

What?

The FBI absolutely tracks which crimes are and are not firearms crimes. Here. In the 2015 Uniform Crime Reports firearms were used in 71.5% of homicides, 40.8% of robberies, and 24.2% of aggravated assaults.

[Xelsis]

Then how about this mass shooting in Norway, deadlier than anything the United States has ever had?

Yes, what about it? It is the only such attack Norway has seen.

Large-scale gun attacks (say, 20+) happen what, four times a year in the US? Massive attacks maybe annually?

Norway doesn't have the population of the United States. Norway has about the population of Indiana, or Tennessee. (Less, actually). Indiana's never seen a mass shooting. Tennessee has had one, well under a tenth as deadly as Norway. Should Norway adopt Indianan or Tennessean gun laws?

Continually comparing a state-sized country to one sixty times its size is obviously going to give smaller numbers on the one a sixtieth of its size.

(And no, the U.S. has had seven 20+ gun attacks ever. Comparing it to Norway, that would give the U.S. only a little over a tenth as many such large scale attacks per capita)

[Irona]

. The US is the only major country where nutters regularly commit mass murder.

Nutters have been regularly committing mass murder in Europe recently.

The US has a problem with people who aren't terrorists committing mass murder. Europe doesn't.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Nutters have been regularly committing mass murder in Europe recently.

Terrorists, not random crazys.

Tbqh they're one and the same. What's the difference between "ima go kill these guys because God is Great!" and "ima go kill those guys because Church is dumb"

[Fartsniffage]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41892838

Bernard Manning will be gutted he missed this one....

[Gig em Aggies]

Nutters have been regularly committing mass murder in Europe recently.

Terrorists, not random crazys.

Well you have to be crazy to think your god wants you to kill innocent people.

[Camicon]

Yes, what about it? It is the only such attack Norway has seen.

Large-scale gun attacks (say, 20+) happen what, four times a year in the US? Massive attacks maybe annually?

Norway doesn't have the population of the United States. Norway has about the population of Indiana, or Tennessee. (Less, actually). Indiana's never seen a mass shooting...
*snip*

Well that's not true.

[Ifreann]

Guns are the problem but we just can't do anything?

By all means if you have some idea how to reign in the literal hundreds of millions of guns when even simple things universal background checks get hit with staggering noncompliance let's hear it.

So gun owners are the problem.

---

Oh look shity sources to match a shity claim

Yup! You guys know more about the shooter than the people who know him in real life. Damn it!

If the Daily Mail told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe it until I saw it for myself. If The Sun told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe it even after I'd seen it myself.

---

Not if you allow people to use computers to do it....

That would have to be one hell of a computer system. Last year on Black Friday Americans bought enough guns to arm the entire Marine Corps, and over 10,000,000 more throughout the rest of the year iirc. Now maybe I'm just ignorant of the topic but I can't see said system working without major problems.

The Library of Congress had collected 525 terabytes, five hundred and twenty five trillion bytes, of web archive data as of March 2014, and was adding about 5 TB a month.

Now obviously one gun would need more than one byte of data to be properly accounted for, but data about a few hundred million guns is nothing to modern computers.

[Telconi]

By all means if you have some idea how to reign in the literal hundreds of millions of guns when even simple things universal background checks get hit with staggering noncompliance let's hear it.

So gun owners are the problem.

---

Yup! You guys know more about the shooter than the people who know him in real life. Damn it!

If the Daily Mail told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe it until I saw it for myself. If The Sun told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe it even after I'd seen it myself.

---

That would have to be one hell of a computer system. Last year on Black Friday Americans bought enough guns to arm the entire Marine Corps, and over 10,000,000 more throughout the rest of the year iirc. Now maybe I'm just ignorant of the topic but I can't see said system working without major problems.

The Library of Congress had collected 525 terabytes, five hundred and twenty five trillion bytes, of web archive data as of March 2014, and was adding about 5 TB a month.

Now obviously one gun would need more than one byte of data to be properly accounted for, but data about a few hundred million guns is nothing to modern computers.

But it's something to modern gun owners.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Nutters have been regularly committing mass murder in Europe recently.

The US has a problem with people who aren't terrorists committing mass murder. Europe doesn't.

No point in distinction, they're both nutters.

[Camicon]

Yeah, that's completely false, unless the FBI isn't part of the government.. They've always been allowed to track gun violence, simply banned from politically agitating for gun control.

But let's make a comparison them, a real comparison. Comparing Norway to the U.S. 1-1 and thinking it means anything doesn't work. It's a tiny country, the size of a medium state, and the vastly more populous United States is going to have vastly larger numbers even with a lower ratio.

So let's do a fair comparison, with every gun control advocate's favorite scapegoat-Indiana. Indiana, that nasty state, with their lack of gun laws, being single-handedly responsible for Chicago's gun crisis! They must be killing each other in droves. They've got similar populations too, Norway has about 5.3 million, Indiana has 6.6.

Now, Norway comes in strong, with only one mass shooting, while Indiana, Indiana has a whopping....

Zero.

Hmm. Maybe Norway should try adopting Indiana's gun laws?

A crime can be violent without involving firearms, a distinction the FBI doesn't make. [EDIT] Pause while I look at the different url you so subtly changed.

Still waiting on those primary sources.

The new URL you provided makes no mention of mass shootings, which was the topic of discussion was it not?

[Fartsniffage]

The US has a problem with people who aren't terrorists committing mass murder. Europe doesn't.

No point in distinction, they're both nutters.

There really is. They're different problems that will require different solutions.

[Xelsis]

Norway doesn't have the population of the United States. Norway has about the population of Indiana, or Tennessee. (Less, actually). Indiana's never seen a mass shooting...
*snip*

Well that's not true.

Given that mass shootings are defined by taking part in a public place, breaking into a house for a robbery/murder doesn't qualify.

But, I'm feeling amenable, so I'll accept it for the sake of argument. Indiana's now equal to Norway in number of mass shootings, ten times better in terms of fatalities.

[Thermodolia]

By all means if you have some idea how to reign in the literal hundreds of millions of guns when even simple things universal background checks get hit with staggering noncompliance let's hear it.

So gun owners are the problem.

---

Yup! You guys know more about the shooter than the people who know him in real life. Damn it!

If the Daily Mail told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe it until I saw it for myself. If The Sun told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe it even after I'd seen it myself.

---

That would have to be one hell of a computer system. Last year on Black Friday Americans bought enough guns to arm the entire Marine Corps, and over 10,000,000 more throughout the rest of the year iirc. Now maybe I'm just ignorant of the topic but I can't see said system working without major problems.

The Library of Congress had collected 525 terabytes, five hundred and twenty five trillion bytes, of web archive data as of March 2014, and was adding about 5 TB a month.

Now obviously one gun would need more than one byte of data to be properly accounted for, but data about a few hundred million guns is nothing to modern computers.

Except it's not a few hundred million is closer to 1 billion than 100 million

[Ifreann]

So gun owners are the problem.

---

If the Daily Mail told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe it until I saw it for myself. If The Sun told me the sky was blue I wouldn't believe it even after I'd seen it myself.

---

The Library of Congress had collected 525 terabytes, five hundred and twenty five trillion bytes, of web archive data as of March 2014, and was adding about 5 TB a month.

Now obviously one gun would need more than one byte of data to be properly accounted for, but data about a few hundred million guns is nothing to modern computers.

But it's something to modern gun owners.

I'm sure there are those who wouldn't want the government to know about the guns they're buying and selling, but it is technically possible, given modern technology, for that data to be collected and managed.

[Germanic Templars]

No point in distinction, they're both nutters.

There really is. They're different problems that will require different solutions.

You do not know how badly I wanted to make a Nazi joke from that, but for the sake of keeping it civil I will keep myself from making it and go to say that one would require mental help and the other... Perhaps something else...

[Vassenor]

So Trump is insisting this is a mental health issue rather than anything else.

Didn't he sign an EO in February removing mental health checks from the buying process?

[Xelsis]

Yeah, that's completely false, unless the FBI isn't part of the government.. They've always been allowed to track gun violence, simply banned from politically agitating for gun control.

But let's make a comparison them, a real comparison. Comparing Norway to the U.S. 1-1 and thinking it means anything doesn't work. It's a tiny country, the size of a medium state, and the vastly more populous United States is going to have vastly larger numbers even with a lower ratio.

So let's do a fair comparison, with every gun control advocate's favorite scapegoat-Indiana. Indiana, that nasty state, with their lack of gun laws, being single-handedly responsible for Chicago's gun crisis! They must be killing each other in droves. They've got similar populations too, Norway has about 5.3 million, Indiana has 6.6.

Now, Norway comes in strong, with only one mass shooting, while Indiana, Indiana has a whopping....

Zero.

Hmm. Maybe Norway should try adopting Indiana's gun laws?

A crime can be violent without involving firearms, a distinction the FBI doesn't make. [EDIT] Pause while I look at the different url you so subtly changed.

Still waiting on those primary sources.

Not according to you.

Unlike Norway, the American federal government is not allowed to track gun violence.

(Both links prove the point, the latter is more specific. Use either one you like.)

If you want to prove the U.S. has a higher rate, mate, the sources should be being found by you.

EDIT: I see the "mass shooting" reference got removed. Second point stands regardless.

[Len Hyet]

So Trump is insisting this is a mental health issue rather than anything else.

Didn't he sign an EO in February removing mental health checks from the buying process?

That Mental Health order was blatantly unconstitutional, and was condemned by the ACLU as such.

[Germanic Templars]

So Trump is insisting this is a mental health issue rather than anything else.

Didn't he sign an EO in February removing mental health checks from the buying process?

And didn't Sandy Hook teach us that mental background checks don't matter when you can kill your mom and take her gun?

[Telconi]

But it's something to modern gun owners.

I'm sure there are those who wouldn't want the government to know about the guns they're buying and selling, but it is technically possible, given modern technology, for that data to be collected and managed.

Technically possible, but still wrong.

[Camicon]

Well that's not true.

Given that mass shootings are defined by taking part in a public place, breaking into a house for a robbery/murder doesn't qualify.

But, I'm feeling amenable, so I'll accept it for the sake of argument. Indiana's now equal to Norway in number of mass shootings, ten times better in terms of fatalities.

If you start looking at firearm fatalities without discrimination as to what led to those fatalities then Indiana (12.7 per 100,000 as of 2015) outpaces Norway (1.22 per 100,000 as of 2014). By a factor of ten.