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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:33 pm

Jerzylvania wrote:Maybe the new thread's title should refer to the bombshell accusations of Bannon versus Trump. This is gonna leave a mark!

I doubt republicans will care. Trump could openly admit treason and theyd look the other way.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:34 pm

Arlenton wrote:I love the fact that Trump hates Bannon now. Every Republican should shun him for what he's doing.

Shun which one?

If two people backstab one another, who's the traitor?
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Camicon
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Camicon » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:35 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Arlenton wrote:I love the fact that Trump hates Bannon now. Every Republican should shun him for what he's doing.

Shun which one?

If two people backstab one another, who's the traitor?

Yes.
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ArUmdAUM
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Postby ArUmdAUM » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:35 pm

Arlenton wrote:Should just invade NK now TBH.

Should have done it a while ago actually.

i can't believe that i have to agree with austria-bohemia-hungary here but this is just part of the wild reckless thinking typical of americans who dont give a shit about non-whites dying lol
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:36 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:So, I don't really know economics, so I may be wrong, but doesn't the stock market going up really high also mean it will crash really low?

Not necessarily.

How the stock market grows and collapses depends on a number of factors and variables, speed of growth, stability, etc... (You can see this with Bitcoin, which is undeniably bubbling). It's very possible that you can have a strong/high economy that's also stable.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:36 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Arlenton wrote:I love the fact that Trump hates Bannon now. Every Republican should shun him for what he's doing.

Shun which one?

If two people backstab one another, who's the traitor?

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Internationalist Bastard
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:37 pm

New haven america wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:So, I don't really know economics, so I may be wrong, but doesn't the stock market going up really high also mean it will crash really low?

Not necessarily.

How the stock market grows and collapses depends on a number of factors and variables, speed of growth, stability, etc... (You can see this with Bitcoin, which is undeniably bubbling). It's very possible that you can have a strong/high economy that's also stable.

Ok, so do you think it will stay stable?
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:37 pm

ArUmdAUM wrote:i can't believe that i have to agree with austria-bohemia-hungary here but this is just part of the wild reckless thinking typical of americans who dont give a shit about non-whites dying lol

On the contrary, what about all of those who die under NK's regime? The famine in the 90s alone killed more than the entirety of the Korean War. What about all of those who could die in the event a serious nuclear power NK decides to flex nuts?

It would have been better to pay a smaller, more immediate cost than to put it off like this.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:39 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
ArUmdAUM wrote:i can't believe that i have to agree with austria-bohemia-hungary here but this is just part of the wild reckless thinking typical of americans who dont give a shit about non-whites dying lol

On the contrary, what about all of those who die under NK's regime? The famine in the 90s alone killed more than the entirety of the Korean War. What about all of those who could die in the event a serious nuclear power NK decides to flex nuts?

It would have been better to pay a smaller, more immediate cost than to put it off like this.


This^

Overthrowing the Kims in the 1990's would have been best.
Last edited by Washington Resistance Army on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:39 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Genivaria wrote:That would require an immediate response from us which might make China twitchy.

China has said multiple times that if NK shoots first, they lose there backing.

China is the only reason why NK even exists and they have grown to hate it.


Honestly, China annexing NK seems more plausible than SK doing the same, to me: they've got a much larger population, so can absorb those sorts of numbers more easily, and there's nobody likely to stop them.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:41 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:China has said multiple times that if NK shoots first, they lose there backing.

China is the only reason why NK even exists and they have grown to hate it.


Honestly, China annexing NK seems more plausible than SK doing the same, to me: they've got a much larger population, so can absorb those sorts of numbers more easily, and there's nobody likely to stop them.

and what makes you think China wouldn't launch nukes as well?

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ArUmdAUM
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:41 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Yes, quite the natty pin-striped suit.

I don't get the reasoning behind Kim. I mean, he's gotta understand that starting a nuclear exchange with the United States is just suicide by proxy.

North Korea is quite aware of that--North Korea's weapons exist as a security guarantee for the regime and a deterrent against US invasion.
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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:42 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Genivaria wrote:And we'd bounce back and we'd have multiple countries working together to put the situation right for the sake of regional stability that NOONE wants disrupted.
This isn't Syria we're talking about here, this is on the border of a UNSC member and a 'great power' if we're still using that term.
We DON'T want China's economy to tank, noone does.

Poisoning the South Korean economy, and the Chinese one by war and North Korean refugees will tank PRC's economy. Do you seriously believe that nobody is connected economically to what happens in South Korea?


SK is an utterly trivial percentage of the PRC's trade. They could lose it and barely even notice.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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ArUmdAUM
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Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby ArUmdAUM » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:42 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
ArUmdAUM wrote:i can't believe that i have to agree with austria-bohemia-hungary here but this is just part of the wild reckless thinking typical of americans who dont give a shit about non-whites dying lol

On the contrary, what about all of those who die under NK's regime? The famine in the 90s alone killed more than the entirety of the Korean War. What about all of those who could die in the event a serious nuclear power NK decides to flex nuts?

It would have been better to pay a smaller, more immediate cost than to put it off like this.

An invasion of North Korea would cause immense devastation to the Korean peninsula and potentially Japan and China as well. There is also potential harm for the US, although it would certainly harm the US economically. 25 million people live in the Seoul Metro Area which borders the DMZ.

North Korea possesses missiles and nuclear weapons which would wreck East Asia if used. Furthermore, an attack would absolutely wreck the US' relations with China, Japan, South Korea, and Russia. North Korea's weapons exist as a deterrent rather than something to be used to irrationally attack other countries.

This kind of thinking is why South Koreans fear Trump more than they do Kim Jong-un.
Last edited by ArUmdAUM on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:44 pm

I see the Mueller Probe is going quite well: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/mana ... itics.html

President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman sued special counsel Robert Mueller and the Justice Department on Wednesday, saying prosecutors had overstepped their bounds by charging him for conduct that he says is unrelated to Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. The lawsuit by Paul Manafort, filed in federal court in Washington, is the most direct challenge to date to Mueller's legal authority and the scope of his mandate as special counsel. It comes amid Republican allegations of partisan bias among members of Mueller's team, which for months has been investigating whether the Trump campaign coordinated with Russia to influence the outcome of the U.S. election.

Manafort was indicted in October on charges related to his lobbying work on behalf of a Russia-friendly Ukrainian political party. He has pleaded not guilty. He alleges in his lawsuit that the investigation into "decade-old business dealings" is "completely unmoored" from the mandate Mueller was given when he was appointed in May by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. "Those alleged dealings had no connection whatsoever to the 2016 presidential election or even to Donald Trump. Nor were they uncovered in the course of the Special Counsel's probe into President Trump's campaign," the suit alleges. The lawsuit also argues that Rosenstein's order appointing Mueller was overly broad and arbitrary.


Win or lose, the Mueller Probe is extremely controversial. And after the removal of Peter Strzok, who was blatantly biased, it shows that one can still support the FBI, and find the probe to be quite controversial. So, unless the DNC wants Trump in 2020, I strongly suggest that they focus on the issues, rather than the people. I'm willing to bet that Trump hopes that the opposite is true, since he loves getting down and dirty; it's his game, see the entire Republican Primary Debates for evidence of that.
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ArUmdAUM
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Postby ArUmdAUM » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:45 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Poisoning the South Korean economy, and the Chinese one by war and North Korean refugees will tank PRC's economy. Do you seriously believe that nobody is connected economically to what happens in South Korea?


SK is an utterly trivial percentage of the PRC's trade. They could lose it and barely even notice.

SK is where ~5% of China's exports go and where ~10% of its imports come from. That's not "utterly trivial."
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:46 pm

San Lumen wrote:and what makes you think China wouldn't launch nukes as well?

China's a rational actor. Their power is divided among a bunch of interconnected interests, not concentrated in a single somewhat unhinged autocrat.
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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:46 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Iraq in 2003? You do know we were in Baghdad within a month, right? That we didn't need an entire fucking army group to handle Bumfuckistan?

Do you even have a leg to stand on anymore?

You were in Baghdad within the month, and then? NATO utterly crushed Iraq in 1990, with such force that even the Soviet Union took note. Compared to Desert Storm Iraqi Freedom was a fucking whimper.


It's literally impossible to crush a country more thoroughly than overthrowing the government and setting up a puppet state in like a month, short of genocide. If the US needed more forces, it would have sent more forces. It didn't.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Petrasylvania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Petrasylvania » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:48 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Arlenton wrote:I love the fact that Trump hates Bannon now. Every Republican should shun him for what he's doing.

Shun which one?

If two people backstab one another, who's the traitor?

The Beast With Two Backstabs.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:49 pm

ArUmdAUM wrote:An invasion of North Korea would cause immense devastation to the Korean peninsula and potentially Japan and China as well. There is also potential harm for the US, although it would certainly harm the US economically. 25 million people live in the Seoul Metro Area which borders the DMZ.

North Korea possesses missiles and nuclear weapons which would wreck East Asia if used. Furthermore, an attack would absolutely wreck the US' relations with China, Japan, South Korea, and Russia. North Korea's weapons exist as a deterrent rather than something to be used to irrationally attack other countries.

This kind of thinking is why South Koreans fear Trump more than they do Kim Jong-un.

"They have nukes so the only thing to do is to back off and let them develop the delivery systems to reliably nuke East Asia so they can hold civilized nations hostage with their bluster. =^^^)"

Forgive me for not considering a nation that kidnaps directors from a nation giving it humanitarian aid to make movies for them a rational actor. NK acts on the whims of the Kims, and even stable individuals are, at the best of times, mercurial in positions of absolute power.

No one wants to die. I understand that. But all that's happening here is shifting the death to someone else - a citizen of NK, your children, grandchildren Japan in twenty years... it's trading SK and American/NATO lives for Japanese and NK lives.
Last edited by Conserative Morality on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:50 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
San Lumen wrote:and what makes you think China wouldn't launch nukes as well?

China's a rational actor. Their power is divided among a bunch of interconnected interests, not concentrated in a single somewhat unhinged autocrat.

and if a nuke is launched at Pyongyang how would they know it wasn't aimed at Shanghai?

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Washington Resistance Army
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:51 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:China's a rational actor. Their power is divided among a bunch of interconnected interests, not concentrated in a single somewhat unhinged autocrat.

and if a nuke is launched at Pyongyang how would they know it wasn't aimed at Shanghai?


...

Because Shangai isn't near Pyongyang?
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:51 pm

San Lumen wrote:and if a nuke is launched at Pyongyang how would they know it wasn't aimed at Shanghai?

Jesus Christ why are we launching nukes?
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Shofercia
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:51 pm

ArUmdAUM wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:On the contrary, what about all of those who die under NK's regime? The famine in the 90s alone killed more than the entirety of the Korean War. What about all of those who could die in the event a serious nuclear power NK decides to flex nuts?

It would have been better to pay a smaller, more immediate cost than to put it off like this.

An invasion of North Korea would cause immense devastation to the Korean peninsula and potentially Japan and China as well. There is also potential harm for the US, although it would certainly harm the US economically. 25 million people live in the Seoul Metro Area which borders the DMZ.

North Korea possesses missiles and nuclear weapons which would wreck East Asia if used. Furthermore, an attack would absolutely wreck the US' relations with China, Japan, South Korea, and Russia. North Korea's weapons exist as a deterrent rather than something to be used to irrationally attack other countries.

This kind of thinking is why South Koreans fear Trump more than they do Kim Jong-un.


This ^

Russia would view a nuclear attack on North Korea as a nuclear attack on Russia. A massive bombing campaign would ensure Russian Military Intervention on behalf of North Korea. And China would join. Additionally, the sheer devastation that would be caused by North Korea against South Korea and yes, Japan, would wreck the East Asian region for decades. This will be viewed by some as America's way to ensure economic dominance through military force, and both, Russia & China will retaliate accordingly. You'd be looking at starting another World War. Over "Best" Korea. It's absolutely insane.
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Salandriagado
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Posts: 17548
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:53 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:I don't even know what you're trying to say anymore. Probably something really stupid though.

The NATO in 2018 compared to the one in 1989 is a joke. An utter joke. None of the member countries can airlift or sealift anywhere without crying for America and even America can only do it with a few brigades. If war breaks out in North Korea the fighting will be mostly on ROKA because they are there, they're prepared and they haven't been busying themselves with such nonsense such as disarmament.


One carrier group plus one Ohio class sub would more more than sufficient to end the existence of North Korea. Maybe drop a brigade or two of troops in if you feel like getting some cool propaganda pictures with American soldiers in.


Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Shun which one?

If two people backstab one another, who's the traitor?

"Et tu Brutus?"
"Yes broth--"
"No really, Et Tu"
*Stabs Brutus while looking in his eyes*


*Brute
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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