26 Dead including children at San Antonio Church massacre

[Gig em Aggies]

Well it's down right impossible to track 660 million guns.

Not if you allow people to use computers to do it....

We do that now their called serial numbers and filling out forms to purchase the guns.

[Kennlind]

Source
Source
Source

Oh look shity sources to match a shity claim

Yup! You guys know more about the shooter than the people who know him in real life. Damn it!

[Washington Resistance Army]

Well it's down right impossible to track 660 million guns.

Not if you allow people to use computers to do it....

That would have to be one hell of a computer system. Last year on Black Friday Americans bought enough guns to arm the entire Marine Corps, and over 10,000,000 more throughout the rest of the year iirc. Now maybe I'm just ignorant of the topic but I can't see said system working without major problems.

[Fartsniffage]

Not if you allow people to use computers to do it....

We do that now their called serial numbers and filling out forms to purchase the guns.

No you don't. The records have to be stored in paper form.

[Irona]

Oh look shity sources to match a shity claim

Yup! You guys know more about the shooter than the people who know him in real life. Damn it!

Give us a real source...

[Thermodolia]

Not if you allow people to use computers to do it....

We do that now their called serial numbers and filling out forms to purchase the guns.

In many states it's illegal to use the serial numbers to track the guns plus they can be filed off

[Germanic Templars]

I'll make it easy, I own 2 1/2 (the half is a jointly owned weapon) and plan on adding maybe 3 more.

Well I own three and I'm planning on getting 7 more.

Would try and be on par with you there, but ATF being ATF are cockjugglers and require special license to own 20mm rifles or 37mm anti-tank guns.. Also 81mm mortars. And yes, heavy ordinance is a must. After all, I want my 37mm Anti-tank gun to act as both lawn decoration and emergency first line defense.

^ And yes, I am serious about owning heavy ordinance such as this. I mean, they are not rapid fire and loading them can be quite a bitch.

[Xelsis]

The people doing the shootings are the problem, and functional bans on guns in cities like Chicago didn't do a thing. Meanwhile, everyone's got a gun in Wyoming, and they're doing pretty well for themselves.

Yep, Wyoming is only the 5th worst state for gun deaths per capita. Everything is going swimmingly there.

Trying to obfuscate by counting suicides?

Wyoming's 41st in murder rate. Y'know, the one that matters.

[Thermodolia]

Well I own three and I'm planning on getting 7 more.

Would try and be on par with you there, but ATF being ATF are cockjugglers and require special license to own 20mm rifles or 37mm anti-tank guns.. Also 81mm mortars. And yes, heavy ordinance is a must. After all, I want my 37mm Anti-tank gun to act as both lawn decoration and emergency first line defense.

^ And yes, I am serious about owning heavy ordinance such as this. I mean, they are not rapid fire and loading them can be quite a bitch.

Why not just go all out and get the M1A1 Abrams

[Irona]

We do that now their called serial numbers and filling out forms to purchase the guns.

In many states it's illegal to use the serial numbers to track the guns plus they can be filed off

Yeah it's possible make explosives in secret but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to regulate who can buy them.

[Washington Resistance Army]

We do that now their called serial numbers and filling out forms to purchase the guns.

No you don't. The records have to be stored in paper form.

For what it's worth the NFA registry is computerized and even that's a hilarious mess. I've actually heard of machine guns simply vanishing off of it for no discernible reason and the owners having to go through massive headaches to get them back on.

[Gig em Aggies]

Well I own three and I'm planning on getting 7 more.

Would try and be on par with you there, but ATF being ATF are cockjugglers and require special license to own 20mm rifles or 37mm anti-tank guns.. Also 81mm mortars. And yes, heavy ordinance is a must. After all, I want my 37mm Anti-tank gun to act as both lawn decoration and emergency first line defense.

^ And yes, I am serious about owning heavy ordinance such as this. I mean, they are not rapid fire and loading them can be quite a bitch.

Afraid of zombies I see.

[Thermodolia]

In many states it's illegal to use the serial numbers to track the guns plus they can be filed off

Yeah it's possible make explosives in secret but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to regulate who can buy them.

It's actually legal to own certain types of explosives, Tannerite being one of them

[Thermodolia]

No you don't. The records have to be stored in paper form.

For what it's worth the NFA registry is computerized and even that's a hilarious mess. I've actually heard of machine guns simply vanishing off of it for no discernible reason and the owners having to go through massive headaches to get them back on.

Aka our government is fucked

[Fartsniffage]

Not if you allow people to use computers to do it....

That would have to be one hell of a computer system. Last year on Black Friday Americans bought enough guns to arm the entire Marine Corps, and over 10,000,000 more throughout the rest of the year iirc. Now maybe I'm just ignorant of the topic but I can't see said system working without major problems.

There are just over 27 million posts on this little forum set up to promote a book by an Aussie author. It's coded and run by 3 admins.

I don't think dealing with that kind of volume is beyond the wit of the US government.

[Camicon]

Politifact doesn't provide a link to the studies they're using for those numbers. And after poking around, I found it. Or, rather, I found the one piece of work on mass shootings written by Jaclyn Schildkraut and H. Jaymi Elsass, and guess what? They exclude shootings that "correlate with gang violence" (pg 56). In the next paragraph they say, "As we commonly must rely on news reports to compile information about different crimes, using the details about each event released by the media to decide whether the rampage fits the definition, it is very likely that some events have been overlooked or incorrectly omitted" (pg 57).

So, we've got these two authors who readily admit that the information they're working with in regards to the USA is "very likely" incorrect, and who have intentionally excluded mass shooting that "correlate with gang violence".

The numbers Politifact used are untrustworthy, at best.

By gang violence, you mean all the shootings in the cities with the most gun control, right? The repeated years of near a thousand murders in gun-free Chicago in the 1990s?

There are different ways of measuring mass shootings. The general definition has them as a unique event, a specific intention to mass murder, rather than a robbery gone bad or gang conflict.

But, let's examine this, for the sake of argument. For the U.S. rate to match Norway's, you'll need eight times more deaths from gang mass shootings than these measured mass shootings.

I think that unlikely. But if it's true? What does it demonstrate? That U.S. mass shootings are most concentrated where gun control is most concentrated.

I rather doubt you can, even granting you the definition, find any source with gang mass shootings outnumbering all others my a factor of eight-but if you do manage that, we'll just have another strike against the effectiveness of gun control in the U.S.

A quick shift of the goalposts and you're off to the races, aren't you?

The point I made, which you ignored, is that those numbers are untrustworthy. Unlike Norway, the American federal government is not allowed to track gun violence. The two authors that Politifact cites readily admit that they have "very likely... overlooked or incorrectly omitted" cases in the US.

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument about the data you are providing fourth-hand, because that data isn't worth arguing over. If you want to continue then find a primary source that corroborates the claims you're making.

[Thermodolia]

That would have to be one hell of a computer system. Last year on Black Friday Americans bought enough guns to arm the entire Marine Corps, and over 10,000,000 more throughout the rest of the year iirc. Now maybe I'm just ignorant of the topic but I can't see said system working without major problems.

There are just short of 28 million posts on this little forum set up to promote a book by an Aussie author. It's coded and run by 3 admins.

I don't think dealing with that kind of volume is beyond the wit of the US government.

You obviously haven't met the US government

[Xelsis]

By gang violence, you mean all the shootings in the cities with the most gun control, right? The repeated years of near a thousand murders in gun-free Chicago in the 1990s?

There are different ways of measuring mass shootings. The general definition has them as a unique event, a specific intention to mass murder, rather than a robbery gone bad or gang conflict.

But, let's examine this, for the sake of argument. For the U.S. rate to match Norway's, you'll need eight times more deaths from gang mass shootings than these measured mass shootings.

I think that unlikely. But if it's true? What does it demonstrate? That U.S. mass shootings are most concentrated where gun control is most concentrated.

I rather doubt you can, even granting you the definition, find any source with gang mass shootings outnumbering all others my a factor of eight-but if you do manage that, we'll just have another strike against the effectiveness of gun control in the U.S.

A quick shift of the goalposts and you're off to the races, aren't you?

The point I made, which you ignored, is that those numbers are untrustworthy. Unlike Norway, the American federal government is not allowed to track gun violence. The two authors that Politifact cites readily admit that they have "very likely... overlooked or incorrectly omitted" cases in the US.

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument about the data you are providing fourth-hand, because that data isn't worth arguing over. If you want to continue then find a primary source that corroborates the claims you're making.

Yeah, that's completely false, unless the FBI isn't part of the government.. They've always been allowed to track gun violence, simply banned from politically agitating for gun control.

But let's make a comparison them, a real comparison. Comparing Norway to the U.S. 1-1 and thinking it means anything doesn't work. It's a tiny country, the size of a medium state, and the vastly more populous United States is going to have vastly larger numbers even with a lower ratio.

So let's do a fair comparison, with every gun control advocate's favorite scapegoat-Indiana. Indiana, that nasty state, with their lack of gun laws, being single-handedly responsible for Chicago's gun crisis! They must be killing each other in droves. They've got similar populations too, Norway has about 5.3 million, Indiana has 6.6.

Now, Norway comes in strong, with only one mass shooting, while Indiana, Indiana has a whopping....

Zero.

Hmm. Maybe Norway should try adopting Indiana's gun laws?

[Imperializt Russia]

>one gun rampage in two decades
>not working

lol

Their tragedies tend to come in the form of car attacks and bombings and more car attacks.

Not one instance of terrorism in the UK has used firearms in its commission. Not even in the IRA's heyday. But hey, if terrorism's fair game then whoops

[Washington Resistance Army]

That would have to be one hell of a computer system. Last year on Black Friday Americans bought enough guns to arm the entire Marine Corps, and over 10,000,000 more throughout the rest of the year iirc. Now maybe I'm just ignorant of the topic but I can't see said system working without major problems.

There are just short of 28 million posts on this little forum set up to promote a book by an Aussie author. It's coded and run by 3 admins.

I don't think dealing with that kind of volume is beyond the wit of the US government.

You vastly overestimate how competent most of the alphabet agencies are. The agency in charge of regulating automatic weapons and explosives is also the same agency that has declared shoestrings to be machine guns and fleshlights to be acceptable weapon attachments. They're a meme gone wrong.

[Fartsniffage]

There are just short of 28 million posts on this little forum set up to promote a book by an Aussie author. It's coded and run by 3 admins.

I don't think dealing with that kind of volume is beyond the wit of the US government.

You obviously haven't met the US government

The NSA deals with billions of data items on pretty much a daily basis.

Perhaps I should re-phrase, I don't think dealing with that kind of volume is beyond the wit of the US government when those tasked to do it are not being hamstrung by the legislature.

[Germanic Templars]

Would try and be on par with you there, but ATF being ATF are cockjugglers and require special license to own 20mm rifles or 37mm anti-tank guns.. Also 81mm mortars. And yes, heavy ordinance is a must. After all, I want my 37mm Anti-tank gun to act as both lawn decoration and emergency first line defense.

^ And yes, I am serious about owning heavy ordinance such as this. I mean, they are not rapid fire and loading them can be quite a bitch.

Why not just go all out and get the M1A1 Abrams

nah, government doesn't allowed for tracked vehicles, I tried. On put some wheels on that tank and yes, you can get away with it.

Would try and be on par with you there, but ATF being ATF are cockjugglers and require special license to own 20mm rifles or 37mm anti-tank guns.. Also 81mm mortars. And yes, heavy ordinance is a must. After all, I want my 37mm Anti-tank gun to act as both lawn decoration and emergency first line defense.

^ And yes, I am serious about owning heavy ordinance such as this. I mean, they are not rapid fire and loading them can be quite a bitch.

Afraid of zombies I see.

Not really. If I wanted to kill zombies I would choose weapons that fired cheaper rounds than those expensive ordinance.

[Xelsis]

Their tragedies tend to come in the form of car attacks and bombings and more car attacks.

Not one instance of terrorism in the UK has used firearms in its commission. Not even in the IRA's heyday. But hey, if terrorism's fair game then whoops

And the question again will come as to how exactly someone killed by a bomb, knife, or acid is somehow better off than someone shot.

[Imperializt Russia]

All of which are less deadly than the mass shootings in the US just from this year.

Then how about this mass shooting in Norway, deadlier than anything the United States has ever had?

Yes, what about it? It is the only such attack Norway has seen.

Large-scale gun attacks (say, 20+) happen what, four times a year in the US? Massive attacks maybe annually?

[Camicon]

A quick shift of the goalposts and you're off to the races, aren't you?

The point I made, which you ignored, is that those numbers are untrustworthy. Unlike Norway, the American federal government is not allowed to track gun violence. The two authors that Politifact cites readily admit that they have "very likely... overlooked or incorrectly omitted" cases in the US.

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument about the data you are providing fourth-hand, because that data isn't worth arguing over. If you want to continue then find a primary source that corroborates the claims you're making.

Yeah, that's completely false, unless the FBI isn't part of the government.. They've always been allowed to track gun violence, simply banned from politically agitating for gun control.

But let's make a comparison them, a real comparison. Comparing Norway to the U.S. 1-1 and thinking it means anything doesn't work. It's a tiny country, the size of a medium state, and the vastly more populous United States is going to have vastly larger numbers even with a lower ratio.

So let's do a fair comparison, with every gun control advocate's favorite scapegoat-Indiana. Indiana, that nasty state, with their lack of gun laws, being single-handedly responsible for Chicago's gun crisis! They must be killing each other in droves. They've got similar populations too, Norway has about 5.3 million, Indiana has 6.6.

Now, Norway comes in strong, with only one mass shooting, while Indiana, Indiana has a whopping....

Zero.

Hmm. Maybe Norway should try adopting Indiana's gun laws?

A crime can be violent without involving firearms, a distinction the FBI doesn't make. [EDIT] Pause while I look at the different url you so subtly changed.

Still waiting on those primary sources.