26 Dead including children at San Antonio Church massacre

[Wysten]

Just think in America we are just as in danger of death as countries with active terrorist groups. Is that how you want to live?

I need a source for that please.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Just think in America we are just as in danger of death as countries with active terrorist groups. Is that how you want to live?

Doesn't bother me tbh. I put about as much thought into those threats (terrorism and mass shootings) as I do with randomly falling and dying in my house. Which is to say not much at all.

According to CNN the guy wasn't dishonorably discharged, he was discharged on bad conduct which for some reason doesn't signal anything in checks. Seems like that should change.

Also, CM, if you see this later Dianne Feinstein won her first elected office before the NRA became really politically active. Told you she's a dinosaur

A Big Chicken Dinner is just for things that don't exactly warrant a DD. I've rarely seen BCD's issued

I've never really even heard of them being issued, which could probably explain why it slipped through the cracks.

[Gig em Aggies]

Just think in America we are just as in danger of death as countries with active terrorist groups. Is that how you want to live?

Well that's life what a stupid comment to make nowhere on this planet are safe from being killed by a gun or terrorist well except for North Sentinel Island, but anyways Keshi that's life deal with it.

[Xelsis]

Maybe, but that's rather silly, the U.S. has over sixty time Norway's population. They'd need to hit over four thousand dead to match on a per-capita basis.

I believe both Norway and Finland actually have higher per-capita death rates than the U.S. from mass shootings in recent years, Norway from that, Finland from several school shootings.

People tend to forget the U.S. is really big, and the three big massacres in, for example, the UK this year would need fifteen in the U.S. to keep the same rate.

I'm sure you'll provide us some sources to back up those numbers you're throwing around.

Sure.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... appen-oth/

Still, the U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000).

Not even from an especially gun-friendly source.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Just think in America we are just as in danger of death as countries with active terrorist groups. Is that how you want to live?

It would be pretty hard for the government to do anything to stop it. Think about Russia for a second: Strong gun control laws. They have a murder rate nearly twice as high as that of the US.

Presuming gun control would actually prevent people from getting guns, then the existing supply is too great for the government to control.

[Republic of Keshiland]

Just think in America we are just as in danger of death as countries with active terrorist groups. Is that how you want to live?

I need a source for that please.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/sta ... -worldwide

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

[Fartsniffage]

I've never really even heard of them being issued, which could probably explain why it slipped through the cracks.

Total stab in the dark but plea deal to avoid getting a DD?

[Washington Resistance Army]

I've never really even heard of them being issued, which could probably explain why it slipped through the cracks.

Total stab in the dark but plea deal to avoid getting a DD?

Given our governments love of plea deals I wouldn't rule that out, but I don't really know.

[Rusozak]

Just think in America we are just as in danger of death as countries with active terrorist groups. Is that how you want to live?

I wouldn't say JUST as in danger, but politicians the public continues to re-elect say the freedom to amass an arsenal takes precedent over security from being massacred. So the voting public says yes, but they also elected Trump so I'll take what the American public wants with a grain of salt.

[Gig em Aggies]

I need a source for that please.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/sta ... -worldwide

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

Okay both of those don't mean shit when clearly more terror attacks happen then mass shootings and terror attacks results in more loss of life then mass shootings do overall. Provide proof to your specific claim.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I need a source for that please.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/sta ... -worldwide

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

If you adjust the statistics for Iraq and Afghanistan to be in accordance with US population, it's pretty clear that those countries are much more dangerous than the US.

Afghanistan's terror victims, modified to give the country a population equal to the United States, would have 42,518 dead, and 47,113 wounded,

Iraq would have 84,805 dead and 115,639 wounded.

For comparison, the US had 15,696 dead in 2015.

[Thermodolia]

I've never really even heard of them being issued, which could probably explain why it slipped through the cracks.

Total stab in the dark but plea deal to avoid getting a DD?

Its highly possible.

[Ifreann]

58 in Vegas, 69 there. (Plus others from the bombing.)

58 in Vegas + 26 in Texas + 8 in the Plano shooting + 5 in the Fort Lauderdale airport shooting + 5 in the Orlando factory shooting + 3 in the San Francisco UPS shooting + 3 in the Thornton shooting...

That's 108 so far, and that's not a complete list.

And if we're counting back to 1905 for Norway, that's still just the one mass shooting. How many has America had since 1776?

[Washington Resistance Army]

58 in Vegas + 26 in Texas + 8 in the Plano shooting + 5 in the Fort Lauderdale airport shooting + 5 in the Orlando factory shooting + 3 in the San Francisco UPS shooting + 3 in the Thornton shooting...

That's 108 so far, and that's not a complete list.

And if we're counting back to 1905 for Norway, that's still just the one mass shooting. How many has America had since 1776?

They really didn't start until the 1980's when deinstitutionalization happened. Only one I can think of before that is the clock tower shooting and a few sporadic gang shootings every now and again.

[Camicon]

I'm sure you'll provide us some sources to back up those numbers you're throwing around.

Sure.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... appen-oth/

Still, the U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000).

Not even from an especially gun-friendly source.

Politifact doesn't provide a link to the studies they're using for those numbers. And after poking around, I found it. Or, rather, I found the one piece of work on mass shootings written by Jaclyn Schildkraut and H. Jaymi Elsass, and guess what? They exclude shootings that "correlate with gang violence" (pg 56). In the next paragraph they say, "As we commonly must rely on news reports to compile information about different crimes, using the details about each event released by the media to decide whether the rampage fits the definition, it is very likely that some events have been overlooked or incorrectly omitted" (pg 57).

So, we've got these two authors who readily admit that the information they're working with in regards to the USA is "very likely" incorrect, and who have intentionally excluded mass shootings that "correlate with gang violence".

The numbers Politifact used are untrustworthy, at best.

[Ifreann]

And if we're counting back to 1905 for Norway, that's still just the one mass shooting. How many has America had since 1776?

They really didn't start until the 1980's when deinstitutionalization happened. Only one I can think of before that is the clock tower shooting and a few sporadic gang shootings every now and again.

Okay, since the 1980s Norway has had one mass shooting. The US has had how many?

[Xelsis]

Sure.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... appen-oth/

Still, the U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000).

Not even from an especially gun-friendly source.

Politifact doesn't provide a link to the studies they're using for those numbers. And after poking around, I found it. Or, rather, I found the one piece of work on mass shootings written by Jaclyn Schildkraut and H. Jaymi Elsass, and guess what? They exclude shootings that "correlate with gang violence" (pg 56). In the next paragraph they say, "As we commonly must rely on news reports to compile information about different crimes, using the details about each event released by the media to decide whether the rampage fits the definition, it is very likely that some events have been overlooked or incorrectly omitted" (pg 57).

So, we've got these two authors who readily admit that the information they're working with in regards to the USA is "very likely" incorrect, and who have intentionally excluded mass shooting that "correlate with gang violence".

The numbers Politifact used are untrustworthy, at best.

By gang violence, you mean all the shootings in the cities with the most gun control, right? The repeated years of near a thousand murders in gun-free Chicago in the 1990s?

There are different ways of measuring mass shootings. The general definition has them as a unique event, a specific intention to mass murder, rather than a robbery gone bad or gang conflict.

But, let's examine this, for the sake of argument. For the U.S. rate to match Norway's, you'll need eight times more deaths from gang mass shootings than these measured mass shootings.

I think that unlikely. But if it's true? What does it demonstrate? That U.S. mass shootings are most concentrated where gun control is most concentrated.

I rather doubt you can, even granting you the definition, find any source with gang mass shootings outnumbering all others my a factor of eight-but if you do manage that, we'll just have another strike against the effectiveness of gun control in the U.S.

[Thermodolia]

They really didn't start until the 1980's when deinstitutionalization happened. Only one I can think of before that is the clock tower shooting and a few sporadic gang shootings every now and again.

Okay, since the 1980s Norway has had one mass shooting. The US has had how many?

According to the FBI 160 from 2000-2013.

[Ifreann]

Okay, since the 1980s Norway has had one mass shooting. The US has had how many?

According to the FBI 160 from 2000-2013.

How many since the 80s?

[Luziyca]

My condolences to the 28 dead.

But knowing America, there's no way gun control will ever be implemented.

Even if gun control was mandated, it would be unenforceable in the United States.

I'm sure it won't.

[Irona]

There's a pretty major difference between terrorist attacks and a nut job going on a murderous rampage. Gun control in most country's prevents nut jobs, rather than terrorists. The US is the only major country where nutters regularly commit mass murder.

[Gig em Aggies]

According to the FBI 160 from 2000-2013.

How many since the 80s?

This might help

http://time.com/4368615/orlando-mass-shootings-chart/

[Washington Resistance Army]

There's a pretty major difference between terrorist attacks and a nut job going on a murderous rampage. Gun control in most country's prevents nut jobs, rather than terrorists. The US is the only major country where nutters regularly commit mass murder.

There really isn't a major difference though.

They really didn't start until the 1980's when deinstitutionalization happened. Only one I can think of before that is the clock tower shooting and a few sporadic gang shootings every now and again.

Okay, since the 1980s Norway has had one mass shooting. The US has had how many?

Can't say I know actually. I'd go look for a source but my damn phone keeps crashing >_>

[Xelsis]

There's a pretty major difference between terrorist attacks and a nut job going on a murderous rampage. Gun control in most country's prevents nut jobs, rather than terrorists. The US is the only major country where nutters regularly commit mass murder.

Are people killed by a terrorist somehow any better off than people killed by a "nutjob"?

[Thermodolia]

According to the FBI 160 from 2000-2013.

How many since the 80s?

Fuck if I know