NationStates

Shit is going to hit the fan in Spain, and when it does, we`ll seem like the culprits for supporting it

And here`s why:

Puigdemont`s entire party platform, when stripped of nationalist mysticism, can be reduced to "Hurr durr, gib muh bak muh muhney, Muhdrid!!!"

If Catalonia splits of from Spain, it is almost guaranteed that they will refuse to assume any part of Spain`s debts, in addition to hurting Spain`s income more than they reduce their expenditures.

This will obviously mean that the IMF, ECB and other international financial fiends will demand Spain up its austerity dramatically.
If this happens, Rajoy`s only viable option will be to bow down before his masters, and then blame Catalonia for everything.
If he by some miracle refuses to implement austerity, he will end up like Allende, and some new Franco will be put into power by the Eurocrats.

Either way, Catalonia will be strangled by a horrific blockade, or perhaps even invaded.
Either way, these brutal austerity measures will cause suffering, and spur on Basque ethnonationalism, violence against migrants, and every other manor of horror imaginable.

Slovenia thought it was going to save itself from Yugoslavia`s austerity by seceding, and look at what happened to them, and the rest of Yugoslavia.

Rajoy is detestible, but that doesn`t mean everything he is against is categorically perfect.
I am not asking anyone to submit to Eurocracy or to neoliberalism. I am just saying that jingoist secessionism is not the way we should be going about fighting these scourges. We need to thing about pan european, and global struggles against capitalism, not localist nationalist mysticism

What do you think NS?

I support Catalunya's independence, but it does not mean I have to stand by anything their goverment will do.

And after what has happened recently, the Spain-Catalunya realtions are unfixable anyway.

Yes, we must support Kosovo instead.

I think you should get a blog

Bakery Hill wrote:Yes, we must support Kosovo instead.

What, why? Kosovo is an even worse disaster. It`s an attrocity of Imperialism, it has little bearing on the topic.

Thermodolia wrote:I think you should get a blog

Why?

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:

Bakery Hill wrote:Yes, we must support Kosovo instead.

What, why? Kosovo is an even worse disaster. It`s an attrocity of Imperialism, it has little bearing on the topic.

Define "athrocity".

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:I think you should get a blog

Why?

Because this is extremely bloggy.

I agree with you on some points, but not on all. Whilst I am also opposed to Catalan independence they are other reasons for their actions, some of which are legitimate concerns with the current Spanish model.

Petrolheadia wrote:

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:What, why? Kosovo is an even worse disaster. It`s an attrocity of Imperialism, it has little bearing on the topic.

Define "athrocity".

Errr Kosovo is a western puppet state run by people who got rich by murdering Serbs and selling their organs.
It was established by foreign military occupation, and is sustained by the same occupation. Namely KFOR.

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:

Bakery Hill wrote:Yes, we must support Kosovo instead.

What, why? Kosovo is an even worse disaster. It`s an attrocity of Imperialism, it has little bearing on the topic.

If it wasn't for Belgrade's atrocities it might not even exist.

Bakery Hill wrote:

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:What, why? Kosovo is an even worse disaster. It`s an attrocity of Imperialism, it has little bearing on the topic.

If it wasn't for Belgrade's atrocities it might not even exist.

"Atrocities."

I really find this perspective interesting and new, not many people have brought light to this side of the issue which I appreciate. However, the right to self-determination and the authoritarian actions of the Spanish government mean that when it comes to the crunch most leftists will inevitably turn to independence. I view it like Scottish independence, sure I don't think it's a good idea for Scotland to secede from the UK because it can't sustain itself economically, but, if the majority support it, then any opposition to it would be seen as imperialist.

Bakery Hill wrote:

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:What, why? Kosovo is an even worse disaster. It`s an attrocity of Imperialism, it has little bearing on the topic.

If it wasn't for Belgrade's atrocities it might not even exist.

Don`t be naive. The ethnic conflicts in Yugoslavia were the direct result of western imposed austerity, and nothing else. What Miloshevich did is peanuts compared to the NATO bombing campaign.

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:

Bakery Hill wrote:If it wasn't for Belgrade's atrocities it might not even exist.

Don`t be naive. The ethnic conflicts in Yugoslavia were the direct result of western imposed austerity, and nothing else. What Miloshevich did is peanuts compared to the NATO bombing campaign.

Milosevic and his kind spat on Tito's legacy. He would have had them arrested for chauvinism and treason. Consorting with Cetniks, how low "Yugoslavia" fell.

Bakery Hill wrote:

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:Don`t be naive. The ethnic conflicts in Yugoslavia were the direct result of western imposed austerity, and nothing else. What Miloshevich did is peanuts compared to the NATO bombing campaign.

Milosevic and his kind spat on Tito's legacy. He would have had them arrested for chauvinism and treason. Consorting with Cetniks, how low "Yugoslavia" fell.

I never denied that.
But the reason that could happen in the first place were the cowards and traitors who bowed to the preassures of the IMF to impose austerity.

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:

Bakery Hill wrote:Milosevic and his kind spat on Tito's legacy. He would have had them arrested for chauvinism and treason. Consorting with Cetniks, how low "Yugoslavia" fell.

I never denied that.
But the reason that could happen in the first place were the cowards and traitors who bowed to the preassures of the IMF to impose austerity.

But that reasoning shouldn't lead to Greater Serbia.

Bakery Hill wrote:

Socialist Federative Slavia wrote:I never denied that.
But the reason that could happen in the first place were the cowards and traitors who bowed to the preassures of the IMF to impose austerity.

But that reasoning shouldn't lead to Greater Serbia.

Where exactly did I ask for Greater Serbia?

I think we already have a thread on this.